Who will be the next superstar batsman coming from India?

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

That was a useless match losing knock. Played like Misbah that day, no use of such runs. 

 

If you are referring to WC19 SF, the match was lost at 5/3 and then 25/4. Other guys combined to give Ind a chance 

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

If you are referring to WC19 SF, the match was lost at 5/3 and then 25/4. Other guys combined to give Ind a chance 

15 SF

[Lone Wolf]

I remember that WC 2015 SF game when Dhawan had provided us a great start & Aussies were somewhat on defence.  In walked lolli & that 1(13) almost killed the game right there.  Johnson owned him badly after all the trash talk in test series.  That Day I knew lolli would always be useless in crunch games.  Although he ended up becoming a superstar

Edited December 3, 2020 by Lone Wolf

[zen]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

15 SF

 

101/4 with little batting to come chasing 329 odd 

[Gollum]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

 

101/4 with little batting to come chasing 329 odd 

Never was his intention to win that match. Just make the margin of defeat look closer on paper. A few late blows after tuk tuking, that MS-Rahane partnership was painful to watch. 2019 I can agree with you, not 2015, typical Misbah knock....There were bigger villains that day led by Kohli, sure, 1(13) after a pretty good start . 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Gollum

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Never was his intention to win that match. Just make the margin of defeat look closer on paper. A few late blows after tuk tuking, that MS-Rahane partnership was painful to watch. 2019 I can agree with you, not 2015, typical Misbah knock....There were bigger villains that day led by Kohli, sure. 

 

108/4 after 23 overs (RR 4.7 chasing 329) .... no batting to come(except Jadeja & Ashwin) .... For Dhoni and others, RRR > 8 for 27 remaining overs (not even 12-15 overs) in 2015 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by zen

[Lone Wolf]

The start by Dhawan was unreal while chasing in WC SF 2015..  This was the biggest failure of lolli & Rohit imo.. All they had to do was to secure a decent Partnership at a decent rate & target Watson,  Maxwell & Faulkner to make a game out of it.  Both  batted like WWE locker room superstars though

[zen]

After watching all the Indian "superstars" batsmen over the years, I have decided not to include any of them in my "Best" AT 11s (except may be Gavaskar in Tests)

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by zen

[ShoonyaSifar]

5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

The start by Dhawan was unreal while chasing in WC SF 2015..  This was the biggest failure of lolli & Rohit imo.. All they had to do was to secure a decent Partnership at a decent rate & target Watson,  Maxwell & Faulkner to make a game out of it.  Both  batted like WWE locker room superstars though

Starc and Hazlewood were nearly unplayable in their opening spell especially Hazlewood. Sharma was nearly gone in the first over, Dhawan was dropped. Then Dhawan cashed in vs Faulkner, blitzed 34-35 runs in 2 overs only for Hazlewood to comeback and kill the excitement. That chase was dead in the new ball spell. Was at most a 265-270 pitch.

 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Just now, zen said:

After watching all the Indian top order "superstars" over the years, I have decided not to include any of them in my "Best" AT 11s (except may be Gavaskar in Tests)

 

Happens when you see the player you don't like,  goes onto hit 5 100s in one WC despite all your prophecies and cherry picked stats.

[Sandeep99]

1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

Agree 100%.

1. Find an opener who gets 30-35 runs on an average  at 110-120  strike rate .

2. Find  a # 4  who can bat around 100 strike rate  but consistent .

3.  Have 5 & 6 who can bat > 120 strike rate and average around 30+  with  at least 65% success rate .

 

Do we not have players who can be groomed for the above . I think we have .

 

a) Test Shaw, Samson /Ishhan for that opener spot.

b)  Test Gill , Padikkal , Ruturaj  - Need a good player of spin but good vs pace too , (Iyer , SKY  for  #4 - both have some issues though . )

c)   5 & 6 - have already KL, Hardik. Add Pant in the mix.

Add to this Rohit & Virat - who change gears as they  progress.

 

 

 

 

I was talking about LOIs bhai.. Ishan or Samson don't have that good of a first class record..

[ShoonyaSifar]

39 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

India was pretty much guaranteed a semi spot in 2015. We were coming off of the 2011 high and had massive preparations and Kohli/Rohit were in red hot form.

 

We also had a crazy chasing record.

 

The fact that we lost is a testament to players giving up and not fighting. Kohli/Rohit knew they will face NO repercussions to their spot if they fail.

 

Yet you throw a Manish Pandey, Tiwary, Pant, Samson, Gill, Mayank etc. to the wolves on do or die matches for them and discard if they fail. How is this fair?

