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speedheat

'Delhi Chalo' movement/farmers protest

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On 11/29/2020 at 5:46 PM, speedheat said:

Government should work on better communication at ground level only addressing through man ki baat(nonsensical) won't help.
Need to be cautious here this may expand  into riots like CAA protest.
Situation should be tackled in better way before it destabilize law and order situation.

What's the incentive in doing so?

 

Current situation is beneficial for BJP also.

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1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Shoma Chaudhury's interview with ag economics expert Devinder Sharma.  Very eye-opening - it has started to move my needle a bit on this issue. 

 

Gist:  All 22-23 major crops (not just rice and wheat) must receive MSP support.  MSP should be the law.  Corporates can enter the market, but only above the floor MSP.  

 

 

FCI is already in the hole by 3 lakh crores. its an unsustainable exercise.

Edited by FischerTal
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1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

Need better response from government. Amit Shah should come out and talk to people or Modi.

 

Leadership required. Sitting inside won't help. 

 

the other side wants to repeal all 3 farm bills. that's simply not going to happen. they were called for talks but they refused to budge from their stand. 

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what is MSP, every year govt hikes MSP to please the farmer's lobby. how can you legislate what is an administrative decision? 

 

might I add, Punjab and Haryana have a similar procurement path. if they do not find a good price at the Mandis, they expect the FCI to procure at MSP. this is an unsustainable exercise when the farmers do not want to yield to any of the govt demands. thats why decision has come in to bring private players. 

Edited by FischerTal
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For more info.https://theprint.in/economy/in-5-years-of-modi-rule-food-corporation-of-indias-debt-tripled-to-rs-2-65-lakh-crore/301887/

 

In 5 years of Modi rule, Food Corporation of India’s debt tripled to Rs 2.65 lakh crore

 

 

 

 

The food subsidy bill has been on the rise on account of multiple factors. The implementation of the National Food Security Act, 2013, increased the number of beneficiaries while reducing the sale price of rice and wheat. At the same time, procurement prices have been on the rise with higher minimum support prices and rising procurement by the FCI.

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4 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

what is MSP, every year govt hikes MSP to please the farmer's lobby. how can you legislate what is an administrative decision? 

 

might I add, Punjab and Haryana have a similar procurement path. if they do not find a good price at the Mandis, they expect the FCI to procure at MSP. this is an unsustainable exercise when the farmers do not want to yield to any of the govt demands. thats why decision has come in to bring private players. 

This is as complex as it gets.  Farmers in other parts are not so agitated because they are going to benefit from the new laws.  But, based on what Devinder Sharma is saying in that interview, MSP was required for rice and wheat to incentivize farmers and bring the country to self-sufficiency in the 60s and 70s.  Which it did.  But is it obsolete now?  What happens if MSP is not offered?  

 

Another point DS makes has got me to rethink my position on development.  In the US, 2% of the population farms and feeds the rest.  In India, 50% of the people are in some way involved in agriculture.  My position has always been that we must bring this down by increasing efficiency and consolidation, so labour requirement is lower and people are not tied to farm labour.   And that these new bills encourage that.  But DS says, if you bring in efficiency and less labour requirement, where will they go?  It's a chicken-egg story.  If you are going to increase ag efficiency, you must simultaneously invest in providing other opportunities for the displaced labourers.  But is the government ready to do that?

 

 

   

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7 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

This is as complex as it gets.  Farmers in other parts are not so agitated because they are going to benefit from the new laws.  But, based on what Devinder Sharma is saying in that interview, MSP was required for rice and wheat to incentivize farmers and bring the country to self-sufficiency in the 60s and 70s.  Which it did.  But is it obsolete now?  What happens if MSP is not offered?  

 

Another point DS makes has got me to rethink my position on development.  In the US, 2% of the population farms and feeds the rest.  In India, 50% of the people are in some way involved in agriculture.  My position has always been that we must bring this down by increasing efficiency and consolidation, so labour requirement is lower and people are not tied to farm labour.   And that these new bills encourage that.  But DS says, if you bring in efficiency and less labour requirement, where will they go?  It's a chicken-egg story.  If you are going to increase ag efficiency, you must simultaneously invest in providing other opportunities for the displaced labourers.  But is the government ready to do that?

 

 

   

 

can they not diversify their horticulture portfolio? once you get addicted to one thing, its hard to make that habit go.

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9 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

 

can they not diversify their horticulture portfolio? once you get addicted to one thing, its hard to make that habit go.

