White ball spin options

[Gollum]

Jaddu has declined massively, better batsman these days but barely a 0.5 bowler. After flopping in the 2017 CT, he was persisted with but no improvement (unfortunately for him even rules are tougher for finger spinners), last year or so he is averaging in the high 50s in ODIs and isn't economical either. Same story in T20s, yet always in first XI.

 

Chahal is even worse, offers nothing with bat or on the field, terrible performances after his 2017/18 highs. Was horrible in the WC SF, on the same pitch where Santner looked like an ATG. Since 2019 home series against Aus I can't remember him outbowling Zampa once. Even Lyon, Agar, Maxwell have made him look mediocre. Again more or less a permanent starter.

 

Sundar in T20s decent, nothing great. Don't mind if he is given a longer run but unless he improves his batting drastically I don't see him as someone who can be relied upon to win big matches. Looks like a much inferior version of Ashwin. 

 

Kuldeep I have always rated him highly but he can't seem to find favor with this TM. Was awful in the WC (like Chahal) but not given a consistent run. His mental troubles are often cited as a reason for keeping him out, yeah sure the IPL meltdown didn't make for good viewing but can that be a permanent black mark? What steps have the higher-ups taken to improve his mental conditioning if they have identified the problem? Would be nice if he can add 5 kph to his deliveries since the novelty factor is no more. Not handled that well by this TM, if we have to become world beater IMO he is key.

 

What should our path be going forward? '19 WC spin bowling display was the worst ever by any Indian pair. And getting outbowled by these Aussie journeymen, Santner/Sodhi (earlier this year) or even Rashid/Moeen so regularly is unacceptable. 2 out of next 3 ICC events are in India, we can't surrender spin advantage especially against Eng, NZ, Aus. 

 

I want Kohli to back Kuly and leave this Chahal obsesssion for a while. Jaddu even if he plays can't be relied upon to complete his quota.

 

In the immediate future keeping B2B T20 WCs in mind want us to develop and give more chances to:

 

Varun C...impressed by what I saw in the IPL. Mystery bowler and even top batsmen were finding it difficult to pick him. May not be a long term solution but as a surprise weapon (like Ajantha Mendis or Narine initially) can win us important games.

 

Shreyas Gopal.... Based on what we have seen in the last few years, decent bowling option and can bat. Won't read too much into this IPL, bad season happens to everyone. 

 

Rahul Chahar....No idea why he was dropped after just 1 T20I. Solid wristy option.

 

Murugan Ashwin...like Chahar, probably the 2nd best fielder (behind Jaddu) among Indian bowlers.

 

Tewatia/Krunal as possible replacements of Jaddu. Will wait for one more season of IPL (and SMA) when it comes to Tewatia.

 

The experienced Ravi Ashwin shouldn't be sidelined, much better in T20s than ODIs, variations vital in the shortest format and against a top side like Eng (many LHBs: Malan, Morgan, Stokes, Moeen, Curran) he will be a bigger threat than the other names here. Also has a very good WT20 record. 

 

Bishnoi still too raw and needs to develop. Only googly won't cut it at the highest level. Don't see him in 2021 edition but 2022 who knows? 

 

50 overs WC is still 3 years away, a lot will be clear by then. Do suggest all white ball options, but maybe more focus on T20s here. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Gollum

[prudent_kreeda]

No.1  priority - A mystery spinner who cannot be picked very easily. So Varun  for 2 T20WC without exposing him much atleast till 21 WC. 

 

No. 2 - A Leggie  as back up for Chahal  - Rahul Chahar & Bishnoi.

 

No.3 -  A  spinner with some hitting ability -  Tewatia /Krunal/Axar /Sundar

 

Anyone who can escape being smacked will make it . Wickets will come if they cannot hit you easily. You change the match with just 2 good overs in most of the T20 tight matches . 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

in t20 jadeja is the weakest bowler, he just doesnt know how to bowl in t20 

[sandeep]

Great question and thread.  

 

My choices lean towards prioritizing auditions for effective spinners who offer tangible value with the bat.   Shreyas Gopal, Chahar, the latter has shown to be nearly as effective as Chahal.  I'd want to see what he can offer.

 

Btw, I am not yet willing to write off Chahal.  

[Gollum]

Just now, sandeep said:

Btw, I am not yet willing to write off Chahal.  

He is just 30 and there may be 4-5 ICC events in the next 5 years, not writing him off. But putting him on notice might just spur him on, will do him a world of good with competition. Atm he is more or less a guaranteed starter and Kohli's BFF, maybe that comfort level is a reason for his stagnation/decline now that the novelty factor won't work to his advantage. For someone who offers nothing in batting/fielding departments, for someone who is strictly a white ball bowler (don't think he has ambition when it comes to FC), I expect him to do much much better especially since the 2nd spinner will mostly be an A/R for team combo reasons. 

