Identify your 3rd openers in LOI and give them long run, Dont play musical chairs like we did with No.4

[Majestic]

Gill should be the opener. He is best when he makes use of powerplays. It is actually after powerplays that he slows down and by that time, Rohit starts accelerating fast. 

 

KL could have been the obvious third opener but if he bats at 5, there is some reliability in middle order alongside Pandya and he bats at a faster pace than when he opens the batting.

 

If Iyer does not become a long-term solution for India, then I will go with KL Rahul at 4, Rishabh Pant at 5 and Pandya at 6 with a top three of Rohit, Gill and Kohli.

 

I rated Pant highly but off late, he has been a massive disappointment. However, if he can be back to his best then that will be great for us.

[prudent_kreeda]

I am not able to comprehend  most of the opposition teams  now take our spinners to cleaners while our batsmen are not able to score even at 6 per over on an average .

Add to that they also get out to spinners .

India need to really dig deep and first identify real reasons for our 50 overs batting weakness and then start identifying the players who can help in solving those issues .

2  Major issues : - 

1. Same approach in opening PP  whether chasing or batting first and lack of aggression -  We need to find at least one opener who  shows intent to attack and can decently  attack from the start . When intent is shown you get some loose deliveries to exploit .

    The hunt for such a player should be a priority . to start with , try Shaw (when back in good nick),  Can  Samson & Ishaan  be candidates for that role . Worth a try.

    

2.  Keep a better run rate between 15 to 40 overs - This needs intent to get more  runs against spinners -  

       - Master sweep shots to exploit field restrictions - Most foreign players spoil plan of our spinners by sweeping & reverse sweeping and exploit field placements during 15-40 overs , while many of our batsmen get out while sweeping .( Case in point Gill & KL yesterday) .   It shows Indians need to practice , practice and master sweep shots both types  going forward .  This should be the option for batsmen who are not Power hitters .

    -   Identify  players who are good vs both spin & pace and can rotate strike very well and can change gear if possible  for #3 & #4.  Should be consistent  rather than high risk game  in general.  Gill & Virat can be a good bet . Since Virat can change gears later on , playing him at 4 will be  more productive as he also lends consistency in MO. 

          Ruturaj could also be groomed as a back up , Samson could be a candidate if he improves his consistency factor .  Even SKY  if  shows ability vs quality pace -   can be tested . 

     - Power hitters at no. 5 to 7 -  Need guys who  are good hitters .  -KL, Pant , Pandya  fit the bill .

    - BE flexible of batting order - Try to ensure Pandya & Pant face spinners more .

 

Even with  current players a bit more improvement in planning , execution & flexibility in batting order will make our batting better than today.

  

 

 

 

 

 

[Adamant]

17 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

@Adamant this is a captain fault who doesnt know how to solve a problem 

 

17 hours ago, SK_IH said:

I just don't want to see that Hacker Dhawan again in India's ODI squad. We have witnessed his best, now let's select someone who keeps team above himself. 

Gill should not be a backup opener, better player for no.3 or 4.

I think the role of a 3rd opener is quite ambiguous, lets say the 3rd opener performs really well but Dhawan does the same now when Rohit arrives ,the plan according to you will be to drop the 3rd opener, but people will raise questions on why he isn't getting selected in the team if he is better than some other player(lets say a middle order player Iyer)it would be unfair to kick this guy out just bcoz he is our 3rd opener.That will lead to the 3rd opener batting as a middle order player now.Back to square one.
The fact is that in order to replace Dhawan with another opener we need him to outperform Dhawan whenever he gets his chance,Kl rahul failed in doing so,same goes with mayank and shaw.
 

[Adamant]

I completely agree with posters  on this thread, our top 3 is somewhat is not as aggressive as eng, even when they go big they use up 60% of the overs and leave too little for the lower order.....BUT you missed one point here imagine India being 170-3 after 25 overs(which BTW is a great score) now imagine to which score will the trio of Jadhav,dhoni,,Jadeja will take us to.
The fact is that for the top three to play freely they need to have the backing of a good middle and lower order which we didn’t have since a long time, now it looks like our lower order problem is sorted courtesy Pandya and an improved Jadeja.Now just if we sort out our middle order problem i am damn sure our top 3 will match england's top 3 shot to shot

[Lone Wolf]

47 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

I am not able to comprehend  most of the opposition teams  now take our spinners to cleaners while our batsmen are not able to score even at 6 per over on an average .

Add to that they also get out to spinners .

India need to really dig deep and first identify real reasons for our 50 overs batting weakness and then start identifying the players who can help in solving those issues .

2  Major issues : - 

1. Same approach in opening PP  whether chasing or batting first and lack of aggression -  We need to find at least one opener who  shows intent to attack and can decently  attack from the start . When intent is shown you get some loose deliveries to exploit .

    The hunt for such a player should be a priority . to start with , try Shaw (when back in good nick),  Can  Samson & Ishaan  be candidates for that role . Worth a try.

    

2.  Keep a better run rate between 15 to 40 overs - This needs intent to get more  runs against spinners -  

       - Master sweep shots to exploit field restrictions - Most foreign players spoil plan of our spinners by sweeping & reverse sweeping and exploit field placements during 15-40 overs , while many of our batsmen get out while sweeping .( Case in point Gill & KL yesterday) .   It shows Indians need to practice , practice and master sweep shots both types  going forward .  This should be the option for batsmen who are not Power hitters .

    -   Identify  players who are good vs both spin & pace and can rotate strike very well and can change gear if possible  for #3 & #4.  Should be consistent  rather than high risk game  in general.  Gill & Virat can be a good bet . Since Virat can change gears later on , playing him at 4 will be  more productive as he also lends consistency in MO. 

