Best Asian test team of all time?

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I would choose 2015 to 2021 because test matches are actually won by getting the opposition out twice.

 

With the introduction of Gill and rejuvenation of Pant and Jadeja ... our batting is looking good in 2021.

 

 

Yup. We might finally be getting into the next level. Let's see.

 

Tbh batting averages around the world have decreased. Right now only 3 people average 50+ (Kohli, Williamson, Smith), similar to the 90s (Sachin, Lara, Waugh). During the 00s each team had 3 guys averaging in the 50s.

 

If Gill and Pant average 45+ and Jadeja 40+ and the rest of the team perform like they have been, we'll be unbeatable.

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I would choose 2015 to 2021 because test matches are actually won by getting the opposition out twice.

 

With the introduction of Gill and rejuvenation of Pant and Jadeja ... our batting is looking good in 2021.

 

 

Our current bowling attack is awesome but you must factor in that batting standards have fallen down a lot. Adam Gilchrist a lower order pinch hitter in tests could also play long innings in tests like his 149* at Hobart against Wasim/Waqar/Shoaib/Saqlain, that was the quality of batting then.

 

Our present batting line up is little bit like Pakistan in 1990s, sometimes they score but also surprise with collapses.

 

Bowlers win you tests but bowlers cannot draw tests, only batsmen can do that. 

 

P.S.: By the end of this year, I think I will finally be able to decide if 2017-2021 is the greatest Indian test side of all time or not. We are playing England both home and away, very good tests!

Edited January 30, 2021 by MechEng

[KiraReturns23]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:49 PM, Harsh Thakor said:

Whatever the great achievements of Indian cricket in recent times I still maintain that the best ever Asian teams were the Pakistani teams of 1977-79,1987-1992 and 1996-99.India at it's best may have defeated Pakistan but overall it has not had as impressive test record overseas .True Pakistan did not win in Australia but remember the number of times it conquered England on their soil or drew with them in England.Morally it was Pakistan that won the test world championship title in the Carribean in 1988,when dubious umpiring decisions robbed them of a historic series victory.India has never beaten as powerful an English side as Pakistan did in 1987 or 1992 in England nor drawn a series with as good or beaten as strong a side in the Carribaen as Pakistan came so close to in 1988.I agree India drew with a powerful Aussie team down under in 2003-04 but it's bowling attack was not at it's best with Glen Mcgrath absent for 2 tests .In 1976-77 Pakistan drew with Australia at home and bad umpiring cost them a drawn rubber with West Indies.In 1992 and 1996 Pakistan beat strong Englsih teams with contempt and in 1998 drew a series agaisnt a powerful South African side away.Man to man Pakistan of 1999 was arguably even stronger than past top Pakistani teams.

 

Even at home I give Pakistan the marginal edge,even if India performed best ever by an team at home when beating Australia in 2001 and South Africa in 1996.

 

 

India's bowling was at it's best in 2018 in Australia followed by in Australia in 2007-08 or in England in 2014.Overall in terms of team balance India of 2002-2004 was the best ever Indian team.It's batting was very strong in terms of pure class or talent but still I feel the best Pakistani teams had more depth in 1977-79 and 1987-89.In terms of bowling attack even India's best did not match Pakistan in 1996-99 or 1986-88.The likes of Wasim-waqar-Saqlain or Wasim -Imran -Qadir made the Pakistani bowling attack one of the most potent of all time.Still India's batting depth of 1986-89 was in the same league as posessed by  any Pakistani batting line up.

 

No Asian team had the collective middle order bating strength as India in 2003-04 with the likes of Tendulkar,Dravid,Laxman, Ganguly and Sehwag or in 1994-98 with Tendulkar,Azhar,Sidhu,Ganguly and Dravid.

 

 

In terms of pure achievement India has not equalled Pakistan's achievements under Mushtaq Muhammad from 1976-79 or under Imran Khan from 1986-89.India won formal world championship status when top sides like Australia or South Africa wee in decline .Pakistan's 2-1 loss in the Carribean in 1976-77morally to me surpassed India at it's best in Australia and Pakistan in 2003-04.

