Riots in Red Fort is similar to US Capitol riots - Liberals were vocal then but quiet now?

[beetle]

5 hours ago, Khota said:

my great grandfather did not go to jail in British Raj to have China like nation.

Then you should try to look deeper into how the communists are behind these protests and their bigger plans. Communists who have their backers in china .

[beetle]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

 Delhi Police. they are mostly ridiculed, but they showed a lot of restrain against agitating farmers, with many policemen having grave injuries, some jumped for their lives from 20 ft from Red Fort. I hope the FIRs are converted to criminal offences.

 

 

 

 

Delhi police has shown extreme restraint. They were told to hold back. It was hard to watch them being hit,chased and even the murderous attempts to run them over. 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

When were PSU employees ever told that they will lose everything??

When were farmers ever told that they will lose everything, in these new laws? Don’t give your opinion, just be specific to laws. You are repeating the same in 93 pages with no specific information. In these laws, point to me to a FACT, that farmers are told that they will lose everything, so their protest is legit? 

Edited January 28, 2021 by coffee_rules

[LordPrabhzy]

22 minutes ago, beetle said:

Delhi police has shown extreme restraint. They were told to hold back. It was hard to watch them being hit,chased and even the murderous attempts to run them over. 

 

I really hoped live ammunition was fired in response.. once you chose anarchy and violence against law enforcement you lose your democratic right to protest. regardless of what religion or community you come from. Hindu or sikh or muslim.. no distinction

[beetle]

3 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

I really hoped live ammunition was fired in response.. once you chose anarchy and violence against law enforcement you lose your democratic right to protest. regardless of what religion or community you come from. Hindu or sikh or muslim.. no distinction

No one knew it would turn out like this.

Before 26th..they were farmers. Our own people and even if people did not agree with them or their protest,there was not much bad feelings for them . There was an emotional connect and that is the reason the police had to be lenient . But now things are no longer same.

They are goondas ...the emotional connect has given way to extreme anger and outrage . Such disrespect on a national day . They should now be treated like rioters and anti  national elements.

 

They can go to hell. 

I hope the police gets their iron gloves on.

[LordPrabhzy]

54 minutes ago, beetle said:

No one knew it would turn out like this.

Before 26th..they were farmers. Our own people and even if people did not agree with them or their protest,there was not much bad feelings for them . There was an emotional connect and that is the reason the police had to be lenient . But now things are no longer same.

They are goondas ...the emotional connect has given way to extreme anger and outrage . Such disrespect on a national day . They should now be treated like rioters and anti  national elements.

 

They can go to hell. 

I hope the police gets their iron gloves on.

 

I think everyone knew.. after anti CAA riots this was a template which was going to be used.

 

On the borders they could not do much but once they were allowed inside Delhi, it was a pre planned act. The fact that the organisers are blaming gov infiltrators for the ruckus because the police showed restraint ( Deep  Sidhu is BJP mole etc) bit imagine if the police didnt and hundreds of people were shot, the whole narrative would have shifted to Gov fascism and police brutality.... its a well oiled machinery to change narrative as an when required. The gov needs to gull dictator mode on any anti national asshole from day one. I dont even care now.

[Khota]

6 hours ago, beetle said:

How are the farmers losing everything ?

Kuch bhi...they have their land,they have the right to grow and the right to sell in the open market to whom they want .

 

Govt us not a  buyer or seller. It us not a govt's job to do that . 

For the millionth time, farming is not a free market economy. It is well regulated all over the world.

[Khota]

6 hours ago, beetle said:

Then you should try to look deeper into how the communists are behind these protests and their bigger plans. Communists who have their backers in china .

There may be some and I belive it but it is pre dominantly poor farmer on the forefront.

[Khota]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

When were farmers ever told that they will lose everything, in these new laws? Don’t give your opinion, just be specific to laws. You are repeating the same in 93 pages with no specific information. In these laws, point to me to a FACT, that farmers are told that they will lose everything, so their protest is legit? 

No the law does not say thatthey will ose everything. If implemented the waythey plan to they will lose everything. Why do they need these laws? If private players are so good, nothing is stopping them from buying it from farmers even under the existing laws.