          Ruturaj could also be groomed as a back up , Samson could be a candidate if he improves his consistency factor .  Even SKY  if  shows ability vs quality pace -   can be tested . 

     - Power hitters at no. 5 to 7 -  Need guys who  are good hitters .  -KL, Pant , Pandya  fit the bill .

    - BE flexible of batting order - Try to ensure Pandya & Pant face spinners more .

 

Even with  current players a bit more improvement in planning , execution & flexibility in batting order will make our batting better than today.

  

 

 

 

 

 

The point where we are not able to attack opposition spinners is spot on.  The lack of innovative strokes like reverse sweep is a drawback for our batting.  Even we suck on conventional slog sweeps.  This IPl I saw only one Indian batsman who was using slog sweeps effortlessly & he was Ishan Kishan.  Samson has more power to his game but he looks a Top 3 player to me..  But something to keep an eye on.  He needs to play all 3 T20 games vs Australia I think. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

 

I think the role of a 3rd opener is quite ambiguous, lets say the 3rd opener performs really well but Dhawan does the same now when Rohit arrives ,the plan according to you will be to drop the 3rd opener, but people will raise questions on why he isn't getting selected in the team if he is better than some other player(lets say a middle order player Iyer)it would be unfair to kick this guy out just bcoz he is our 3rd opener.That will lead to the 3rd opener batting as a middle order player now.Back to square one.
The fact is that in order to replace Dhawan with another opener we need him to outperform Dhawan whenever he gets his chance,Kl rahul failed in doing so,same goes with mayank and shaw.
 

 

time is coming to move on from dhawan , i u have to adjust him in middle when their is no vacancy or unless he is to good to sit out its a poor call

[Sooda]

It was harsh on Agarwal to be dropped after two matches where he had to force the run rate, chasing huge scores. He got decent starts too, poor shot in first odi tho. 

 

If we decided he was the first choice back up, stick with him for a long run. Yesterday could have been perfect for him to get a score, batting first with less pressure. Especially because we need to get some runs before the tests

 

 

[SK_IH]

9 hours ago, Vk1 said:

 

Considering the situation while playing the top 4 teams.. When Rohit is back, Gill @ 4 is likely to come at 210/2 in 37 kind of scenarios. TM would then prefer to promote HP/KL in such situations.. even when chasing you are mostly under pressure and Gill in middle order may not be ideal atm. These situations are one of the main reason why our number 4 hasnt settled.  Risky to play there without the power game and he isnt a busy player either.. someone who can take quick singles/  play cheeky shots 

You are short selling the potential of Gill. He can hit as well. He is not someone whom you have to accomodate at a particular spot to justify his place, he is much more than that. 

 

[Sooda]

On 12/2/2020 at 3:12 PM, sandeep said:

Rohit and Dhawan are still productive against top bowling although some folks will be crying for Dhawan's head already - which I do not entirely agree with. Yet.

 

In an alternate reality where we get to decide Indian lineup - I would have slotted in KL Rahul as opener and moved Rohit to #3, couple of years ago.  And given both openers the license to attack and not come under pressure if they put up a few low scores in pursuit of team goals.  Rohit anyway takes "a while" to get going, and is our best ODI bat, is good enough for the new ball and to stem the tide if an early wicket falls.   

 

But this lineup would mean that Kohli would have to move to #4. Which means that in a lot of games where he would normally come in at #3 and rack up gaudy big scores, those chances would reduce by a huge factor.  His personal stats would take a major hit.  As it is, he is already sharing the limelight with Rohit as India's premier batsman.  Why would he want Rahul to solidify himself and minimize his "stardom"?  Instead of making the most of an  absolute gem like KL Rahul, he was made to "wait" as reserve opener, then shunted down as "Finisher" -something that he doesn't really have the mindset for. Not only that, he has to keep wickets for 50 overs if he even wants to play as a regular in the white ball team. 

 

Imagine a 3 headed attacking monster of KL, Dhawan, Rohit up top with the license to attack.  KL has shown how destructive he can be.  He used to be test opener - he is good enough to face the new ball. You have an effective left-hander up top who is clutch in big games. And Rohit, given the luxury of 'getting in' is all-world as we know.  It instantly increases the probability of India crossing 350 more regularly on these types of flat tracks.  

 

And you also have a succession plan for a year or so from now, when Dhawan fades away - KL could become the senior opener, and then we could figure out who amongst the Shubman, Shaw and Samsons can step into Rohit's role when the time comes. 

 

I was advocating for such a lineup 15 months before the last ODI WC.  And I was ridiculed here for "messing with batting position" of our so-called best ODI batsman. 

 

 

 

I thought along very similar lines, the below was my preferred 11, and squad, in Jan 19 for the world cup :-P.  Thought KL could be a no 3 "pinch hitter" , Rohit needs to stay opener for me for what he can do when he bats all the way through, Shikar provides rapid starts and has something to offer in ODIs still for me. And Virat could anchor a muscular middle/lower middle order. Krunal was a left wing pick- I thought/think he can offer good economy with ball and decent lower order hitting, and thought he was better LOI option than RJ...but his batting is limited and Jadeja has strutted his stuff in ODIs in the last year and half or so ...

 

Shikar Dhawan

Rohit Sharma

KL Rahul

Virat Kohli

Hardik Pandya

Dinesh Kartik

Krunal Pandya

Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Kuldeep Yadav

Jasprit Bumrah

MOhammed Shami

 

YUzvendra Chahal, Ankit Rajpoot, Ambati Rayudu, Kedar Jadhav, Rishab Pant