 

In 1971 India reached status of unofficial test champions when most teams were in state of decline.Nevertheless did posess the most potent spin attack of all time and produced some truly cavalier performances.By a margin of a whisker I rate the Pakistan team of that era ahead led by Inthikab Alam.

 

 

If I had a gun on my head I would vote for Pakistan under Mushtaq Muhammad to be the best Asian team of all time.Just a whisker below would be Imran led leam of 1986-90 and a notch below Indian team of 2003-04.Imagine a combination of Majid,Zaheer,Sadiq,Asif,Mushtaq ,Raja and Imran with the likes of Wasim Bari batting last.I would rank this team ahead of Australia led by Greg Chappell later or maybe even South Africa under Grame Smith..The 1987 team blending the classical reverse swing of Imran and Wasim with the magical spin of Qadir.With Wasim and Waqar together .The 1987 -88 Pak team had the likes of Abdul Qadir batting last.In Javed Miandada and Salim Malik it had two of the best batsman ever in a crisis and in Imran it had close to the best ever skipper and all-rounder.Pakistan posessed a more deadly duo than Lillee-Thomson.

 

India had explosive talent in Zaheer Khan,Ishant Sharma,Jasprit Bhumra,Srinath,Kapil Dev,Bhuvanesh Kumar etc amongst pace bowlers but collectively it could never compare with Pakistan attack at it's best.What gave the bets Pakistani tames the cutting edge was the poise of their bowling attack,which propelled them to many a famous win.No doubt India's bowling attack of modern times is comparable to the best of all.

 

India never had as many genuine all-rounders as Pakistan in 1997 in the time of Azhar Mehmood.Abdur Razzaq and Wasim Akram.

 

Even at it's pinnacle India's batting in recent years comprising  of the likes of Kohli,Rahane Pujara,Rahul,Pant etc does not match taht of yesteryear's.Infact with the bowlers of today the 1987 Indian team could have given the best Paksiatn teams a run for their money.

 

 

 

My list in order of merit.

 

1.Pakistan of 1976-79

 

2.Pakistan 1987-89

 

3.Pakistan 1996-99

 

4.India 2003-04

 

5.Pakistan 1982-83

 

6.India 2018-2019

 

7.India 2010-11

 

8.Pakistan 1971-74

 

9.India 1971-74

 

10.India 1986-89

 

 

 

 

 

All your lists are pathetic but this one takes the cake. Why don't you move to phateecharstan if you are so much in love with their phateechar team, India's current team has won 2 test series in Australia, that alone puts it above all phateechar teams of phateecharstand

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

Our current bowling attack is awesome but you must factor in that batting standards have fallen down a lot. Adam Gilchrist a lower order pinch hitter in tests could also play long innings in tests like his 149* at Hobart against Wasim/Waqar/Shoaib/Saqlain, that was the quality of batting then.

 

Our present batting line up is little bit like Pakistan in 1990s, sometimes they score but also surprise with collapses.

 

Bowlers win you tests but bowlers cannot draw tests, only batsmen can do that. 

 

P.S.: By the end of this year, I think I will finally be able to decide if 2017-2021 is the greatest Indian test side of all time or not. We are playing England both home and away, very good tests!

 

 

It is true that our batting used to be on the weaker side a short time back.

 

But the maturing of Pant and Jadeja as batters ... the introduction of Gill ... Pujara scoring in another series in SENA ... to aid Kohli means that we have a good enough batting line-up now. 

[Tibarn]

What is exactly the difference between India 2018-19 and India 2020-2021? They are more or less the same team.

 

Anyway, it is them or India 2009-2010

[Gollum]

If we win in RSA later this year, do well in Eng (win/draw over 5 tests), we are undisputed #1 Asian side and 3rd greatest post WW-II side behind those fearsome WI and Aus teams. Definitely ahead of 2007-15 RSA. 

