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The Indian Pace Bowling Pool need more Bounce Bowlers ... We suffered in South Africa because we could not use bounce as a weapon against ther top 6 batters

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3 minutes ago, CG said:

Variety is always good.We have saini,prasidh,avesh.They can play the role.But In Sa Guys like Philandar are unplayable.We bowled well but Lacked runs.We can't win with 3 batsman and Tail which starts from 2

 

Philander is one type but can't be the only type in South Africa.

 

We are trying to play with ONLY medium and short height skiddy pacers. 

 

This is making the bowling attack too one dimensional.

 

Bumrah used to be the bouncy enforcer from 2017 to 2020 ... and we started doing really well in tests when Bumrah was introduced in tests in January 2018.

 

But Bumrah is moving away from that style. 

 

Now we lack the bouncy enforcer in early 2022.

 

The line and length seam and swing bowler can't be the only bowling type in the attack.

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Just now, express bowling said:

 

Philander is one type but can't be the only type in South Africa.

 

We are trying to play with ONLY medium and short height skiddy pacers. 

 

This is making the bowling attack too one dimensional.

 

Bumrah used to be the bouncy enforcer from 2017 to 2020 ... and we started doing really well in tests when Bumrah was introduced in tests in January 2018.

 

But Bumrah is moving away from that style. 

 

Now we lack the bouncy enforcer in early 2022.

 

The line and length seam and swing bowler can't be the only bowling type in the attack.

Bumrah and shami are multi dimensional bowlers.If you remember shami spell last tour of Sa  Joberg he used play enforcer role with back of length bowling .We won After Sa were 100-2.I think bowling coach change has affected planning.Kohli talked about height in pc so we will see some changes with ishant most likely being replaced.

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1 minute ago, CG said:

Bumrah and shami are multi dimensional bowlers.If you remember shami spell last tour of Sa  Joberg he used play enforcer role with back of length bowling .We won After Sa were 100-2.I think bowling coach change has affected planning.Kohli talked about height in pc so we will see some changes with ishant most likely being replaced.

 

 

I know that Bumrah and Shami are multi dimensional bowlers.

 

If you go through my OP, I have mentioned this many times that both used to use bounce rather frequently even a year back.

 

But they are changing their bowling styles.

 

As you said ... bowling coach change may have affected bowling style plans.

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5 minutes ago, CG said:

Bumrah and shami are multi dimensional bowlers.If you remember shami spell last tour of Sa  Joberg he used play enforcer role with back of length bowling .We won After Sa were 100-2.I think bowling coach change has affected planning.Kohli talked about height in pc so we will see some changes with ishant most likely being replaced.

 

That is a good point. Coach played a big role there.

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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

What did Kohli say ?

He talked about how sa bowlers got more bounce  due to height advantage and we're tough on these pitches finished saying how our bowling attack is all conditions attack and best in world in recent times

Edited by CG
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I thought Shami and Bumrah did fine. They were at the batsmen ball after ball and kept the pressure on for most parts. What we struggled with were the support bowlers. Siraj and Yadav failed to keep the pressure on and not leak runs. Thakur was a bit hot or cold. Ashwin was completely useless on these pitches.

 

After the first Test, there was a thread asking whether our fast bowling attack was better than Australian one and since at that time, we had just won the first Test, many posters were of the opinion that Indian pace attack is the best in the World. However, here is the big difference: our support bowlers bowl a bit hot or cold, while if you look at Australia's ones, in their first choice attack, Pat Cummins actually comes up as first change bowler after Starc-Hazlewood. How good is that? Even bowlers like Boland, who they just picked due to multiple injuries to first choice bowlers, is able to keep the pressure.

 

In my opinion, that is what we need: bowlers who are able to keep the pressure at the batsmen ball after ball, not giving them any freebies, keep the intensity high and make it very difficult for the batsman to score any runs while testing them on different fronts (swing seam and bounce).