 

How are we going to win any tournaments when the newcomers have stress every game while the main players fail in clutch situations?

That I totally agree with. The abysmal record in semis and finals will remain a dark spot for Rohit and Kohli.

 

The reply you quoted is with a certain context of endless threads opened by @zen before the WC targeting Rohit Sharma

[raki05]

13 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

his same tournament Rohit hit 5 centuries to pad his record which are meaningless as India was going to semis anyways whether he hit those centuries or not.

If this is how you analyze thing .... you are going on right track. Great Analysis btw did you happen to watch first 2 matches of the recent odi series.

[raki05]

13 hours ago, zen said:

Not accurate as I can immediately think of 2015 WC SF where he made 65 (highest score for Ind). 2019 SF as well 

And how it make difference on india success... Those are the most meaning less runs anyone can ever score. At which point of  his inning it looks like he can win it for India. In 2015 i suppose he hide behined Raina and in 2019 he came at 7 down to pad his tats.

[raki05]

11 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

India was pretty much guaranteed a semi spot in 2015. We were coming off of the 2011 high and had massive preparations and Kohli/Rohit were in red hot form.

 

We also had a crazy chasing record.

 

The fact that we lost is a testament to players giving up and not fighting. Kohli/Rohit knew they will face NO repercussions to their spot if they fail.

 

Yet you throw a Manish Pandey, Tiwary, Pant, Samson, Gill, Mayank etc. to the wolves on do or die matches for them and discard if they fail. How is this fair?

 

How are we going to win any tournaments when the newcomers have stress every game while the main players fail in clutch situations?

How you so sure india was pretty much guaranteed.. Rohit floped in Afg match and your sooperstar dhoni played 46th over maiden and palyed at 50 sr and we marginally won that match. Pretty much gauranteed nothing gauranteed until you score. I agree that Rohit and Kohli has laughable record in ko. But discarding rohit 5 centuries saying inida was pretty much guaranteed on sf inspite of seeing sf and afg match where rohit failed and how middle order shits in their pants forget sf even against afg , why not superstar middle order crossed even 250. When you know you jadhav,shankar and dhoni in mo inspit of that if you say that withour rohit 5 century we werer gauranteed that's just your anger of his failure in important ko. 

[raki05]

2 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

This is the same case you will make in T20 WC and also the next 50 overs WC.

 

You will say "at least we won tight games with AFG, SL, BANG with Rohit and Kohli centuries". As long as there are defenders like this we will never win major cups as all Rohit and Kohli have to do is just do enough in group stages against minnows and fail in knock outs and they will still be lauded and middle order will be blamed.

After 2007 debacle Indian public took cricketers to the cleaners and it produced 2011. We have to do the same thing again.

Look at knock out stats of Rohit it's pathetic. Compare it to a Ponting, Gilchrist, Graeme Smith, Root or anyone in the opening/top 3 and you will see he is just not a clutch player. Same with Kohli.

 

We had same issue with Sachin but our team sucked when he was playing so at least we can excuse him for not winning more matches in his prime. But if Kohli/Rohit don't perform in must win knockouts they are of no good use -as they have been hogging the limelight and their spots for better part of a decade.

How many time i or anyone say to make you realize that they are pathetic in ko. But telling his 5 centuries were meaning less is downright nonsense statement. How come century against aus,sa,pak and eng were meaning less and against minnows. Look i don't deny they are bad in KO but your statement that without those centuries india were guaranteed in KO is OTT. 

[raki05]

2 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

The expectation is set when prime form batsman hog the balls the entire tournament exposing the middle order. If such players fail in knockouts - it's not the fault of middle order but the in-form player not capitalizing on their form. It's that simple.

 

If those centuries were not scored, we would have at least had someone in middle order thrive.

 

You cannot have it both ways - you cannot call these two Kohli and Rohit ODI greats and best in the world when they fail in clutch movements. It's not even clutch games - there are countless times they gave their wicket away over the past 5 years without seeing the game through.

Where did i say rohit and kohli great. You keep blabring same thing again and again.... WC are not the place to fail at top order so that middle order get chance . that you should do in biletral. So according to you rohit should have failed so that super, jadhav,shankar and dhoni would have get chance to hone their skill. Barring Shankar isn't Jadhav and Dhoni playing since eternity. KO failure would always be a blot on Rohit/Kohli but saying rohit 5 century in wc against pak,sa,eng.aus were useless and meaningless is equally pathetic. Our middle order were flop coz of kohli captaincy as he and top 3 batted in meaningless biletral to boost their stats where new guy would have tried and also the musical chair which he did post ct 17 debacle in MO.