WI of 80s in major ODI events

[zen]

A great team which won two back to back ODI WC titles in the 70s but unlucky  in the 80s: 

 

• 1983 WC: Lost to Ind in the WC final
• 1985 (WSC in Australia, a major multi-national tournament in the 80s): Lost to Pak in the SF
• 1987 WC: Did not make it to the SF. There was this incident of sportsmanship when Walsh did not runout a Pak batsman was backing too far up. If Walsh had run him out, WI could have made it to the SF. 
• 1989 (Nehru Cup, a major multi-national tournament in the 80s): Lost to Pak in the final 

 

So basically ran into Ind in the 83 final and Pak thrice in must win games ... In bilaterals, WI would beat these teams without much trouble. 

 

It is as if its luck put a stop sign after 2 wins ... In T20s too, WI is currently on 2 WC titles, so would it struggle to get to the 3rd T20 title or break the jinx of 2 titles 

 

 

[Jay]

Sounds like India post 2013. Exactly the same. 

 

Semi final t20

Final t20

Champions trophy odi

WC odi

Semi-final odi WC

WTC final

 

 

God damn. We could have won 4 of these if the right team was picked by blundering moron kohli. 

 

The only real loss should have been 2015 vs Aussies where we weren't favourites. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Sounds like India post 2013. Exactly the same. 

 

Semi final t20

Final t20

Champions trophy odi

WC odi

Semi-final odi WC

WTC final

 

 

God damn. We could have won 4 of these if the right team was picked by blundering moron kohli. 

 

The only real loss should have been 2015 vs Aussies where we weren't favourites. 

Note that that WI team is being discussed because it was in a different league. Even the T20 WI team is in its own league if in form because of its hitting capabilities. 

 

As for losing at key stages by good teams, like Ind, many other good teams have been unlucky … Pak for e.g. made it to either SF or F of every World Cup and special multinational event b/w 1983 to 1992, finally winning the 1989 Nehru Cup and 1992 WC … Eng made it to two back to back finals in 87 and 92 (made it to 2 SFs and a F before 87) … NZ also made it to two back to back finals in 2015 and 2019 … SL made the 2007 WC F, 2009 T20 WC F, 2011 WC F, and 2012 T20 WC F, finally winning the T20 WC in 2014 (Here is a team that made it to 5 WC finals in that period across ODIs and T20s) 

Edited October 21, 2021 by zen

[Jay]

54 minutes ago, zen said:

Note that that WI team is being discussed because it was in a different league. Even the T20 WI team is in its own league if in form because of its hitting capabilities. 

 

As for losing at key stages by good teams, like Ind, many other good teams have been unlucky … Pak for e.g. made it to either SF or F of every World Cup and special multinational event b/w 1983 to 1992, finally winning the 1989 Nehru Cup and 1992 WC … Eng made it to two back to back finals in 87 and 92 (made it to 2 SFs and a F before 87) … NZ also made it to two back to back finals in 2015 and 2019 … SL made the 2007 WC F, 2009 T20 WC F, 2011 WC F, and 2012 T20 WC F, finally winning the T20 WC in 2014 (Here is a team that made it to 5 WC finals in that period across ODIs and T20s) 

That's true. 2007-2014 Sri Lanka was a strong side. More than good enough to beat Dhoni India of 2011 in the WC too. 

 

Credit to India for beating a powerful lankan side in peak form back in 2011. 

 

They did get us back in 2014 t20. Good stuff. But see they dint do as well In tests. 

 

Not only did India reach finals and semis of ICC tournaments, India were also number 1 in tests for 5 years. 

They are still very likely to be number 1 very soon once they beat Kiwis at home. 

 

Huge difference.

 

Pak of 90s dint dominate in tests either. Never a top 3 side in that period. Never reached number 1. 

[zen]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

That's true. 2007-2014 Sri Lanka was a strong side. More than good enough to beat Dhoni India of 2011 in the WC too. 

 

Credit to India for beating a powerful lankan side in peak form back in 2011. 

 

They did get us back in 2014 t20. Good stuff. But see they dint do as well In tests. 

 

Not only did India reach finals and semis of ICC tournaments, India were also number 1 in tests for 5 years. 

They are still very likely to be number 1 very soon once they beat Kiwis at home. 

 

Huge difference.

 

Pak of 90s dint dominate in tests either. Never a top 3 side in that period. Never reached number 1. 

Not interested in random stuff. Also the thread is on WI so let’s stick to the topic. 

[Jay]

9 minutes ago, zen said:

Not interested in random stuff. Also the thread is on WI so let’s stick to the topic. 

Not random because you claim it so. That's your perception of reality. 

Facts suggest that india dominated the test scene. Sri Lanka struggled to do so 

 

As for West Indies, yes they were a great side. The best ever easily. 

[zen]

Just now, Jay said:

Not random because you claim it so. That's your perception of reality. 

Facts suggest that india dominated the test scene. Sri Lanka struggled to do so 

 

As for West Indies, yes they were a great side. The best ever easily. 

The thread is on WI. 
 

Posting random stuff will get you nowhere.

[Jay]

32 minutes ago, zen said:

The thread is on WI. 
 

Posting random stuff will get you nowhere.

Ok. Making random threads forces people to deviate from the topic. 

[dilliboy]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Not random because you claim it so. That's your perception of reality. 

Facts suggest that india dominated the test scene. Sri Lanka struggled to do so 

 

As for West Indies, yes they were a great side. The best ever easily. 

Lol the best ever side post War is the Australian side of 1999-2007..not sure how anyone can argue against that. 

