How many current players would make it to our All-time Indian Test XI?

[Jay]

Personal 11 based on what I believe is an all conditions team; I only will have one spinner Max. Infact I prefer non overseas. But yes this is my list;

 

Gavaskar

Sachin ( going with him opening)

Dravid

Hazare

Merchant (laxman too a good option)

Pant (wk)

Kapil dev (captain)

Jadeja (surprise surprise...chandra other option)

Srinath

Shami

Bumrah

 

Complete bowling. Good all rounders. Reason I dint include ashwin is cause I needed an all conditions team with balance. 

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, sarchasm said:

 

Don't think it has anything to do with emotion per se. I started following cricket the year kapil retired in 1994 and I think I used to prefer Salil Ankola over Kapil at that time.

 

Rather, it's a case of acknowledging the simple truth that a quick bowler who consistently bowled 25 percent more balls each innings than the fast bowlers of today, with Sandhu and Binny as support from the other end, will eventually take a toll on the body and bowling output. These things have a cascading, accumulative effect after a number of years.

 

It might be objectively true that Kapil's bowling flagged after 1983 - 6 years since his debut. And yet, he was serviceable to good in five years till he retired after 1983. In comparison, I am looking at Zaheer who had a grand total of 4 good years in his 14 years long career. This comparison is not to diminish Zaheer but to highlight what Kapil achieved as the lone hand.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that Bumrah is objectively a better bowler than Kapil in every possible ways. I am not sure about the rest, however. Can Shami and Umesh and Siraj bowl 25 percent more balls per inning with team mates like Dodda Ganesh and Maninder Singh and still return the averages they have? Yeah, not happening. And their pace will be in gutter after 5 years of international cricket.

 

 

Most of the above points are true.

 

But my simple point is that ... Kapil Dev, the test match bowler, did not really come across as an A+ bowler in the 12 years I have seen him bowl.  Top pacers, who are overworked, look very dangerous in patches, which he didn't.

 

He did not have that many dangerous deliveries that top bowlers have. 

 

I have watched Hadlee bowl when he was over the hill and in his late 30s. Pace was gone and he did not have any support either throughout his life. But he still looked dangerous in certain spells.

 

Never got the same feeling with Kapil except the Australia tour of 1991-92, when he was just awesome as a bowler despite much reduced pace and bounce. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by express bowling

[Lord]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

"similar" means he should be winning.  For the record

 

2016

 

Jadeja 5 tests 224 runs 37.33 avge 26 wickets@25.84

Ashwin 5 tests 306 runs 43.71 avge 28 wickets@30.25

 

Niether of them won the man of the series. Kohli due to two man of the match performances was given man of the series. 

 

Jaddu win a man of the match.  KOhli 2. Moeen 1. Last one was Karun Nair.  Ashwin took 12 wickets still award went to Karun Nair on a placid surface. Fair enough. But let us not pretend Ashwin completely went awol.  Jaddu due to his impressive ER averaged better

 

eh? Ashwin took 1 wicket in the game. It was Jaddu who took 7 wickets in 2nd innings to force a win out of sure draw.

[Lord]

in Asia

 

Sehwag

SMG

Dravid

SRT

Laxman

Pant

Kapil

Jaddu

Ashwin

Srinath

Shami

 

Away from Asia.

 

SMG

Vijay

Dravid

SRT

Laxman

Pant

Kapil

Srinath

Bumrah

Shami

Chandra

 

 

[zen]

A team with preference given to current players (the focus of this thread) where the quality is more or less equal:

 

#1 Gavaskar -> ATG opener who is good with both pace and spin, and in most conditions 

#2 Sehwag -> Revolutionized high strike rate opening batting in tests, Bradmanesque in Asia

#3 Pujara -> For his great record in Asia and the herculean effort to win Ind a series for the first time in Aus 

#4 X -> Anyone from Tendulkar, Dravid, VVS, ... 