[coffee_rules]

32 minutes ago, Khota said:

No the law does not say thatthey will ose everything. If implemented the waythey plan to they will lose everything. Why do they need these laws? If private players are so good, nothing is stopping them from buying it from farmers even under the existing laws.

Phir wohi, who said that if they are implemented, farmers will lose everything? Farmers have a choice to sell or not. To give for contract farming or not. Now, explain how will they lose everything if they are implemented? 

[Yoda-esque]

Phir wohi, who said that if they are implemented, farmers will lose everything? Farmers have a choice to sell or not. To give for contract farming or not. Now, explain how will they lose everything if they are implemented? 

He has no answers

[Yoda-esque]

Btw,why are these so called dicks driving tractors made by corporates like john deere and mahindra?

Itna hi anti corporates hai,tou come in bullock carts

[Khota]

6 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Phir wohi, who said that if they are implemented, farmers will lose everything? Farmers have a choice to sell or not. To give for contract farming or not. Now, explain how will they lose everything if they are implemented? 

Because govt. support will go away. Private companies will exploit the situation. Private companies can still go and buy but why dont they?

[coffee_rules]

2 minutes ago, Yoda-esque said:

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Phir wohi, who said that if they are implemented, farmers will lose everything? Farmers have a choice to sell or not. To give for contract farming or not. Now, explain how will they lose everything if they are implemented? 

He has no answers

I want to indulge one last time. But then I know it’s futile as his favorite politician is Kejriwal 

[Yoda-esque]

I want to indulge one last time. But then I know it’s futile as his favorite politician is Kejriwal 

Don't waste your time on tinheads.These brainless *ers are still not seeing the real agenda or are doing this on purpose.Either way, they are idiots

 

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

Because govt. support will go away. Private companies will exploit the situation. Private companies can still go and buy but why dont they?

Have you read the regulatory clauses in these laws? Still there are many farming commissions, independent analyzers, activists and policy influencers to right the wrongs of any implementation. Case in point 1991, the same bogeyman of evil corporations taking over were spread since the 40s , in journalism, in society , in movies. Writing and literature. You are stuck in the stories of Naya Daur, where there is a competition between a motorized bus and a cycle rickshawwallah. Without capitalism, there is no growth. Still there needs to be checks for predatory hawks and that is a job of all, government, associations, unions. Activists, judiciary. The need for these laws are seen by rest of the country except for vested interests in PH

[Khota]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Have you read the regulatory clauses in these laws? Still there are many farming commissions, independent analyzers, activists and policy influencers to right the wrongs of any implementation. Case in point 1991, the same bogeyman of evil corporations taking over were spread since the 40s , in journalism, in society , in movies. Writing and literature. You are stuck in the stories of Naya Daur, where there is a competition between a motorized bus and a cycle rickshawwallah. Without capitalism, there is no growth. Still there needs to be checks for predatory hawks and that is a job of all, government, associations, unions. Activists, judiciary. The need for these laws are seen by rest of the country except for vested interests in PH

But these laws have been implemented in Bihar and they have not improved their income.

 

No one believes in private enterprise more than I do but I am for stopping waste. These farmers are barely making 10,000 pm and they see that going down without support.

 

Modi could have handled it a lot better. He should have build a consensus rather than forced it with voice vote. Knowing him he will not back down.

 

If you care about true reforms involve farmers too which they chose not too. Between three of them (Modi, Shah and Tomar) they dont have one day of experience of farming. 

 

You want laws that last and not overturned if next goverment is different.

[dial_100]

One thing I want to clearly put down, without mincing words. I (and I am sure most have) personally have great great respect for Shri Nanak Saheb, Shri Guru granth saheb. I have been in langar, served in langers, donated to langars and I dont consider Sikh or panjabis any more or less Indians. We are proud of them and we always boast that we have a great Sikh community in India. I respect and totally humble down to sacrifices made by sikh and punjabi community for us, for India. Be it farmers producing food for us, or be it personnel working in forces and any other capacity.

