India Foils Chinese Incursion in Arunachal Pradesh, Briefly Detains PLA Troops

[rangeelaraja]

https://www.news18.com/news/india/exclusive-india-foils-chinese-incursion-in-arunachal-pradesh-temporarily-detains-troops-4298540.html

 

 

China is just itching for a war and trying to force India's hand.

 

 

[bharathh]

They are overextending themselves by being aggressive in Taiwan as well. Arrogance is going to be their downfall soon.

[mishra]

I do not understand why briefly detain. Next time, Detain them for good and make it a crisis and see how it plays out. Lets see if Chinese army too has galls to free their soldiers from captivity. Absolute failure by our top brass.

[Lone Wolf]

Well I think we had our shot to give them the bloody nose last year.  China was cornered & we were in advantange as well military wise & PLA was far less prepared than Indian army at least in Eastern Ladakh.   Arunachal sector is troublesome but we have always maintained massive troop deployment there.  

Long term there are reports about massive infrastructure buildup in Xinjiang & Tibet..  New Air force bases & everything & Their superior & numerous MBRLs & we have only Pinaka there.  IAF had massive massive advantage over PLAF last year. 

China is preparing for a assault in next 3-4 years I guess Coz that's what they are always good at the waiting game.  They will come at us fully prepared. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[dial_100]

8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Well I think we had our shot to give them the bloody nose last year.  China was cornered & we were in advantange as well military wise & PLA was far less prepared than Indian army at least in Eastern Ladakh.   Arunachal sector is troublesome but we have always maintained massive troop deployment there.  

Long term there are reports about massive infrastructure buildup in Xinjiang & Tibet..  New Air force bases & everything & Their superior & numerous MBRLs & we have only Pinaka there.  IAF had massive massive advantage over PLAF last year. 

China is preparing for a assault in next 3-4 years I guess Coz that's what they are always good at the waiting game.  They will come at us fully prepared. 

 

 

Full blown war? They cannot. There is a clear and guaranteed destruction on both the sides if that happens. Question is how much damage both India and China can tolerate in case of any conflict. They couldnt even reveal 40-50 dead soldiers last time, are you sure they will accept 1-2k dead soldiers with large scale escalation?

 

When was the last time China did a large scale war? There is your answer. 

[Lone Wolf]

9 hours ago, dial_100 said:

 

Full blown war? They cannot. There is a clear and guaranteed destruction on both the sides if that happens. Question is how much damage both India and China can tolerate in case of any conflict. They couldnt even reveal 40-50 dead soldiers last time, are you sure they will accept 1-2k dead soldiers with large scale escalation?

 

When was the last time China did a large scale war? There is your answer. 

You think 1962 was a full blown war...  You think Kargil 1999 was a full blown war?  Mountain border wars are whats gonna happen in Indo-China border & few Cyber attacks mostly.  You won't see Missile raining down. 

Tactical occupation of various Passes & peaks is what gonna happen.  Nobody is losing whole of Ladakh or in China's case Aksai Chin. 

I remember reading a post of Gen Ata Hasnain last year that Indian Army has stopped patrolling Karakoram pass..  Our natural boundary to Xinjiang since 2014.   In sub sector North our main operational base is DBO which is a pain in China's a***...  It separates Siachin from Aksai Chin. 

[mishra]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

You think 1962 was a full blown war...  You think Kargil 1999 was a full blown war?  Mountain border wars are whats gonna happen in Indo-China border & few Cyber attacks mostly.  You won't see Missile raining down. 

Tactical occupation of various Passes & peaks is what gonna happen.  Nobody is losing whole of Ladakh or in China's case Aksai Chin. 

I remember reading a post of Gen Ata Hasnain last year that Indian Army has stopped patrolling Karakoram pass..  Our natural boundary to Xinjiang since 2014.   In sub sector North our main operational base is DBO which is a pain in China's a***...  It separates Siachin from Aksai Chin. 

Karakoram pass?

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Karakoram pass?

Yep Karakoram pass is right above north of Daulat beig oldie..  The under construction air strip & our life line in SSN.  Beyond that there is a massive massive military PLA post which is highly defended called Shenxiawan post. 

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/shenxianwan-the-toughest-china-post-that-guards-karakoram-pass-1695568-2020-06-30

Last time Indian tanks went up there when Lt Gen Panag was in command. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[mishra]

7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Yep Karakoram pass is right above north of Daulat beig oldie..  The under construction air strip & our life line in SSN.  Beyond that there is a massive massive military PLA post which is highly defended called Shenxiawan post. 

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/shenxianwan-the-toughest-china-post-that-guards-karakoram-pass-1695568-2020-06-30

Last time Indian tanks went up there when Lt Gen Panag was in command. 

I think CPEC goes via same Karakoram. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

I think CPEC goes via same Karakoram. 

Nope CPEC goes along Karakoram highway before entering Khunjerab pass in Gilgit baltistan.  Karakoram is a entire mountain range as well...  The Karakoram Pass is a natural barrier separating Northern Ladakh from Xinjiang. 

[rangeelaraja]

Our political leadership effed us again.