#5 Kohli -> A competitive most conditions batsman 

#6 Vinoo Mankad -> Spin bowling AR (if he bowled in post 1990 era in India, his bowling stats would be great too). Has a 200 opening the batting for India  

#7 Pant -> For his relatively promising batting record in SENA so far 

#8 Kapil -> Fast medium pace bowling AR 

#9 Shami -> Pace bowler

#10 Bumrah -> Pace bowler 

#11 Chandra -> Mystery spinner 

 

5 current players in the 11!

Edited January 2, 2022 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

The blockhead sarchas will beat everyone by a country mile. 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, sarchasm said:

 

Sure? Not the guy who suggested Ashwin was hard done by for not given MoTM in Chennai for picking 1 for 207 against Eng?

 

I got the  match mixed up Big deal. He did take 12fer in a match. Kohli got man of the match . I said Nair. Big deal.  mhe.

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

in Asia

 

Sehwag

SMG

Dravid

SRT

Laxman

Pant

Kapil

Jaddu

Ashwin

Srinath

Shami

 

Away from Asia.

 

SMG

Vijay

Dravid

SRT

Laxman

Pant

Kapil

Srinath

Bumrah

Shami

Chandra

 

 

You mean vijay hazare or merchant or Murali loool?

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

You mean vijay hazare or merchant or Murali loool?

m vijay lol

 

Couldnt remember anyone who did well in all SENA nations. He was closest from memory. Maybe KL too lol

[Jay]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

m vijay lol

 

Couldnt remember anyone who did well in all SENA nations. He was closest from memory. Maybe KL too lol

He did do well. He underachieved imo. Kid was talented. 

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Lord said:

m vijay lol

 

Couldnt remember anyone who did well in all SENA nations. He was closest from memory. Maybe KL too lol

 

I guess, a player has to be considered at ATG level or close to be in an ATG 11 ... Murali Vijay is neither an ATG nor a highly specialized option to be considered in such 11s 

[vvvslaxman]

Actual thread is about "current players" walking to all time XI :)  So technically it shouldn't be a list of XI. It should just be the names that you think will make ATG india XI. 

I think career should be over to make that call if you ask me. Who knows Kohli might suck more a couple more years and his average will go well below 50 and head towards Rahane. He may resurrect himself as well. Hope he does. 

[Majestic]

16 minutes ago, Lord said:

m vijay lol

 

Couldnt remember anyone who did well in all SENA nations. He was closest from memory. Maybe KL too lol

Batting average in SENA :-

 

Sehwag - 1788 runs, AVG 33, 100s 4

Vijay - 1285 runs, AVG 30, 100s 2

 

Sometimes perception force us to make wrong picks. This is one. Vijay was good during a certain period in away matches but that period was small. His overall stats don't outperform Sehwag even in SENA.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2100;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Most of the above points are true.

 

But my simple point is that ... Kapil Dev, the test match bowler, did not really come across as an A+ bowler in the 12 years I have seen him bowl.  Top pacers, who are overworked, look very dangerous in patches, which he didn't.

 

He did not have that many dangerous deliveries that top bowlers have. 

 

I have watched Hadlee bowl when he was over the hill and in his late 30s. Pace was gone and he did not have any support either throughout his life. But he still looked dangerous in certain spells.

 

Never got the same feeling with Kapil except the Australia tour of 1991-92, when he was just awesome as a bowler despite much reduced pace and bounce. 

Kapil, in the teams that have selected him, would be a third pacer. What is not acceptable for a lead bowler is tolerable for a third pacer in my opinion. Moreover, one reason I didn't have both Ash + Jaddu together is because neither are fully proven outside SC when taken over their career - they have, however, shown improvement in recent times. I think our 5th bowler in an all-time XI will always have chinks. Kapil was not consistent throughout, whereas the above issue applies to Ash+Jaddu. I think any of these 3, along with the highly underrated Vinoo Mankad, are good choices.

[Vijy]

As the OP, glad to see that this thread has generated a lot of healthy debate and many interesting teams.

