Identify your 3rd openers in LOI and give them long run, Dont play musical chairs like we did with No.4

[Ankit_sharma03]

How to identify - 1st ask what does this batting lineup need ? 

Answer- Dasher opener 

 

Then identify such players and give them long run. For me Gill, Mayank dont provide much difference in tempo then our top 3 has already done but if they beileve anyone of them is the right guy then back him. 

Kohli biggest problem is he doesnt identify talent and then doesnt know if to back him or not.

He thought DK, rayudu, yuvi, raina, rahul , rahane all were no.4 players but didnt back them then coz he didnt identify what team needed and who serves the purpose so with their failures he started questioning their selection. Same he is doing with openers now

 

Musical chairs again 

 

• NZ series - Shaw and mayank 
• SA series- Shaw picked, mayank droped (covid happened , series cancelled)
• Aus series -now shaw dropped mayank picked, mayank dropped after 2 games

 

This was ideal time to identify 3rd opener as rohit n dhawan has been having injuries post Wc 

 

So its a simple process - identify what team needs and mark your players then back them to hill . We need to identify 3rd opener in both t20 and ODi and they can be different players 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Then identify such players and give them long run. For me Gill, Mayank dont provide much difference in tempo then our top 3 has already done but if they beileve anyone of them is the right guy then back him. 

Kohli biggest problem is he doesnt identify talent and then doesnt know if to back him or not.

He thought DK, rayudu, yuvi, raina, rahul , rahane all were no.4 players but didnt back them then coz he didnt identify what team needed and who serves the purpose so with their failures he started questioning their selection. Same he is doing with openers now

 

Musical chairs again 

 

• NZ series - Shaw and mayank 
• SA series- Shaw picked, mayank droped (covid happened , series cancelled)
• Aus series -now shaw dropped mayank picked, mayank dropped after 2 games

 

@Adamant this is a captain fault who doesnt know how to solve a problem 

[Ankit_sharma03]

dhoni ganguly use to mark their players and back them to insane lengths

[SK_IH]

I just don't want to see that Hacker Dhawan again in India's ODI squad. We have witnessed his best, now let's select someone who keeps team above himself. 

Gill should not be a backup opener, better player for no.3 or 4.

[Ankit_sharma03]

We need to look for a dasher specially how rohit n kohli pace their innings, mayank n gill dont give that tempo and if thats the route well then dhawan is fine and he is a leftie to 

 

Players we shud actually be looking at - Samson, Devdutt, shaw, pant, kishen .....they will be inconsistent but identify 1-2 and back them , if they dont work move on to next dont change the plan

[sandeep]

Rohit and Dhawan are still productive against top bowling although some folks will be crying for Dhawan's head already - which I do not entirely agree with. Yet.

 

In an alternate reality where we get to decide Indian lineup - I would have slotted in KL Rahul as opener and moved Rohit to #3, couple of years ago.  And given both openers the license to attack and not come under pressure if they put up a few low scores in pursuit of team goals.  Rohit anyway takes "a while" to get going, and is our best ODI bat, is good enough for the new ball and to stem the tide if an early wicket falls.   

 

But this lineup would mean that Kohli would have to move to #4. Which means that in a lot of games where he would normally come in at #3 and rack up gaudy big scores, those chances would reduce by a huge factor.  His personal stats would take a major hit.  As it is, he is already sharing the limelight with Rohit as India's premier batsman.  Why would he want Rahul to solidify himself and minimize his "stardom"?  Instead of making the most of an  absolute gem like KL Rahul, he was made to "wait" as reserve opener, then shunted down as "Finisher" -something that he doesn't really have the mindset for. Not only that, he has to keep wickets for 50 overs if he even wants to play as a regular in the white ball team. 

 

Imagine a 3 headed attacking monster of KL, Dhawan, Rohit up top with the license to attack.  KL has shown how destructive he can be.  He used to be test opener - he is good enough to face the new ball. You have an effective left-hander up top who is clutch in big games. And Rohit, given the luxury of 'getting in' is all-world as we know.  It instantly increases the probability of India crossing 350 more regularly on these types of flat tracks.  

 

And you also have a succession plan for a year or so from now, when Dhawan fades away - KL could become the senior opener, and then we could figure out who amongst the Shubman, Shaw and Samsons can step into Rohit's role when the time comes. 

 

I was advocating for such a lineup 15 months before the last ODI WC.  And I was ridiculed here for "messing with batting position" of our so-called best ODI batsman. 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by sandeep

[SK_IH]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

We need to look for a dasher specially how rohit n kohli pace their innings, mayank n gill dont give that tempo and if thats the route well then dhawan is fine and he is a leftie to 

 

Players we shud actually be looking at - Samson, Devdutt, shaw, pant, kishen .....they will be inconsistent but identify 1-2 and back them , if they dont work move on to next dont change the plan

My pick would be Kishan or Pant. I really want to see Pant opening in one of the seasons of the IPL. He has the potential to make use of field restrictions.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, SK_IH said:

My pick would be Kishan or Pant. I really want to see Pant opening in one of the seasons of the IPL. He has the potential to make use of field restrictions.

 

Same here my pick wud be pant, he now has seen the downwards phase which is when a cricketer matures. Also he is too good a talent to miss out on

[Straight Drive]

From what Kohli has played, the backup openers in his books are Shaw, Agarwal and Gill. All are being played in rotation basis.

