We must go for a 4 PACER template for most tests in SENA unless a clear turner is expected.

[express bowling]

We must go for A 4 pacer template for most tests in SENA unless a clear turner is expected.


Why ? -------

Because this would keep our wicket-taking pacers fresh for the match as well as the whole series and allow them to bowl with full intensity and energy.

And we need fully functional pacers to win tests in SENA.

We saw how Bumrah bowled at full tilt throughout the first test match and pucked 9 wickets as he got sufficient rest and always came back fresh due to the 4 pacer strategy.



Many people think that someone like Ashwin will get wickets too ------

He may. I am not saying he won't.

BUT to win tests consistently in SENA we would need our frontline fast bowlers to pick lots of wickets and stay fit.

What happens is that, during the 1st innings and early part of 2nd innings, the conditions are such that captains WANT to bowl pacers only. ( When pacers get much more help than spinners )

Let's say 90 overs are bowled on the first day of the test. The captain wants to give 70 to 80 overs to pacers due to the seamer friendly conditions. If there are only 3 pacers then each pacer will bowl 23 to 27 overs in one day. If there are 4 pacers then each will bowl 17 to 20 overs.

Overbowling main pacers lead to niggles or the pacers bowling with less intensity and energy. And this leads to them being less effective.

I repeat ... this is NOT an issue about whether Ashwin picks up wickets, especially on days 4 and 5. He may well do so in his current form. This is an issue of keeping our frontline pacers fit and fresh.

If we want to play Ashwin regularly then we must find a pacer who can bat at 7.



Pacers like Shardul, who can bat at 8 and have some batting ability, would be very crucial for the balance of the team. As we were discussing in another thread, upcoming pacers like Darshan Nalkande and Divyansh Joshi, should be groomed for this role of bowling all-rounder. And we would have to see if Shivam Mavi can be developed into a bowling all-rounder.

 

For this strategy to succeed, we must have a 4th pacer with batting ability like Shardul, as we cannot afford 4 tailenders.
 

Edited August 12, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Shardul is injured for the 2nd test and this will pose a problem for us. 

 

We don't want Bumrah or Siraj or Shami to pick.up niggles in such a crucial test series by overbowling them.

 

Umesh Yadav has improved his batting in recent times. Can he bat at 8 and replace Shardul for this test only  ??

Edited August 12, 2021 by express bowling

[QuarantineTormentino]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We must go for A 4 pacer template for most tests in SENA unless a clear turner is expected.


Why ? -------

Because this would keep our wicket-taking pacers fresh for the match as well as the whole series and allow them to bowl with full intensity and energy.

And we need fully functional pacers to win tests in SENA.

We saw how Bumrah bowled at full tilt throughout the first test match and pucked 9 wickets as he got sufficient rest and always came back fresh due to the 4 pacer strategy.



Many people think that someone like Ashwin will get wickets too ------

He may. I am not saying he won't.

BUT to win tests consistently in SENA we would need our frontline fast bowlers to pick lots of wickets and stay fit.

What happens is that, during the 1st innings and early part of 2nd innings, the conditions are such that captains WANT to bowl pacers only. ( When pacers get much more help than spinners )

Let's say 90 overs are bowled on the first day of the test. The captain wants to give 70 to 80 overs to pacers due to the seamer friendly conditions. If there are only 3 pacers then each pacer will bowl 23 to 27 overs in one day. If there are 4 pacers then each will bowl 17 to 20 overs.

Overbowling main pacers lead to niggles or the pacers bowling with less intensity and energy. And this leads to them being less effective.

I repeat ... this is NOT an issue about whether Ashwin picks up wickets, especially on days 4 and 5. He may well do so in his current form.

If we want to play Ashwin regularly then we must find a pacer who can bat at 7.



Pacers like Shardul, who can bat at 8 and have some batting ability, would be very crucial for the balance of the team. As we were discussing in another thread, upcoming pacers like Darshan Nalkande and Divyansh Joshi, should be groomed for this role of bowling all-rounder. And we would have to see if Shivam Mavi can be developed into a bowling all-rounder.
 

Also we need cover if one of the pacers has an off-day. Plus can’t really fault the bowlers for not being able to bat when the middle order does zilch themselves

[Lone Wolf]

In an ideal world with a fit n firing middle order playing with 4 pacers is a tempting option. 

But with guys like Pujara Kohli Rahane we always know collapse is on the way. 

They nearly bottled the 1st test when we were in a strong position.  If not for some lucky runs from Tail we would have had 15-20 run lead at max. 

With Shardul out of the test we have no choice but to play Ashwin. 

Although it will be risky if we go with 4 genuine Tailenders but increase in responsibility may also do wonders for Kohli & Rahane type guys to step up. 

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

In an ideal world with a fit n firing middle order playing with 4 pacers is a tempting option. 

But with guys like Pujara Kohli Rahane we always know collapse is on the way. 

They nearly bottled the 1st test when we were in a strong position.  If not for some lucky runs from Tail we would have had 15-20 run lead at max. 