 

When our forces scaled  all the key heights  Kailash Range - several established  ammunition depots and a major garrison were sitting ducks. We vacated these heights in return for Chinese vacating all the way upto Finger 8 of Pangong Tso. 
 

Terrible Terrible deal. 
 

we need another kailash range like operation to put pressure on them to vacate Depsang plains. 
 

I guess the window is only till Nov 30, after that the winters are unforgiving. 

[Lone Wolf]

38 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

Our political leadership effed us again.

 

When our forces scaled  all the key heights  Kailash Range - several established  ammunition depots and a major garrison were sitting ducks. We vacated these heights in return for Chinese vacating all the way upto Finger 8 of Pangong Tso. 
 

Terrible Terrible deal. 
 

we need another kailash range like operation to put pressure on them to vacate Depsang plains. 
 

I guess the window is only till Nov 30, after that the winters are unforgiving. 

Also the cost of this entire operation & keeping the forces up there in winters is very Taxing.   We know how much Siachen costs us.. Eastern Ladakh would make that look like peanuts.  Chinese don't mind the economics much they have better connectivity & everything including tech.  Keeping India up there serves their purposed keeping both sides of the border hot.  They pick n chose Where they want to pinch us every time. 

 

I visited several defence forums last year & most of the members were very disappointed with how GOI acted upon.  We went very very soft on China after what they did to us last year.  We even managed significant Foreign support. Most of Western media was running our own propaganda..  we had succeeded in China looking like Aggressor which it was. 

GOI's policies have been short sighted & reactive to say the least.  Pussyfooting at every step. 

[rangeelaraja]

15 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Also the cost of this entire operation & keeping the forces up there in winters is very Taxing.   We know how much Siachen costs us.. Eastern Ladakh would make that look like peanuts.  Chinese don't mind the economics much they have better connectivity & everything including tech.  Keeping India up there serves their purposed keeping both sides of the border hot.  They pick n chose Where they want to pinch us every time. 

 

I visited several defence forums last year & most of the members were very disappointed with how GOI acted upon.  We went very very soft on China after what they did to us last year.  We even managed significant Foreign support. Most of Western media was running our own propaganda..  we had succeeded in China looking like Aggressor which it was. 

GOI's policies have been short sighted & reactive to say the least.  Pussyfooting at every step. 

 

Money is not the answer to everything.  They have changed 4 Generals in charge of that area in 1.5 years. 

 

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/china-appoints-new-military-commander-to-head-troops-along-indian-border-121090700457_1.html

 

Clearly if things were going well as per them that would not have been the case.

 

1 of them supposedly " died" . They too have not had this sort of forward deployment for this much time in punishing weather.

 

And theirs is an army of conscripts who are the only sons of their parents ( thanks to the 1 child policy ). Their soldiers are by no means motivated by any cause.

 

The only reason why Pakistan and China share a border is because of PoK Gilgit Baltistan. Without that China is not even a neighbor to Pakistan.

 

Long term - Medium term our goal should be ( and trust me it is ) to ensure that we have only one border heavily militarized border - which is with China.

 

This can only happen if Pak is totally destabilized and implodes and -- this is in the works. Wait for 8 more months. You will see something that you did not imagine can happen so quickly and suddenly.

 

When we have 400,000 troops on our Northern and Eastern Border with China and raise a dedicated missile force ( which is in the works). China will buckle down and back off.

 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

Money is not the answer to everything.  They have changed 4 Generals in charge of that area in 1.5 years. 

 

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/china-appoints-new-military-commander-to-head-troops-along-indian-border-121090700457_1.html

 

Clearly if things were going well as per them that would not have been the case.

 

1 of them supposedly " died" . They too have not had this sort of forward deployment for this much time in punishing weather.

 

And theirs is an army of conscripts who are the only sons of their parents ( thanks to the 1 child policy ). Their soldiers are by no means motivated by any cause.

 

The only reason why Pakistan and China share a border is because of PoK Gilgit Baltistan. Without that China is not even a neighbor to Pakistan.

 

Long term - Medium term our goal should be ( and trust me it is ) to ensure that we have only one border heavily militarized border - which is with China.

 

This can only happen if Pak is totally destabilized and implodes and -- this is in the works. Wait for 8 more months. You will see something that you did not imagine can happen so quickly and suddenly.

 

When we have 400,000 troops on our Northern and Eastern Border with China and raise a dedicated missile force ( which is in the works). China will buckle down and back off.

 

 

 

 

You are on point with Pakistan.  Destablizing Pakistan is must for our long term security. 

China has similar issues with Taiwan & other hostile Eastern neighbours even Ruskies aren't trustworthy for them.  They keep most of their MBRLs & missile forces on their eastern Seashore same with Navy.  They aren't anywhere close to fully committed on Western border with India.  Situation will change if we delay the inevitable. 

Same way if India can fully manage a single ultra hot border with China as our Economic condition allows us to.  Our missile force is still a work in progress & MBRL rocket forces are in building stage not anywhere closer to China though. 

But at the moment we are pinned on two fronts which is not suitable for even superpowers let alone India.  Last year was a grave opportunity missed...  If Indira had been silent in 1967 when China was all set to capture Sikkim (then only a protectorate)  we would not have Sikkim in our grasp as of today. 

