We must go for a 4 PACER template for most tests in SENA unless a clear turner is expected.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Spinners are usually played to change the pace for batsmen and catch up with over rate. If only four fast bowlers are bowling, imagine the over rate. Jaddu dies his 15 overs in 30 minutes. And if there is a bit of wear and tear, a spinner can come in to play but can't expect them to run through sides especially when both of them struggle to hit the footmarks. Both are wicket to wicket bowlers. 

 

bhai 4th pacer like Thakur also won't run through sides.

 

No one is asking for Ashwin for Bumrah or Siraj

[express bowling]

Shardul should work on his bowling fitness.

 

As a batsman he is looking as good as Botham but he is bowling 5 kph slower than usual.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

bhai 4th pacer like Thakur also won't run through sides.

 

No one is asking for Ashwin for Bumrah or Siraj

But Thakur is playing for his batting too, not just bowling. Even Thakur ran through Australia with 7 wickets at Gabba.

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

If spinners don't play any role why play any spinner at all. Why not just go with 6 full time batsmen and 4 seamers.  The thing is spinners have played a role in overseas wins. Just because Ashwin's hasn't gotten the opportunity till now doesn't mean he will never do it. If you really want a spinner to complement this fast bowling unit obvious choice would be Ashwin. Jadeja is a compromising choice because 3/4/5 suck and Pant is indifferent. Since Thakur and Umesh can bat, Jaddu's inclusion is not a must anymore. 

Jaddu won't be dropped now,he secured his spot today for the 5th

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

bhai 4th pacer like Thakur also won't run through sides.

 

No one is asking for Ashwin for Bumrah or Siraj

In SENA with slightest of help Thakur like bowlers can certainly run through lineups,akin to Axar type bowlers demolishing lineups in India

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Let him show at uppper leverl for TN n India- A when he bats up, u need to show at every level coz it gets tougher n tougher 

 

 

wnt go that far as all our all rounder have some limitations so their wud be times B wud look better then A . So i expect a lot of inconsistency in selection

 

• For all the flak pandya got and comparison made to jaddu during last eng tour ,jaddu hasnt performed with bat...atleast pandya had a match winning spell 
• Sundar didnt look threatning with ball in Ind-ENg home series (on place he shud have with his pace) , so a captain is bound to look at someone like Axar

 

 

Need to see with time who grows better and conditions 

In India- England series, TM didn't utilise him well at all because he isn't a specialist spinner. He should have been utilised as batting alrounder to bat 5-6 and 5th bowler. You need a batting alrounder as a 5th bowler, not a bowling alrounder. It weakens the batting. That's why I am not sure about Jaddu at 7. He is a very limited batsman.

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Shardul should work on his bowling fitness.

 

As a batsman he is looking as good as Botham but he is bowling 5 kph slower than usual.

He is also bowling as quick as Botham 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Spinners are usually played to change the pace for batsmen and catch up with over rate. If only four fast bowlers are bowling, imagine the over rate. Jaddu dies his 15 overs in 30 minutes. And if there is a bit of wear and tear, a spinner can come in to play but can't expect them to run through sides especially when both of them struggle to hit the footmarks. Both are wicket to wicket bowlers. 

Didn't Lyon take 9 wickets in England in the last Ashes?  6 & 3.  Current Indian pacers don't need spinner overseas. But having the best spinner will only make your bowling even more potent.  Jadeja's batting has to be much better than this to justify that promotion.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Jaddu won't be dropped now,he secured his spot today for the 5th

That is a given. He already conveyed that in an arrogant tone. I have a gut feeling Axxar will not be played at home above Jadeja despite his stellar performance.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

But Thakur is playing for his batting too, not just bowling. Even Thakur ran through Australia with 7 wickets at Gabba.

 

and Ashwin got 7 at Edgbaston 2018.and 5 in Adelaide this year but only 93 to defend last innings

 

I'm convinced Thakur can bat at 7 now so both can get in. But his bowling still has 'how does he do it' vibes.

 

If both couldn't bat at all,I'd still pick Ashwin

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

In SENA with slightest of help Thakur like bowlers can certainly run through lineups,akin to Axar type bowlers demolishing lineups in India

 

on greentops or overcast I have already said 4 pacers is good

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is a given. He already conveyed that in an arrogant tone. I have a gut feeling Axxar will not be played at home above Jadeja despite his stellar performance.

 

Would play all 3 along with Shami and Umesh v NZ

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

In SENA with slightest of help Thakur like bowlers can certainly run through lineups,akin to Axar type bowlers demolishing lineups in India

absolutely, with his away going one he ll trouble big batsman 

he did trouble smith for few balls in Gabba but just has a knack of bowling looses ones............which will get better with experience

 

He ll always be handy in seaming conditions . He was coming off from injury so i felll he wasnt at his best this game ......he is a much better bowler then he bowled here 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Would play all 3 along with Shami and Umesh v NZ

 

He won't drop Bumrah. SHami/Umesh may be even Ishant plus 2 spinners ONe of them could either be Ashwin or Axar Definitely not Jaddu.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Didn't Lyon take 9 wickets in England in the last Ashes?  6 & 3.  Current Indian pacers don't need spinner overseas. But having the best spinner will only make your bowling even more potent.  Jadeja's batting has to be much better than this to justify that promotion.

Lyon is probably the best exponent of footmarks currently, much better than Ashwin and Jaddu. Any spinner who can utilise footmarks will do well. Lyon is used to it in domestic cricket. They hardly get turn from the pitch but utilise the footmarks well. Our spinners struggle to hit footmarks because they aren't used to it. Indian pitches offer more turn from the pitch area so they become wicket to wicket bowler. Lyon and Ashwin aren't the same bowler. Similarly Swann was different from Ashwin. Lyon has run through Indian batting in Australia just by utilising footmarks and the bounce.

[Lord]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

He won't drop Bumrah. SHami/Umesh may be even Ishant plus 2 spinners ONe of them could either be Ashwin or Axar Definitely not Jaddu.

 

Bumrah has mental block v NZ plus would need rest

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He is also bowling as quick as Botham 

 

 

Bowling at 130 kph was ok in 1980. But not in 2021.

 

Add to that the fact that Shardul won't get to play 55% of his tests in swing-friendly England like Botham.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

and Ashwin got 7 at Edgbaston 2018.and 5 in Adelaide this year but only 93 to defend last innings

 

I'm convinced Thakur can bat at 7 now so both can get in. But his bowling still has 'how does he do it' vibes.

 

If both couldn't bat at all,I'd still pick Ashwin

Edgbaston can be a good track for spinners. You have to look at the pitch too. We could have won that test if we had Bumrah.

Edited September 6, 2021 by rkt.india

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

absolutely, with his away going one he ll trouble big batsman 

he did trouble smith for few balls in Gabba but just has a knack of bowling looses ones............which will get better with experience

 

He ll always be handy in seaming conditions 

If he is fit,you play him in SENA,he was dearly missed in WTC final

+High chances of him scoring runs

Simple

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bowling at 130 kph was ok in 1980. But not in 2021.

 

It's fine for an alrounder, 130-135 in these conditions.