The Indian Pace Bowling Pool need more Bounce Bowlers ... We suffered in South Africa because we could not use bounce as a weapon against ther top 6 batters

[CG]

Siraj is a great find.He can run through sides in helpful conditions ,Bumrah should be our enforcer and Shami is line and length bowler.A tall bowler like Avesh, Prasidh will add variety to attack as will a left arm pacer .

[Jaydev_Unadkat]

4 minutes ago, CG said:

Siraj is a great find.He can run through sides in helpful conditions ,Bumrah should be our enforcer and Shami is line and length bowler.A tall bowler like Avesh, Prasidh will add variety to attack as will a left arm pacer .

by variety u men leak runs and bowl like an idiot

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

I'd say 90% of the time, the last 2 tours to Oz being extreme exceptions, we simply don't have bowlers who can stop leaking runs consistently when the pitch is flat - that is why we lose! It's cute that people think WI/Oz dominated at their peak just because they had tall bowlers

 

The biggest reason McGrath was part of the deadliest McWarne test combo was his control - of course it helped that Warne also had the best control of a genuine leggie in decades!

 

Control is a must. But needs to be combined with other attributes. 

 

If McGrath were 5'9" and non-bouncy or Warne did not get big side-spin, but both had same control, then they would not have achieved as much. 

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

You cannot have same bowlers, you don’t need genius to tell that, 

 

india did not lose first test due to lack of variety. Main bowlers did not show up and  support bowlers had no weapons to get batsmen out.

The second part they did not use seam and bounce that is why they conceded 400+ runs on 240 par pitch and conditions. 

Today they got it right and had some luck tooz they beat the bat many times in Centurion too but got 0 wickets. 

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

They did not lose first test due to their inability to get bounce either . 

It was a pretty big factor. 

[Vk1]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Control is a must. But needs to be combined with other attributes. 

 

If McGrath were 5'9" and non-bouncy or Warne did not get big side-spin, but both had same control, then they would not have achieved as much. 

McGrath & Pollock were famous for those channel balls.. most of it was due to their height coupled with accuracy

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

The second part they did not use seam and bounce that is why they conceded 400+ runs on 240 par pitch and conditions. 

Today they got it right and had some luck tooz they beat the bat many times in Centurion too but got 0 wickets. 

 Top of offstump is what any bowler will aim for on any wicket.Depending on bounce they will change their length.

 

 

You need ability to do it consistently and that is where they failed in first test.Praish Krsihna has looked the most innocuous bowler  even on this pitch.

 

PK and Thakur never could build any pressure.

Edited January 3 by putrevus

[harpicP]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

 Top of offstump is what any bowler will aim for on any wicket.Depending on bounce they will change their length.

 

 

You need ability to do it consistently and that is where they failed in first test.Praish Krsihna has looked the most innocuous bowler  even on this pitch.

 

PK and Thakur never could build any pressure.

I'd you keep leaking as a third bowler then you are screwed. Shami was sorely missed. A ishant type player is qhat we need to keep it tight.

[harpicP]

11 hours ago, Jaydev_Unadkat said:

Mukesh Kumar owning phaaast bowling coaches of ICf again 

Just need to control the runs a little bit. Seaming beautifully. Can't blame bowlers if we lose though, our pathetic batsmen are useless. They dont deserve shite. 

[harpicP]

If you can't get wickets then fine. Ok. Just build pressure. Don't leak

 

This goes to pissadh and everyone actually. 

 

Gumrah for leaking early Pos salah.

[harpicP]

10 hours ago, R!TTER said:

I'd say 90% of the time, the last 2 tours to Oz being extreme exceptions, we simply don't have bowlers who can stop leaking runs consistently when the pitch is flat - that is why we lose! It's cute that people think WI/Oz dominated at their peak just because they had tall bowlers

 

The biggest reason McGrath was part of the deadliest McWarne test combo was his control - of course it helped that Warne also had the best control of a genuine leggie in decades!

We can in Asia but not in Sen. We have been quite good in aus for a long time now. 

 

Even England we have been good in bowling. But SA and NZ have been 2 places where we struggle

 Bowlers I mean.

[sensible-indian]

34 minutes ago, harpicP said:

We can in Asia but not in Sen. We have been quite good in aus for a long time now. 

 

Even England we have been good in bowling. But SA and NZ have been 2 places where we struggle

 Bowlers I mean.

From 2006 to 2021...we used to perform decently in SA.

 

We never had a bad tour to SA while we had horror tours to Eng, Aus, NZ in that timeframe.

 

Look at how the game changed in SA.

 

Same way, just cos we won in aus twice doesnt mean we will perform well there always.

 

This team would be whitewashed by the Aussies in Aus.

 

Its sleepy, lethargic and lacking in motivation and skillset.

 

We need to have a complete change in the way we approach test cricket.

 

Even if we fluke a win in this test due to SA collapsing to 55, it shouldnt change that fact.

 

Heck, we were on track to draw a series in Bangladesh and lose against Aus at home until some great performances saved us from the embarassment.

Edited January 3 by sensible-indian

[harpicP]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

From 2006 to 2021...we used to perform decently in SA.

 

We never had a bad tour to SA while we had horror tours to Eng, Aus, NZ in that timeframe.

 

Look at how the game changed in SA.

 

Same way, just cos we won in aus twice doesnt mean we will perform well there always.

 

This team would be whitewashed by the Aussies in Aus.

 

Its sleepy, lethargic and lacking in motivation and skillset.

 

We need to have a complete change in the way we approach test cricket.

 

Even if we fluke a win in this test due to SA collapsing to 55, it shouldnt change that fact.