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Vijy said:

Kapil, in the teams that have selected him, would be a third pacer. What is not acceptable for a lead bowler is tolerable for a third pacer in my opinion. Moreover, one reason I didn't have both Ash + Jaddu together is because neither are fully proven outside SC when taken over their career - they have, however, shown improvement in recent times. I think our 5th bowler in an all-time XI will always have chinks. Kapil was not consistent throughout, whereas the above issue applies to Ash+Jaddu. I think any of these 3, along with the highly underrated Vinoo Mankad, are good choices.

 

 

Yours is a good and logically selected team too.

 

I don't have issues if Kapil is chosen in an ATG 11. In fact, that is the expected course of action and my choice is the one that will raise eyebrows. And a team, with Kapil as the 3rd pacer, won't be bad in any way either. 

 

I explained to you earlier the reason why I chose the team I did.  Primarily because it was an all-condition team and I wanted 3 types of pure fast bowlers in my attack.

 

Bumrah and Shami are the 2 first choices IMO.  Srinath and Kapil were very similar in terms if either wicket taking ability or stemming runs in test matches. And both were good in India too. So the choice between them boils down to whether one wants extra pace and bounce or a swing bowling all-rounder.  

 

My preference is well known.   : )

 

P.S -- There should actually be 2 sets of bowlers for tests in Asia and outside Asia

 

 

Tests in Asia ----

 

7. Jadeja

8. Ashwin

9. Kumble

10. Shami

11. Bumrah 

 

 

Tests outside Asia ----

 

7. Jadeja / Ashwin

8. Kapil

9. Srinath

10. Shami

11. Bumrah 

 

I know that Bumrah is untested in tests in India but his ability to bowl 90 mph accurate indipping yorkers at will and reverse the ball accurately at pace means that he will do as well in India too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vijy]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

 

Yours is a good and logically selected team too.

 

I don't have issues if Kapil is chosen in an ATG 11. In fact, that is the expected course of action and my choice is the one that will raise eyebrows. And a team, with Kapil as the 3rd pacer, won't be bad in any way either. 

 

I explained to you earlier the reason why I chose the team I did.  Primarily because it was an all-condition team and I wanted 3 types of pure fast bowlers in my attack.

 

Bumrah and Shami are the 2 first choices IMO.  Srinath and Kapil were very similar in terms if either wicket taking ability or stemming runs in test matches. And both were good in India too. So the choice between them boils down to whether one wants extra pace and bounce or a swing bowling all-rounder.  

 

My preference is well known.   : )

 

P.S -- There should actually be 2 sets of bowlers for tests in Asia and outside Asia

 

 

Tests in Asia ----

 

7. Jadeja

8. Ashwin

9. Kumble

10. Shami

11. Bumrah 

 

 

Tests outside Asia ----

 

7. Jadeja / Ashwin

8. Kapil

9. Srinath

10. Shami

11. Bumrah 

 

I know that Bumrah is untested in tests in India but his ability to bowl 90 mph accurate indipping yorkers at will and reverse the ball accurately at pace means that he will do as well in India too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yep, I agree. this is the best horses-for-courses selection. however, since I wanted a single XI, I went for Chandra who has done well home and abroad instead. If one can differentiate between SC, NZ/Eng, and Oz/SA/old WI, then I think the above two lineups would work.

[zen]

A “good to watch” 11 from the top of the mind recall: 

 

Gavaskar - circumspect but for technical solidity 

Sehwag 

Mankad

Vishwanath 

Tendulkar 

VVS

Pant

Kapil

Shami

Bumrah 

Chandra 

 

[Vijy]

36 minutes ago, zen said:

A “good to watch” 11 from the top of the mind recall: 

 

Gavaskar - circumspect but for technical solidity 

Sehwag 

Mankad

Vishwanath 

Tendulkar 

VVS

Pant

Kapil

Shami

Bumrah 

Chandra 

 

you should swap mankad and gavaskar IMO. mankad's best position was opening. And Gavaskar would provide the required solidity at 3.

[vvvslaxman]

If the ball doesn't rise above knee my first pick would be Azharuddin lol He can be outrageously brilliant in such conditions.