 

We are very much capable of achieving both, including series win in Eng (even Aus hasn't done that in a 5 test series for 2 decades!!!!). Selection, preparation, tactics, intensity must be spot on and fitness!!!!

[Gollum]

I think 2021 SCG test will be regarded as turning point in Indian cricket a few years down the line. This team's main flaw was pathetic 4th innings record, cost us so many wins in the previous SENA cycle. The foundation of Gabba win was laid in those 131 overs at SCG.  No longer mental midgets in 4th innings I hope. 2nd innings is the best time to bat in majority tests, so with a good 4th innings pedigree we can take toss out of the equation more often. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

I think 2021 SCG test will be regarded as turning point in Indian cricket a few years down the line. This team's main flaw was pathetic 4th innings record, cost us so many wins in the previous SENA cycle. The foundation of Gabba win was laid in those 131 overs at SCG.  No longer mental midgets in 4th innings I hope. 2nd innings is the best time to bat in majority tests, so with a good 4th innings pedigree we can take toss out of the equation more often. 

 

It will be the Kolkata 2001 moment for this side hopefully .

[Harsh Thakor]

On 1/28/2021 at 7:42 PM, Gollum said:

So India beat a weak English team 2-0 in 1986 but suddenly in 1987 they became powerful team when tamperers beat them 1-0. Peak Lahori logic. 

 

Remember England in 1987 had just won an Ashes series down under and was almost twice as good as in 1986 with players like Chris Broad in their ranks and Mike Gatting as skipper.

[Harsh Thakor]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:56 PM, MechEng said:

Pakistan produced quality test teams in 80s and 90s, but I never felt a sense of reliability or solidity whenever I watched them play.

 

They could pull off wins against top sides on occassions due to their bowling, but always unpredictable.

 

Nothing from Asia beats the solidity of the Indian batting line up in early to mid 2000s. Sri Lanka had their share of run machines, but scored mostly at home only. 

Were there achievements not phenomenal drawing in West Indies in 1988-1st team to do so since 1974.Also beating England in England and India in India.

[Harsh Thakor]

On 1/28/2021 at 7:50 PM, Gollum said:

Pak home record lol, couldn't even draw against Zim and Lanka (multiple times) after neutral umpires came into the picture. As if post-2012 India doesn't even exist. And obviously in OP's mind 2010-11 RSA tour never happened....

 

So much hyping of Pak's mediocrity. Worst thread ever on ICF, admins should delete this garbage, reflects poorly on ICF's standards. 

 

 

Is not overseas performance true criteria_Pakistan came close to beating powerful West Indies and Australian team sin 1976-77 .almost drawing 2 rubbers.India beat Australia but has never won in South Africa or for log in England.Even lost in New Zealand where Pakistan earlier triumphed many a time.Pakistan has much better record  in England.

[Harsh Thakor]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:14 PM, express bowling said:

 

 

Here are the batting and bowling averages of that England team of 1987 that Pakistan defeated.   

 

Batting averages ....

 

Bill Athey             22.97

Tim Robinson.    35.58

Mike Gatting.      35.56

Neil Fairbrother  15.64

David Gower.      44.25

Ian Botham.        33.55

Bruce French.     17.11

 

 

 

Bowling averages ....

 

Ian Botham.      28.40

John Embury    38.41

Phil Defrietas   33.57

Neil Foster.       32.85

Phil Edmunds  34.18

 

 

What a strong team. !!!!      

 

 

 

 

 

 

It had won the Ashes in previous summer which shows its talent.

[Harsh Thakor]

On 1/29/2021 at 11:20 AM, express bowling said:

Pakistan team of 1976 to 1979 in Test matches  ....

 

 

 

Win Loss Ratio ....  1.14

 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=won;spanmax1=31+Dec+1979;spanmin1=01+Jan+1976;spanval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=team

 

 

 

Only Away series Win against NZ  ( the only big player in that team was Hadlee)

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/team/series_results.html?class=1;id=7;type=team

 

 

 

Just 2 batsmen averaging 40 or more.