 

The whole farmers agitation:

1. Whatever be the flag, there was no need to furl it on Lal Kila in the main spot.
2. There was no need to urinate in lal kila (disgusting video. Abusing)
3. There was no need to create ruckus in the premise of lal kila
4. There was no need to brandish all your weapons in any protest. These weapons is your Shan and please treat it that way and respect it by not brandishing it openly in the protest. Nobodies life was in danger to pull out weapons in this fashion.  
5. There was no need to brandish your heavy weight vehicles, the tractors, and use them as weapons. In all the democracies, the act of using vehicle in a group would be considered terrorism. 
6. There was no need to tarnish the beautiful day of Republic day.
7. There was no need to do ma/behan to PM or CM. (I know others do that too)
8. There was no need for any kind of violence during the march, protest or rally. (You cannot say we didnt do violence for 60 days if you end up doing so on the 61st day.
9. There was no need to enter in Delhi or bring 3-4 Lacs tractors to the rally.
10. There was no need to outright reject all the negotiations taking extreme position on this.

 

I had no idea that farmers who only earn 10k could afford to bring 3-4 lacs tractors to the rally. Utter disdain of public lives in delhi and surrounding areas. I saw many peaceful sides also but you cannot take 99 litter of pure drinking water and mix 1 litter poison in it and call it clean drinking water. So I am sorry but the rally, the protest, the march cannot be considered a peaceful one. You had everything going for you and government was willing to negotiate. I said in my previous post that if the farmer is poor and if it can be established, i feel government should go above and beyond to give them benefits, better MSP. But if the farmer is $hutiyes like those driving those tractors in the heart of India's capital and lakhpati jamindars/farmers, if they are as bad as corrupt politicians/bureaucrats, and chor businessmen, they $ucking shouldnt be given any subsidies or benefits. Pay bloody taxes. We need that revenue to feed poor.    

Edited January 29, 2021 by dial_100

[coffee_rules]

35 minutes ago, Khota said:

But these laws have been implemented in Bihar and they have not improved their income.

 

You choose the worst for your debate. Choose, MH, Kar or even Gujarat where private buyers compete with APMC like structures and people choose between the two. APMCs/MSP was not implemented as a state policy, in Bihar, as APMC is not a nation-wide federal law, it is administered by regions, crops, land values of the region, hence a state-mandated committee decides the MSP. The min price of some crops in Punjab is half of that in Haryana. This system is totally rigged by states' politics and individuals. Bihar's case is of Law and Order and feudalism, so Yadavism and aarajyakata has been ruling the farming sector. Same with Industrial sector too, read about the sugar mills problem in Bihar. It is a sorry state.

 

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No one believes in private enterprise more than I do but I am for stopping waste. These farmers are barely making 10,000 pm and they see that going down without support.

 

These laws will give an opportunity to increase their income, if implemented well. First the Bogeyman politics with rumor and fear mongering has to stop, it is all politically motivated.

 

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Modi could have handled it a lot better. He should have build a consensus rather than forced it with voice vote. Knowing him he will not back down.

Y

es, the government could have done a better job at communication, but that doesn't give a right to everybody to ask for repealing of laws.  Next Budget will be presented. We can't have people revolting because some changes were not done consulting them. Always, I repeat, always understand the politics behind all protests and riots.

 

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If you care about true reforms involve farmers too which they chose not too. Between three of them (Modi, Shah and Tomar) they dont have one day of experience of farming. 

 

Sharad Pawar is listed as a farmer in the election affidavit. He was for these farming reforms and wanted reliance to invest in MH. Now, for politics he is against it. These people (Modi, Shah) have experience in governance. If you are not a farmer, you consult experts, form committees, there are panel discussions with farmers before manifestos are formed,, they don't do it blindly, as you are imagining them to do.

 

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You want laws that last and not overturned if next goverment is different.

 

It depends on the next government if they have the numbers. In the present condition and the mood of the nation (as run by Rajdeep Sardesai's India Today poll), people in the nation still trust in BJP. We have to do it as no other choice is better for us, good or bad. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by coffee_rules

[dial_100]

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Edited January 29, 2021 by dial_100