Abhimanyu Mishra became the youngest GM in the history of chess

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

^^ can you explain more how different was his methods to get the title than others?

 

I heard that he is homeschooled and not having the rigors of going through normal childhood

Beat a bunch of weak players in closed (invite only) events to get his norms, played some opponent multiple times in the same event. Tournaments specially arranged for him to get the GM title and create the record (as per some other GMs). The previous record holder Karjakin too got his GM title in a dodgy way, one of his opponents deliberately lost to help him become youngest ever GM. Praggu, Gukesh, Sarin, Ian, Carlsen etc got their GM titles via a much harder route. 

 

He did it within the rules but Ian thinks it must be done in an open (large field) to avoid possibility of gaming the system.

 

What's worse is dad controlling the kid, these kind of tweets are unnecessary, besides twitter isn't for 12 yos. 

 

Most chess prodigies are either homeschooled or skip school completely. Putting in 12+ hours of chess study per day (+ constant travel across the world to play tournaments) means making those kind of sacrifices. 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Anyway youngest GM is a great achievement. Shows promise, but he must forget this and look to keep improving. Many prodigies look like future WCs but stagnate at 2600-2700 level. Negi too was a famous prodigy 10-15 years ago but stagnated in the 2600s, got frustrated by lack of progress and then retired to pursue a career in engineering. 

 

This is my fear for all Indian youngsters, they have the talent but must convert it to something big. Establish yourself in top 10, play super tournaments, have deep runs in WCs, qualify for Candidates. Otherwise become a footnote in chess history. Besides very tough to financially sustain in this game if you aren't a top player....look at any 40th or 50th ranked player and they will be having a side career, sometimes chess related (coaching, content creation) or something entirely different. We have plenty of top juniors, let us see whether they establish themselves in the elite when the Aronian/Grischuk/Shak age group is pushed out. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Gollum

[BacktoCricaddict]

9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Anyway youngest GM is a great achievement. Shows promise, but he must forget this and look to keep improving. Many prodigies look like future WCs but stagnate at 2600-2700 level. Negi too was a famous prodigy 10-15 years ago but stagnated in the 2600s, got frustrated by lack of progress and then retired to pursue a career in engineering. 

 

This is my fear for all Indian youngsters, they have the talent but must convert it to something big. Establish yourself in top 10, play super tournaments, have deep runs in WCs, qualify for Candidates. Otherwise become a footnote in chess history. Besides very tough to financially sustain in this game if you aren't a top player....look at any 40th or 50th ranked player and they will be having a side career, sometimes chess related (coaching, content creation) or something entirely different. We have plenty of top juniors, let us see whether they establish themselves in the elite when the Aronian/Grischuk/Shak age group is pushed out. 

Seems to happen in a lot of sports in India, including tennis and even cricket where the players shine as juniors, U-19 players etc., but level off quickly.  

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Seems to happen in a lot of sports in India, including tennis and even cricket where the players shine as juniors, U-19 players etc., but level off quickly.  

Possibly we don't know how to develop sportspersons like Europe, America, East Asia. Know-how is definitely lacking. 

 

Tennis I can explain, when our prodigies make deep runs in junior slams, prodigies from other countries are competing and winning men's/women's events. Becker won Wimbledon as a 17 yo, same with teenage Nadal and the French Open, So many top names including women like Hingis, Seles, Sharapova. Capriati was playing slams in women's event as a 13 yo, more recently Coco Gauff as a 15 yo. Imagine if these folks had taken juniors tennis as seriously as Indians. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Gollum

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Possibly we don't know how to develop sportsmen like Europe, America, East Asia. Knowhow is definitely lacking. 

 

Tennis I can explain, when our prodigies make deep runs in junior slams, prodigies from other countries are competing and winning men's/women's events. Becker won Wimbledon as a 16 yo, same with teenage Nadal and the French, So many top names including women like Hingis, Seles, Sharapova. Capriati was playing slams in women's event as a 13 yo, more recently Coco Gauff as a 15 yo. Imagine if these folks had taken juniors tennis as seriously as Indians. 

Great points.  But for me, it is not even about winning GSs.  Just cracking the top 50 & staying there for some time is a good expectation for someone who wins a Jr GS.    

[Gollum]

19 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Great points.  But for me, it is not even about winning GSs.  Just cracking the top 50 & staying there for some time is a good expectation for someone who wins a Jr GS.    

Unfortunately in India doubles success gets all the adulation. Players would rather make deep runs playing doubles than sticking to singles and making even R2/R3 runs in slams. Sania was a pretty good singles player, made USO R4 once and was world #27, but max fame/honours/brands she got was after doubles victories. This is the country which doesn't even know about Krishnans, Amritraj but gives highest awards to doubles specialists.