Just 1 bowler averaging 27 or less  

 

 

Drew with Australia in Australia and not very far from winning and morally drew with West Indies in the Carribean.Bad umpiring decisions robbed them of famous win in the 1st test.Batsmen like Javed,Majid,Raja,Asif Iqbal,Zaheer,Muhtaq made it a gerat side.How many teams have ever played as well against top West Indies or Australian teams?India may have drawn a rubber down under in 1980-81 but morally was beaten,with  a mere escape at Melbourne.

[deathmonger]

42 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Were there achievements not phenomenal drawing in West Indies in 1988-1st team to do so since 1974.Also beating England in England and India in India.

 

Ind drew as series in Aus in 03. Also beat England in England and Pakistan in Pakistan.

 

Current Indian team (the greatest asian test team of all time) cannot beat the no 1 team as it is the no 1 team.

[deathmonger]

40 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Is not overseas performance true criteria_Pakistan came close to beating powerful West Indies and Australian team sin 1976-77 .almost drawing 2 rubbers.India beat Australia but has never won in South Africa or for log in England.Even lost in New Zealand where Pakistan earlier triumphed many a time.Pakistan has much better record  in England.

overseas is a true criteria if you have a good home record. not if you have such poor record.

 

india defeated wi in 1971 and eng in 1971 - years before pak managed a win in those countries

 

india has a much better record in west indies, winning in 06 and 11 where pakistan managed to only draw their series.

india has won the same number of matches in aus in the last 2 years that pak has managed in it's lifetime.

[deathmonger]

oh and also for all the talk about better record, india has won the same number of series in eng as pak and against better teams too.

 

the 07 team ind won against is better than any eng team pakistan defeated away - strauss, cook, pieterson, vaughn, bell, prior, anderson

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Were there achievements not phenomenal drawing in West Indies in 1988-1st team to do so since 1974.Also beating England in England and India in India.

 

That drawn series in West Indies was awesome, I agree with that. I am assuming all sides got whipped whenever they toured WI in 80s, even drawing a series there was hard.

 

But Pakistan's batting has always been unpredictable and could collapse at any time. India had solid batting in 2001-04 but the bowling was average.

 

I have high hopes from 2017-2021* Indian side to be the best ever. If they win consistently till 2023, then yes easily they are the greatest ever Asian test team and also contenders to be among ATG test teams of Australia and West Indies.

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Drew with Australia in Australia and not very far from winning and morally drew with West Indies in the Carribean.Bad umpiring decisions robbed them of famous win in the 1st test.Batsmen like Javed,Majid,Raja,Asif Iqbal,Zaheer,Muhtaq made it a gerat side.How many teams have ever played as well against top West Indies or Australian teams?India may have drawn a rubber down under in 1980-81 but morally was beaten,with  a mere escape at Melbourne.

 

How do you capture such complex emotions by not even being in team dressing rooms? "Morally beaten, morally drawn" and etc.

[deathmonger]

19 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

How do you capture such complex emotions by not even being in team dressing rooms? "Morally beaten, morally drawn" and etc.

moral victories - a pakistani speciality

[deathmonger]

29 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

That drawn series in West Indies was awesome, I agree with that. I am assuming all sides got whipped whenever they toured WI in 80s, even drawing a series there was hard.

 

But Pakistan's batting has always been unpredictable and could collapse at any time. India had solid batting in 2001-04 but the bowling was average.

 

I have high hopes from 2017-2021* Indian side to be the best ever. If they win consistently till 2023, then yes easily they are the greatest ever Asian test team and also contenders to be among ATG test teams of Australia and West Indies.

it was a good achievement but the match they won didnt have viv or marshall (who happened to win man of the match in the next two matches)

 

similar in achievement to our 03-04 draw in oz.

Edited February 1, 2021 by deathmonger