 

Heck, we were on track to draw a series in Bangladesh and lose against Aus at home until some great performances saved us from the embarassment.

Yea blame the batting is what I am saying. 

I meant just bowling

 We bowled well in aus in almost all tours except that 2011 2012 tour. 

It's our batting that let's us down. 

 

In SA as well we bowled well in all tours except 2013 where bowling let us down. 

 

Usually it's always piss poor batting technique that costs us. We never once scored 300 last time in SAin test 2 and 3. One time we did we won.

 

In England apart from test t where we were under prepared our bowlers bowled well. 

 

Apart from 2012 and 2014 tour we bowled well. Again our batting let us down time and time again.

 

I'm 2018 batting let us down in England. 

 

Nz is one place where we haven't been good due to poor technique vs swing sine 2014. 

[Adamant]

On 12/30/2023 at 5:23 PM, Adamant said:

Last time we toured England, I read some gems like we should use Umran Malik like our own Mark Wood and intimidate English Batsman, the whole pace merchants fan following group was supporting that. 

I don't know why I still expect sanity here. 

 

Mukesh Kumar will be a better choice in SA than Sen, Prasidh actually even Siraj

@Rightarmfast whos laughing now?

 

Anyone who has a working brain and knows test cricket would realise that a bowler like Mukesh is worth his weight in Gold in these kind of conditions (SEN)

 

The problem with him is height bcoz pf which he would prove expensive on flatter pitches and hence we should follow horses for courses approach 

[Adamant]

If we get someone like Ishant circa 2016-2020 we will dominate batting lineups more often than not.

 

Lets hope we get a rich mans version of Mukesh Kumar soon, I am betting on Arshdeep. 

[Rightarmfast]

25 minutes ago, Adamant said:

@Rightarmfast whos laughing now?

 

Anyone who has a working brain and knows test cricket would realise that a bowler like Mukesh is worth his weight in Gold in these kind of conditions (SEN)

 

The problem with him is height bcoz pf which he would prove expensive on flatter pitches and hence we should follow horses for courses approach 

Ohh, I suppose you are referring this for me? Anybody who has a working brain and knows test cricket would realise that it is entirely foolish to start jumping from just 1 performance. And a performance which was full of no balls, and on a pitch that had extra help for bowlers. Hold your horses. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

 

Anyone who  knows test cricket would realise that a bowler like Mukesh is worth his weight in Gold in these kind of conditions (SEN)

 

The problem with him is height bcoz pf which he would prove expensive on flatter pitches and hence we should follow horses for courses approach 

 

These days, even in SEN, in a significant percentage of tests, the pitches are flattening out in innings 4 and sometimes even in innings 3. The challenge is to have some pacers who can take wickets in these conditions too. England scored 370 odd for 3 and SA 240 odd for 3 and 210 odd for 3 in the 4th innings in 3 tests we lost in 2022 in England and SA. 

 

Starting 1983, Indians have always had pacers who could combine accuracy and movement and do well in helpful conditions. Bhuvi and Mukesh fall in this category and I expect them to do well in such conditions. 

 

The challenge is to succeed and dominate in conditions when the ball is not moving much.

 

2017 to 2021 was probably the only period in Indian history when we had 2 pacers, Bumrah and Shami, bowling in tandem, who could act as enforcer pacers while maintaining accuracy. And a tall accurate pacer, Ishant, who provided control from.a high release point. Which is why the success in Auatralia and England in this period. Now Bumrah snd Shami have lost the fiery element in their bowling. 

 

This thread is about finding the new enforcer pacers who have control too. More than individusl names, it is about finding a couple who fit the bill after trying them out. 

 

Mukesh type control- pacers are needed too, but, as you said, preferably tall ones like Ishant. 

Edited January 4 by express bowling

[harpicP]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

If we get someone like Ishant circa 2016-2020 we will dominate batting lineups more often than not.

 

Lets hope we get a rich mans version of Mukesh Kumar soon, I am betting on Arshdeep. 

Arshdeep 

Tyagi

Avesh

Harshit

Mayak

 

These boys

[harpicP]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

These days, even in SEN, in a significant percentage of tests, the pitches are flattening out in innings 4 and sometimes even in innings 3. The challenge is to have some pacers who can take wickets in these conditions too. England scored 370 odd for 3 and SA 240 odd for 3 and 210 odd for 3 in the 4th innings in 3 tests we lost in 2022 in England and SA. 

 

Starting 1983, Indians have always had pacers who could combine accuracy and movement and do well in helpful conditions. Bhuvi and Mukesh fall in this category and I expect them to do well in such conditions. 

 

The challenge is to succeed and dominate in conditions when the ball is not moving much.

 

2017 to 2021 was probably the only period in Indian history when we had 2 pacers, Bumrah and Shami, bowling in tandem, who could act as enforcer pacers while maintaining accuracy. And a tall accurate pacer, Ishant, who provided control from.a high release point. Which is why the success in Auatralia and England in this period. Now Bumrah snd Shami have lost the fiery element in their bowling. 

 

This thread is about finding the new enforcer pacers who have control too. More than individusl names, it is about finding a couple who fit the bill after trying them out. 

 

Mukesh type control- pacers are needed too, but, as you said, preferably tall ones like Ishant. 

Yes but Cummins starc and SA attack also suck royally bad on flatter surfaces. Even worse. 

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, harpicP said:

Yes but Cummins starc and SA attack also suck royally bad on flatter surfaces. Even worse. 

 

Still much better than us.  Australia is winning almost everything. And in the best years for these countries in the last 50 years, they have been dangerous.