 

Many faults in our tennis, I even made a long post about that in the sports section a few years back, but choosing the easy way out is a big reason behind our descent to irrelevance. Even some African countries (not named RSA) with zero tennis legacy/culture are placed higher than us today. Why will some singles guy be motivated to put in the hard yards and break into creditable top 50 ranking when bums around him/her are hailed for making the SF of mixed doubles? No going back from this, we have settled for mediocrity, truest sign of minnow mentality...same India which made 3 Davis Cup finals (should have won one if not for apartheid boycott) including beating GOAT Laver's Australia is now celebrating DC wins over Pakistan and East Timor. 

 

Real fans know that singles tennis is the only event worth talking about, doubles is glorified exho. Good that you demand higher standards (top 50 singles) than 99% of Indian sports viewers. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Gollum

[Gollum]

42 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Seems to happen in a lot of sports in India, including tennis and even cricket where the players shine as juniors, U-19 players etc., but level off quickly.  

Don't underestimate the menace of age fraud. 

 

The 2018 U-19 WC final saw a certain Manjot Kalra score a match-winning 100 and awarded MOM against Aus. Turns out he is guilty of age fraud, subsequently suspended from Ranji Trophy by BCCI, not perma ban but definitely one whole season, at least. All SC teams indulge in this, Pak/Afg more than Ind/BD/SL but a big reason why SC teams dominate the U-19 WCs is because we aren't honest participants. Look at the Afghans from last WC, looked like 25 yos playing vs kids from other countries

 

We are good at junior level, but not that good!!!!

Edited July 5, 2021 by Gollum

[BacktoCricaddict]

14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Unfortunately in India doubles success gets all the adulation. Players would rather make deep runs playing doubles than sticking to singles and making even R2/R3 runs in slams. Sania was a pretty good singles player, made USO R4 once and was world #27, but max fame/honours/brands she got was after doubles victories. This is the country which doesn't even know about Krishnans, Amritraj but gives highest awards to doubles specialists.

 

Many faults in our tennis, I even made a long post about that in the sports section a few years back, but choosing the easy way out is a big reason behind our descent to irrelevance. Even some African countries (not named RSA) with zero tennis legacy/culture are placed higher than us today. Why will some singles guy be motivated to put in the hard yards and break into creditable top 50 ranking when bums around him/her are hailed for making the SF of mixed doubles? No going back from this, we have settled for mediocrity, truest sign of minnow mentality...same India which made 3 Davis Cup finals (should have won one if not for apartheid boycott) including beating GOAT Laver's Australia is now celebrating DC wins over Pakistan and East Timor. 

 

Real fans know that singles tennis is the only event worth talking about, doubles is glorified exho. Good that you demand higher standards (top 50 singles) than 99% of Indian sports viewers. 

I think it is a chicken-egg conundrum.  I grew up in the Amritraj / Ramesh Krishnan era and singles success was celebrated. But once Leander Paes started dominating world doubles with multiple wins (he was no bum, of course), I think fans jumped on the doubles bandwagon and settled into a - "arrey itnaa toh mil rahaa hai" resignation. 

 

So, doubles success came first and then led to doubles adulation ... I'll bet if just one player cracks the singles top 25, maybe gets to a GS QF/SF a couple of times, fan interest in singles will come back.   Damn .. I still remember Sania Mirza vs Serena Williams in a USOpen 4R (?) ... fizzled away after that.  

 

 

Hope the badminton successes inspire some tennis success, too.  I, for one, will come back to tennis fandom if an Indian starts to make real noise.  

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Don't underestimate the menace of age fraud. 

 

The 2018 U-19 WC final saw a certain Manjot Kalra score a match-winning 100 and awarded MOM against Aus. Turns out he is guilty of age fraud, subsequently suspended from Ranji Trophy by BCCI, not perma ban but definitely one whole season, at least. All SC teams indulge in this, Pak/Afg more than Ind/BD/SL but a big reason why SC teams dominate the U-19 WCs is because we aren't honest participants. Look at the Afghans from last WC, looked like 25 yos playing vs kids from other countries

 

We are good at junior level, but not that good!!!!

I wasn't considering this. 

 

For me, if only Manjot Kalra was caught, only Manjot Kalra is guilty.  Just because someone "looks older" I am not ready to pass judgement that they are cheating.  Naivete?  Likely so.  

[Gollum]

10 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I wasn't considering this. 

 

For me, if only Manjot Kalra was caught, only Manjot Kalra is guilty.  Just because someone "looks older" I am not ready to pass judgement that they are cheating.  Naivete?  Likely so.  

Forget the 'looks older' part. This is a recurring issue in Indian cricket. Ex-players in Pak are quite open about systemic age fudging there.