With Shardul out of the test we have no choice but to play Ashwin. 

Although it will be risky if we go with 4 genuine Tailenders but increase in responsibility may also do wonders for Kohli & Rahane type guys to step up. 

 

 

This strategy is obviously for a situation when we have a 4th pacer with batting ability.

 

We obviously cannot afford 4 tailenders.

Edited August 12, 2021 by express bowling

[QuarantineTormentino]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This strategy is obviously for a situation when we have 4th pacer with batting ability.

 

We obviously cannot afford 4 tailenders.

Very true we are already carrying 3 in our middle order

[Majestic]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Shardul is injured for the 2nd test and this will pose a problem for us. 

 

We don't want Bumrah or Siraj or Shami to pick.up niggles in such a crucial test series by overbowling them.

 

Umesh Yadav has improved his batting in recent times. Can he bat at 8 and replace Shardul for this test only  ??

Nope. He is a Mohammad Shami type slogger. Good for no.9 but not 8. Also England would like to bring Wood to make sure our tailenders don't trouble them. 

 

For now, only Ashwin is the choice as Shardul replacement.

[Lord]

Why can't pacers be kept fresh by Ashwin bowling lots of overs?Will also help with the over rate.

 

We don't have Pandya or Bhuvi and now even Thakur is injured.

 

Cant have such a long tail

[Lord]

Also Ashwin has done well overseas recently so he doesnt need a turner.

 

Jaddu might but Ash doesnt

[rkt.india]

20 minutes ago, Lord said:

Why can't pacers be kept fresh by Ashwin bowling lots of overs?Will also help with the over rate.

 

We don't have Pandya or Bhuvi and now even Thakur is injured.

 

Cant have such a long tail

Because spinners coming into bowl overseas means you are going out of the game most of the times. You need to get teams out quickly which isn't possible with spinners who need lot of overs to take wickets.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Because spinners coming into bowl overseas means you are going out of the game most of the times. You need to get teams out quickly which isn't possible with spinners who need lot of overs to take wickets.

 

not really. Ashwin picked 4 in 25 overs in WTC. Did well in Aus

 

and you are only talking about first innings. Things quicken up on 4th 5th day

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Now India will be bowling last on a not so green pitch on day 4/5 with Ishant instead of Ashwin.

 

We will find out how stupid Kohli looks for this. Hopefully it wouldn't come to that.

 

also Ishant at 8. 

[ash]

I don't understand this selection. In WTC final everyone agreed that what we needed was a swing bowler to use the conditions. Shardul was a very good choice in the 1st test. What is the use of bringing Ishant here who is just going to give the same value as Siraj. 

 

Ashwin would have reduced the over rate, keep the seamers fresh and as he showed in WTC finals he can have a better SR than Ishant. Add his batting to the mix and this becomes a horrible decision.

[Ankit_sharma03]

u shud always go with ur 4 best bowler - these condition enhances shardul bowling

 

2002 headingly we won with 2 spinners

2003-04 aussie tour was basically kumble with some suppourt by agarkar, zak, irfan 

 

Ashwin bowling was actually the turning point in Aus as he went after smith n labuschane (they werent even lefties), that also included a pink ball test 

 

aussies didnt win in India in 2004 series with spinners, pacers did the role unlike many wud tell that u need spinners to win in India 

 

Idea shud be ur 4 best bowlers keep conditions in mind 

 

If anything ashwin has shown he can take wkts with new ball overseas specially on Day-1 using the moisture 

 

 

 

and Aus is not the place for finger spinners unless ur Local boy Lyon

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

Why can't pacers be kept fresh by Ashwin bowling lots of overs ?

 

 

Captains invariable bowl pacers or want to bowl pacers in seam friendly conditions. 

 

Spinners come in to bowl only when it is either favourable for spinners or pacers are not getting enough help.

 

This is what happens in practice more often than not.

[GautiMaan]

But why cant the fourth pacer be someone who can bat, Deepak Chahar could have added some value here

[Lord]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Captains invariable bowl pacers or want to bowl pacers in seam friendly conditions. 

 

Spinners come in to bowl only when it is either favourable for spinners or pacers are not getting enough help.

 

This is what happens in practice more often than not.

 

Depends on quality of bowlers too. Ash did do well in Aus with little help

 

Here with sun around its  expected to swing less later

 

For cloudy or greentop I agree. Still I am not comfortable with Ishant at 8

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

Now India will be bowling last on a not so green pitch on day 4/5 with Ishant instead of Ashwin.

 

We will find out how stupid Kohli looks for this. Hopefully it wouldn't come to that.

 like so many games won by Ashwin in 4th innings in SENA.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Depends on quality of bowlers too. Ash did do well in Aus with little help

 

Here with sun around its  expected to swing less later

 

For cloudy or greentop I agree. Still I am not comfortable with Ishant at 8

In England, ball swings even under sun. 

[express bowling]

Ishant as the 4th pacer isn't the ideal choice either.