[Gollum]

54 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

No.1  priority - A mystery spinner who cannot be picked very easily. So Varun  for 2 T20WC without exposing him much atleast till 21 WC. 

Yeah, Varun C is such an exciting prospect, our trump card for 2021 T20 WC!!!!!

54 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

No. 2 - A Leggie  as back up for Chahal  - Rahul Chahar & Bishnoi.

You think Murugan can compete for that role? 

54 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

No.3 -  A  spinner with some hitting ability -  Tewatia /Krunal/Axar /Sundar

Forgot about Axar. Great choice, has improved his 6 hitting ability and always an economical option in white ball cricket. 

 

[Serpico]

With his recent batting performances, Jaddu cemented his place in LOI teams I am afraid. Unfortunate that our management can't differentiate between different formats. Lets hope that Tewatia/Krunal/Sundar have monster seasons in next yr ipl so that they will get a look in.

 

With 2 more ipl teams coming in and mega auction likely to happen, indian spin talent will be spread thin among ten teams.. a lot of these spinners will not get the same support from other spinner in next season (krunal with rahul, axar with ashwin, chahal with sundar). This should put more focus on their individual merit

[Ankit_sharma03]

• Currently Rahul chahar is ahead of others , he shud have been on flight to Aus 
• Gopal is a very good t20 spinner but uder self doubts currently
• Varun.C shud definately be in mix for next t20 
• Kruna, Axar, Sundar, tewatia all shud be ahead of jaddu in t20 

[ShoonyaSifar]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

• Currently Rahul chahar is ahead of others , he shud have been on flight to Aus 
• Gopal is a very good t20 spinner but uder self doubts currently
• Varun.C shud definately be in mix for next t20 
• Kruna, Axar, Sundar, tewatia all shud be ahead of jaddu in t20 

Mayank Markande outbowled Chahar for India A but seems to have fallen out of favour suddenly. A brilliant prospect. Has better control than Chahar and perhaps is the biggest turner of the ball among all our leggies. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

52 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Mayank Markande outbowled Chahar for India A but seems to have fallen out of favour suddenly. A brilliant prospect. Has better control than Chahar and perhaps is the biggest turner of the ball among all our leggies. 

markhande was one trick pony - googly bowler

Chahar has height so gets extra bounce n much better leg break then anyone, also electric in field n can hold bat. 

[Gollum]

Sundar, Jaddu, 2 defensive finger spinners playing today. Mediocre, worrying signs for Team India. 

[Gollum]

8 overs, 1/86

 

Sundar because of his height is unable to give much loop, not much spin either, defensive L&L eliminating LBW, bowled modes of dismissal. Kohli's go-to new ball bowler but IMO needs more skills to succeed at that level, can't play as a spinner but only as an A/R with ability to tonk the ball at #7 or 8. Him playing on SC pitches still makes some sense, on Aussie concrete slabs? Still very young, hoping he justifies the faith shown by TM,. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Once again their spinners comprehensively outbowling ours. 

 

Sundar 2/34 in 4

Chahal 0/41 in 4

 

Swepson 3/23 in 4

Maxwell 1/20 in 3

Zampa 0/14 in 2

 

[Sooda]

I have been calling for  S Gopal to be included for a while now, been consistent in IPL for a few seasons though was disappointing this year. He bats too.

 

The same , to a lesser degree, holds true for Krishnappa Gowtham he is another option @Gollum..  Seems like a potentially decent T20 option, good striker of the ball... but selectors seem to view him as a 5 day player, been in a few A teams

Edited December 8, 2020 by Sooda

[Serpico]

It doesn't matter how many options we have. Jaddu has booked his spot with his batting. Unless he is moved to top order, we can only pick one other spinner. Its going to be chahal because he takes wickets now and then.. Unless one of the other spinners have monster season I don't see us trying anyone else

[prudent_kreeda]

i think again India is lagging behind in assessing the changing pattern . Need  wrist spinners who bowl 90+ K with accuracy & Zip and has good control over 2-3 variations.

Era of 80+K spinners may be over unless he is a very skillful and can deceive the batsmen often .

Most of the teams are moving in that direction . May be time we look for such kind of wrist spinners - Lets give a try to Rahul Chahar , Bishnoi  Even Tewatia once a while if he  

can maintain hitting skills , Axar too .  That all we have now. 

Varun  should not be exposed much and should be used in WC21 as his shelf life may be shorter..

 

This new headache is in addition to Poor PP play & inability of Indian batsmen to attack spinners .

 

With so may holes you cannot win major tournaments.