Modi's Shantidoot image doesn't sit well with me.  All the diplomatic stunts he pulls occasionally often hurt India.  Right from Pathankot attack when he invited ISI to investigate..  He needs to show some guts & not be reactive all the time.   I am sure Indian Army is ready for anything provided GOI shows some faith in them. 

[rangeelaraja]

14 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

You are on point with Pakistan.  Destablizing Pakistan is must for our long term security. 

China has similar issues with Taiwan & other hostile Eastern neighbours even Ruskies aren't trustworthy for them.  They keep most of their MBRLs & missile forces on their eastern Seashore same with Navy.  They aren't anywhere close to fully committed on Western border with India.  Situation will change if we delay the inevitable. 

Same way if India can fully manage a single ultra hot border with China as our Economic condition allows us to.  Our missile force is still a work in progress & MBRL rocket forces are in building stage not anywhere closer to China though. 

But at the moment we are pinned on two fronts which is not suitable for even superpowers let alone India.  Last year was a grave opportunity missed...  If Indira had been silent in 1967 when China was all set to capture Sikkim (then only a protectorate)  we would not have Sikkim in our grasp as of today. 

Modi's Shantidoot image doesn't sit well with me.  All the diplomatic stunts he pulls occasionally often hurt India.  Right from Pathankot attack when he invited ISI to investigate..  He needs to show some guts & not be reactive all the time.   I am sure Indian Army is ready for anything provided GOI shows some faith in them. 

 

 

The problem is actually much deeper than that. We totally lack strategic vision and ambition. 

 

Even without a direct kinetic war. - there is lots that we could have done 

 

China has done everything possible to violate our sovereignty time and again and time and again 

 

1) CPEC through OUR illegally occupied territory.

2)  Nuclear arming and missile arming of Pak.  

3) Being the only P5 country that vetoes against India when it comes to Pak terrorism.

4) Being the only P5 country that opposes and vetoes our inclusion and expansion of P5. 

 

 

 

 

What the hell stops us from having the same relationship with Taiwan ?  

 

Taiwan is a tiny but powerhouse nation that is very advanced in high tech and semi conductors. More so than perhaps any country in the world. 

 

Why have covert relations with Taiwan -- why not make them overt to spit on China's face ?

 

Why not supply Taiwan with nuclear technology ? Why not arm Taiwan every possible way to destroy China's eastern coast ?

 

If China barks and protests - ask them to phuck off from POK, and ask them that respect One India policy or shove the One China policy up you @$$.

 

The fear our babus have is if we adopt this approach - Pak and China would collude against us in a 2 front military operation. 

 

The reality is inspite not doing A THING in favor of Taiwan  ----Pak and China have colluded against India for decades.

 

I would even go as far to say that - like the THAAD in South Korea pissed off China to an extreme end because of the visibility it has - we should strike a deal 

with US to have THAAD units in the Ladakh and Arunachal sector.

 

Let the filthy Chinese blood boil. Unless  we don't spit on the faces of these chincom dogs - they will not behave.

 

 

 

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

Any military attempt to seize Taiwan will be the end of China in its current form. 

 

Japan will never ever allow this to happen - Taiwan is very close to Japanese islands and it will directly threaten Japan.

US, UK, Australia, Japan will get involved in the defense of Taiwan ( who itself is no military minnow )

 

It would be catastrophic and a humiliating defeat for China and CCP would find survival difficult after that. 
 

They just want to take Taiwan by intimidation and show of force and how Taiwan will fold. None of this is going to happen.

 

it’s only a matter of when China commits the blunder that will lead to mainland China itself in deep Shute.  

[mishra]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:28 PM, Lone Wolf said:

You are on point with Pakistan.  Destablizing Pakistan is must for our long term security. 

China has similar issues with Taiwan & other hostile Eastern neighbours even Ruskies aren't trustworthy for them.  They keep most of their MBRLs & missile forces on their eastern Seashore same with Navy.  They aren't anywhere close to fully committed on Western border with India.  Situation will change if we delay the inevitable. 

Same way if India can fully manage a single ultra hot border with China as our Economic condition allows us to.  Our missile force is still a work in progress & MBRL rocket forces are in building stage not anywhere closer to China though. 

But at the moment we are pinned on two fronts which is not suitable for even superpowers let alone India.  Last year was a grave opportunity missed...  If Indira had been silent in 1967 when China was all set to capture Sikkim (then only a protectorate)  we would not have Sikkim in our grasp as of today. 

Modi's Shantidoot image doesn't sit well with me.  All the diplomatic stunts he pulls occasionally often hurt India.  Right from Pathankot attack when he invited ISI to investigate..  He needs to show some guts & not be reactive all the time.   I am sure Indian Army is ready for anything provided GOI shows some faith in them. 

We need someone like Indiraji who is ready to deliver. Modi is being advised by someone called Dr Jaishankar on foreign policy who is career beureucrat. Beureucrats are risk averse. Someone from RAW should take over

 

PS: Above is based on assumption that there is not massive disparity on military muscel and our leadership knows it.

Edited October 11, 2021 by mishra