[kohli]

52 minutes ago, dilliboy said:

Lol the best ever side post War is the Australian side of 1999-2007..not sure how anyone can argue against that. 

Aus 1999-2007 > wi 1979-1990

[Jay]

2 hours ago, dilliboy said:

Lol the best ever side post War is the Australian side of 1999-2007..not sure how anyone can argue against that. 

In odi? Sure have them as number 1. I would put both on par. Can't really compare eras. 

 

Would have been interesting to see w.indies of those times vs peak Aussies of 1999-2007. 

 

I would say w Indies would have the edge due to superior bowling. Each to their own. 

[coffee_rules]

This is from what I have read and heard from elders at home. 

WI were not favored to win In 1975. Australia had dominated in the previous two test series against WI, were firm favorites, if not Eng. WI dominated all teams, but barely scraped through Pakistan in the semis. It was a chance run-out in the final that choked Australia.

 

But then , in the 70s , test series was real cricket, while ODIs were mere fun. It was not taken seriously. 1979 WC, India was so pathetic, worse than say BD, lost to SL as well. Pak were better in this period ,thank god. We didn’t play Pak until 1992 in WCs

 

But all through 75-83. WI dominated all teams in ODIs. The first time they lost at home to India was in the 1982-83 series:

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83-62309/west-indies-vs-india-2nd-odi-64209/full-scorecard
 

They also lost to India in one of the preliminary matches before the famous final in 83 WC

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/prudential-world-cup-1983-60832/india-vs-west-indies-14th-match-65077/full-scorecard
 

I think these two matches would have given India a lot of confidence to face WI in the finals. 

The final loss is like one in a million chance happening, nobody giving any chance to India. Until Kapil Dev caught IVAR, there was no hope and then WI just choked. 
 

In 1985, WI just met Pak in the SF, WI were a divided team with Lloyd aging and the team didn’t bat well. They played only SL before the SFs and were out of match practice. 5 wickets to Muddassar Nazar is a testament to their performance. Spent force, with Roberts retired and Holding was old. 
 

The ODI team of WI 70-80 is not of the legends as the dominating Aus team of 1999-2007.  But still, they are not as inconsistent as the WI T20 team as of the two WC WI teams to compare. But then, T20 is a different ball game than ODIs. I still can’t believe WI chased down 193 against India in India in 2016. 
 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by coffee_rules

[Jay]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

This is from what I have read and heard from elders at home. 

WI were not favored to win In 1975. Australia had dominated in the previous two test series against WI, were firm favorites, if not Eng. WI dominated all teams, but barely scraped through Pakistan in the semis. It was a chance run-out in the final that choked Australia.

 

But then , in the 70s , test series was real cricket, while ODIs were mere fun. It was not taken seriously. 1979 WC, India was so pathetic, worse than say BD, lost to SL as well. Pak were better in this period ,thank god. We didn’t play Pak until 1992 in WCs

 

But all through 75-83. WI dominated all teams in ODIs. The first time they lost at home to India was in the 1982-83 series:

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-west-indies-1982-83-62309/west-indies-vs-india-2nd-odi-64209/full-scorecard
 

They also lost to India in one of the preliminary matches before the famous final in 83 WC

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/prudential-world-cup-1983-60832/india-vs-west-indies-14th-match-65077/full-scorecard
 

I think these two matches would have given India a lot of confidence to face WI in the finals. 

The final loss is like one in a million chance happening, nobody giving any chance to India. Until Kapil Dev caught IVAR, there was no hope and then WI just choked. 
 

In 1985, WI just met Pak in the SF, WI were a divided team with Lloyd aging and the team didn’t bat well. They played only SL before the SFs and were out of match practice. 5 wickets to Muddassar Nazar is a testament to their performance. Spent force, with Roberts retired and Holding was old. 
 

The ODI team of WI 70-80 is not of the legends as the dominating Aus team of 1999-2007.  But still, they are not as inconsistent as the WI T20 team as of the two WC WI teams to compare. But then, T20 is a different ball game than ODIs. I still can’t believe WI chased down 193 against India in India in 2016. 
 

 

 

That chase of 193 was a fluke. Even more flukey Aussies winning vs s.africa in 1999 semi final. 

 

 

[Majestic]

Good thread. I would put Windies side as second best of all-time after Australia of 99-07.

 

However, they have won two World Cup and that is by all means a great achievement. The current Indian team haven't won any so it is important to win the 2023 WC.

[dilliboy]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

In odi? Sure have them as number 1. I would put both on par. Can't really compare eras. 

 

Would have been interesting to see w.indies of those times vs peak Aussies of 1999-2007. 

 

I would say w Indies would have the edge due to superior bowling. Each to their own. 

The absence of a WC spinner in their ranks is a glaring hole in that Windies line up.. They probably had the better fast bowlers but Australia had Warne and an overall superior batting line up.

Edited October 23, 2021 by dilliboy

[Jay]

32 minutes ago, dilliboy said:

The absence of a WC spinner in their ranks is a glaring hole in that Windies line up.. They probably had the better fast bowlers but Australia had Warne and an overall superior batting line up.

True. That's fair. I love fast bowling so maybe I was a little biased.

[Serpico]

Their knockout record wasn't bad, 2.3 w/l is still champion stuff. Comparing that team with current WI t20 team is a joke

 

 

But Aus 99-09 was just another level

 

 

 

[Serpico]

Didn't realise that India won most ODI knockouts till date.

 

Aussie w/l is elite though