[rkt.india]

One steady opener that will be Gill. One dasher Shaw or Kishan. Pant is another option but would like him in MO at 5 in future.

 

Rohit- Dhawan not going anywhere for the time being.

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

From what Kohli has played, the backup openers in his books are Shaw, Agarwal and Gill. All are being played in rotation basis.

Rotation bhi nahin ye to musical chairs hai.

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

this happens to everyone at start

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

this happens to everyone at start

How many games did any of these guys get back to back.  Gill was given one game in NZ, and then yanked.  

 

Out of the 3, Gill looks the most 'ready' - Agarwal seems to have lower ceiling, but credit to him, he's broken such perceptions in tests already. Shaw has shown that his high-risk game carries a lot of inconsistency and that's not  going to cut it for an Indian top order slot.  

 

But regardless, my problem is with the way these young players are being auditioned.  This is not the way. Back to the days of Ganguly's early captaincy - players need 5-7 games in a row for us to assess them.  You can't do this silly 1 odd game here and there nonsense and then chuck them aside.   You only do this if you are not interested in giving them a fair chance.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

How many games did any of these guys get back to back.  Gill was given one game in NZ, and then yanked.  

 

gill got 2 in NZ 

Shaw n Mayank - 3-3 in NZ

Mayank - 2 here 

Gill - 1 

 

 

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Out of the 3, Gill looks the most 'ready' - Agarwal seems to have lower ceiling, but credit to him, he's broken such perceptions in tests already. Shaw has shown that his high-risk game carries a lot of inconsistency and that's not  going to cut it for an Indian top order slot.  

 

But regardless, my problem is with the way these young players are being auditioned.  This is not the way. Back to the days of Ganguly's early captaincy - players need 5-7 games in a row for us to assess them.  You can't do this silly 1 odd game here and there nonsense and then chuck them aside.   You only do this if you are not interested in giving them a fair chance.  

 

had ganguly been captain he wud have marked his player and given him 3-4 series. By this even im not sure whom they looking at what they are looking at if they are looking at mayank n gill well then whats wrong with dhawan coz he bats at same tempo and add to it he is a leftie

 

[chewy]

Has to be Pant, this guy was brilliant in Tests.

 

If he is good in Tests and has the strike rate  then he is good enough for pyjama cricket.

 

Unbelievable he is not in ODI XI right now. 

 

Pant has to open, both in ODIs and T20s.

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, chewy said:

Has to be Pant, this guy was brilliant in Tests.

 

If he is good in Tests and has the strike rate  then he is good enough for pyjama cricket.

 

Unbelievable he is not in ODI XI right now. 

 

Pant has to open, both in ODIs and T20s.

He's a lefty - that helps his case as a Dhawan replacement.  

 

I'd like to see KL and Pant open in T20s.  With Virat/Samson at #3 and 4. 

[Prabhdeep Singh]

It is kind of obvious.

 

The third opener should be KL Rahul.

 

If you can't replace S Dhawan at the moment and want to play KL Rahul go for the following line up, bearing in mind that the next world cup is in India.

 

R Sharma

S Dhawan

KL Rahul

V Kohli

S Iyer

H Pandya

R Jadeja

R Ashwin

B Kumar

M Shami

J Bumrah

 

Both KL Rahul and R Sharma batting together in Indian conditions is oppositions nightmare.

 

A lot of batting in the line up above, also 6 bowlers.

 

V Kohli is not at the same level he has been in the past at no 3.

 

If you want a squad opener who is attacking it should be P Shaw, S Gill seems more of middle order candidate who is a controlled batsmen.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Prabhdeep Singh

[Vk1]

6 hours ago, SK_IH said:

I just don't want to see that Hacker Dhawan again in India's ODI squad. We have witnessed his best, now let's select someone who keeps team above himself. 

Gill should not be a backup opener, better player for no.3 or 4.

By the evidence of it, Gill doesnt have the power game yet, very risky to have him at 4 while Kohli is around..  for now Gill can either open or not play at all as par scores these days are mostly 330 

[SK_IH]

4 hours ago, Vk1 said:

By the evidence of it, Gill doesnt have the power game yet, very risky to have him at 4 while Kohli is around..  for now Gill can either open or not play at all as par scores these days are mostly 330 

I ll be disappointed if Gill takes the openers place. Need a freewheeling player at the top. Besides there will always be plenty of options for opener's slot but very few for middle order. Gill is quality & should be made use of in the middle order. In ODI cricket, his game is apt for a no.3-4.

Edited December 3, 2020 by SK_IH

[Vk1]

2 hours ago, SK_IH said:

I ll be disappointed if Gill takes the openers place. Need a freewheeling player at the top. Besides there will always be plenty of options for opener's slot but very few for middle order. Gill is quality & should be made use of in the middle order. In ODI cricket, his game is apt for a no.3-4.

 

Considering the situation while playing the top 4 teams.. When Rohit is back, Gill @ 4 is likely to come at 210/2 in 37 kind of scenarios. TM would then prefer to promote HP/KL in such situations.. even when chasing you are mostly under pressure and Gill in middle order may not be ideal atm. These situations are one of the main reason why our number 4 hasnt settled.  Risky to play there without the power game and he isnt a busy player either.. someone who can take quick singles/  play cheeky shots