Do you mean supplement or supplant with horticulturals?   If you mean supplant, then who will grow staples?  It is not like you can simply move wheat and specific rice-varieties cultivation to other parts of the country.  It has to be N/NW farmers who grow those.  

 

Added in edit:  There are other experts who think the centre should just offer guidelines, and this should be handled at the state level because of the geographical and marketplace uniqueness of each crop.  

Edited by BacktoCricaddict
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17 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

This is as complex as it gets.  Farmers in other parts are not so agitated because they are going to benefit from the new laws.  But, based on what Devinder Sharma is saying in that interview, MSP was required for rice and wheat to incentivize farmers and bring the country to self-sufficiency in the 60s and 70s.  Which it did.  But is it obsolete now?  What happens if MSP is not offered?  

 

Another point DS makes has got me to rethink my position on development.  In the US, 2% of the population farms and feeds the rest.  In India, 50% of the people are in some way involved in agriculture.  My position has always been that we must bring this down by increasing efficiency and consolidation, so labour requirement is lower and people are not tied to farm labour.   And that these new bills encourage that.  But DS says, if you bring in efficiency and less labour requirement, where will they go?  It's a chicken-egg story.  If you are going to increase ag efficiency, you must simultaneously invest in providing other opportunities for the displaced labourers.  But is the government ready to do that?

 

 

It is a perfect catch-22. For us to provide massive employment opportunities to our youth, we need to bring our economy much above $4-5T. To sufficiently support our social policies we need our economy quite robust. If we continue spending on such social policies with weaker economy then it will massively impact our ability to become a stronger nation. It is not sustainable long term. For past 2-3 decades no attention was given to infrastructure, defense and research spending. Now things are turning around. There are numerous infrastructure projects in pipeline and they are tirelessly working to get as much investments and get these projects going.

 

The Pandemic, border issues, geopolitics and internal unrest caused by the entire political spectrum of opposition are not easy obstacles for any government to overcome. Just take Anti - CAA protest as an example. How can any country progress when we have evil minded opposition. For them their country matters nothing next to their personal political gains.  

 

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No matter how much protest opposition librandu can instigate nothing will happen, even though some of the protestors have genuine concerns. In past few years oppositions are acting like foreign invaders thankfully public are not that blind like past. Now these kind of politically motivated protest would only create blind faith in government among masses even though the protest is for right cause to some extent.

Edited by raki05
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22 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Crass.

 

But shouldn't take away from some legitimate issues that Punjab/Haryana farmers have and GOI must listen to.   It us unfortunate that politicians get in the way and obscure the actual message.  Time to tune them out.  

What legitimate bro?  I’m bit confused? Last year they were asking to close APMC and Aarthiyas (Blood sucking Middlemen, who are very powerful and have huge political clout as they fund political parties)...

 

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11 minutes ago, asterix said:

What legitimate bro?  I’m bit confused? Last year they were asking to close APMC and Aarthiyas (Blood sucking Middlemen, who are very powerful and have huge political clout as they fund political parties)...

 

 

If you have time, watch Devinder Sharma's interview above.  There is also another entire thread about this issue on this forum.  

 

The main issue is that they are seeking guaranteed, legalized MSP procurement for staples like wheat and rice grown in N/NW India.  This is why the protests are restricted to those farmers.  Second, the fear of unregulated corporate influence is legitimate - abolishing APMC should not transfer power from one set of dalals to another. 

 

To me, the main issue is that there is not a one-size-fits-all solution.  Most farmers outside of P/H will likely benefit from the new laws.  But as with everything, there are trade-offs.  And P/H farmers may be the losers in this trade-off.  Considering how much we depend on them for staples, they must be listened to with apolitical ears.     

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43 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Crass.

 

But shouldn't take away from some legitimate issues that Punjab/Haryana farmers have and GOI must listen to.   It us unfortunate that politicians get in the way and obscure the actual message.  Time to tune them out.  

 

Rest of the country farmers are ok. Recently, a raithara prathibhatane was quelled in Karnataka. This is sponsored by opposition and foreign NGOs, just like anti-CAA protests. Now, every libtard is a farmer now, spouting misinformation. There is one guy shouting that their land will be taken away. WTH. This is turning out to be a free for all Biryani party , just like Shaheen bagh. All dadis craving for biryani are lining up again, in road kitchens that AAP has put out. They didn't care for migrant workers, but AAP is serving food for these hired-in protest farmers. 

 

 

 

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