 

Only recently has BCCI starting clamping down on this menace, Dravid (NCA Director) has urged to take this seriously. 

 

Mind you we have improved by leaps and bounds when it comes to identifying these cheats, and more decisive in meting out punishments. Was much worse in 2000s and most of 2010s. 

 

Age fraud - BCCI offers amnesty scheme to players, promises 'stern actions' to curb menace

ESPNcricinfo understands that the board has suspended 236 players in the last two years

 

Quote

Age fraud, as the BCCI said, has been a "menace: in Indian cricket for long specifically at age-group level: Under-16, Under 19 and Under 23 (both men women categories)." ESPNcricinfo understands that in the last two years itself, the BCCI has suspended 236 players - 210 men and 26 women. A total of 159 players were detected to have committed age fraud in 2019-20 season.

 

Rahul Dravid, the former India captain who is now director of cricket at the National Cricket Academy, has long considered age fraud as "seriously detrimental" to the culture of Indian cricket. Dravid reiterated that stance in the media release on Monday.

 

"Age fraud is a serious matter and is detrimental to the health of the sport," Dravid said. "Many youngsters who are supposed to be playing in a particular age group fail to make it owing to age fraud. With the BCCI taking stern actions to curb this, it is only advisable for the players to come forward and abide by the directives issued by the board."

 

Sourav Ganguly, the BCCI president, has underlined his commitment to "providing a level-playing field across all age groups". "The BCCI has been taking steps to counter age fraud and are now introducing even stricter measures from the upcoming domestic season. Those who do not voluntarily disclose their misdemeanour will be punished heavily and will be banned for two years," he said.

 

[Straight Drive]

Well done bacchu.

[maniac]

Cute kid and obviously genius but has anyone checked for any number tattoos behind his hair?

 

@zen might get this reference

[Gollum]

Thread

 

[coffee_rules]

Sad for Mishra now. Hope the kid blossoms 

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Sad for Mishra now. Hope the kid blossoms 

Let us not be over-critical because of a few tweets against Ian (who was actually the one who started being a dick)...

 

His dad would search opponents games for Abhimanyu and based on databases, suggest openings, saving his son's time....Its like @Gollum has something personal against his dad who in my view has to be praised for sacrifices and single minded focus... wonder he would have similar views if Mishra senior had Tamil or Bengali background :p.

Edited July 12, 2021 by randomGuy

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Let us not be over-critical because of a few tweets against Ian (who was actually the one who started being a dick)...

 

His dad would search opponents games for Abhimanyu and based on databases, suggest openings, saving his son's time....Its like @Gollum has something personal against his dad who in my view has to be praised for sacrifices and single minded focus... wonder he would have similar views if Mishra senior had Tamil or Bengali background :p.

Not a fan of parents who live their dreams through their children, never a positive environment. Doesn't matter which discipline or background, so many prodigies have been burnt out at a young age when the game is seen as a matter of life and death by parents/coaches. Ultimately elders who take a backseat, let their wards enjoy what they are doing without pressure, they unearth the best out of the prodigies. Like Carlsen's dad. Anyway let us see how Abhi's future unfolds, don't want to see a repeat of Kamsky.  

 

Personally didn't like the below interview, but if you have a different opinion you are entitled to it. 

 

[urbestfriend]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

Not a fan of parents who live their dreams through their children, never a positive environment. Doesn't matter which discipline or background, so many prodigies have been burnt out at a young age when the game is seen as a matter of life and death by parents/coaches. Ultimately elders who take a backseat, let their wards enjoy what they are doing without pressure, they unearth the best out of the prodigies. Like Carlsen's dad. Anyway let us see how Abhi's future unfolds, don't want to see a repeat of Kamsky.  

 

Personally didn't like the below interview, but if you have a different opinion you are entitled to it. 

 

 

You know @Gollum, if the father was not so involved and hard on the kid, he would be just another child...As he says he was not a prodigy or something, it was predetermined and lots of hardwork involved in it. With this single minded focus on the kid, he has developed the kid to something of notice...If the kid was really pressurized, he wouldn't have been a chamion, would he? 

Edited July 13, 2021 by urbestfriend

[randomGuy]

9 hours ago, urbestfriend said:

 

You know @Gollum, if the father was not so involved and hard on the kid, he would be just another child...As he says he was not a prodigy or something, it was predetermined and lots of hardwork involved in it. With this single minded focus on the kid, he has developed the kid to something of notice...If the kid was really pressurized, he wouldn't have been a chamion, would he? 

Right...Kid doesn't look pressurised.. looks cheerful and motivated. The results are there, he smashed the record of youngest IM and GM..I bet he will achieve his next goal of 2700 (may or May not be before completing 15 yrs)..

[randomGuy]

Beats Harikrishna in rapid