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1 minute ago, Texan said:

I thought Shami and Bumrah did fine. They were at the batsmen ball after ball and kept the pressure on for most parts. What we struggled with were the support bowlers. Siraj and Yadav failed to keep the pressure on and not leak runs. Thakur was a bit hot or cold. Ashwin was completely useless on these pitches.

 

After the first Test, there was a thread asking whether our fast bowling attack was better than Australian one and since at that time, we had just won the first Test, many posters were of the opinion that Indian pace attack is the best in the World. However, here is the big difference: our support bowlers bowl a bit hot or cold, while if you look at Australia's ones, in their first choice attack, Pat Cummins actually comes up as first change bowler after Starc-Hazlewood. How good is that? Even bowlers like Boland, who they just picked due to multiple injuries to first choice bowlers, is able to keep the pressure.

 

In my opinion, that is what we need: bowlers who are able to keep the pressure at the batsmen ball after ball, not giving them any freebies, keep the intensity high and make it very difficult for the batsman to score any runs while testing them on different fronts (swing seam and bounce).

Australian Fast bowling is good but against Lefthanders Cummins is not as good.Starc is good for ashes otherwise he blows hot and cold .Every attack is good at home.

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7 minutes ago, Texan said:

I thought Shami and Bumrah did fine. They were at the batsmen ball after ball and kept the pressure on for most parts. What we struggled with were the support bowlers. Siraj and Yadav failed to keep the pressure on and not leak runs. Thakur was a bit hot or cold. Ashwin was completely useless on these pitches.

 

After the first Test, there was a thread asking whether our fast bowling attack was better than Australian one and since at that time, we had just won the first Test, many posters were of the opinion that Indian pace attack is the best in the World. However, here is the big difference: our support bowlers bowl a bit hot or cold, while if you look at Australia's ones, in their first choice attack, Pat Cummins actually comes up as first change bowler after Starc-Hazlewood. How good is that? Even bowlers like Boland, who they just picked due to multiple injuries to first choice bowlers, is able to keep the pressure.

 

In my opinion, that is what we need: bowlers who are able to keep the pressure at the batsmen ball after ball, not giving them any freebies, keep the intensity high and make it very difficult for the batsman to score any runs while testing them on different fronts (swing seam and bounce).

 

 

Bumrah and Shami should obviously remain.

 

They are very good.

 

But the 3rd pacer should be a tall and quick bounce bowler like Prasidh or anyone else who fits the bill.

 

IMO

 

Bumrah - Shami - Prasidh 

 

looks far more well rounded than

 

Bumrah - Shami - Umesh

 

** And Bumrah and Shami should try to use bounce like they did till 2020.

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Even in the WTC Final 2021, Shami was getting a lot of bounce on a lesser bouncy track than SA.

 

Bumrah was very bouncy even in Australia 2020-21. And most series before that.

I cannot help but think that his injury has changed this.  Not an expert, but I can see how you need an extremely strong core to consistently hit the deck hard.  After an abdominal muscle tear, it cannot be easy to recreate that pre-injury ability.  

 

Not sure what Shami's issue is, but it could simply be wear and tear.

 

It is really disturbing that Siraj is injured so much.  Hopefully, it is just a phase (even Cummins went through this) and he will come back stronger.  We need him badly as an every-match bowler.  Hope we get enough bench strength with K. Tyagi, Prasidh Krishna, Umran Malik etc.    

Edited by BacktoCricaddict
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9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I know that Bumrah and Shami are multi dimensional bowlers.

 

If you go through my OP, I have mentioned this many times that both used to use bounce rather frequently even a year back.

 

But they are changing their bowling styles.

 

As you said ... bowling coach change may have affected bowling style plans.

Is it hard for Mhambray to imitate what worked well for us in tests especially

Its not rocket science that SA conditions are 65% Aus +35% England,to exploit the majority we should have gone with more hit the deck approach

One thing which i found interesting, Saini who is a skiddy bowler did quite well in A matches just before,yes pitches may have been different but at times in good rythm Saini is quite hostile ,i remember him famously bamboozling Warner in a tour match when Australia visited us in 2017,that was a red hot Saini there

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We need Siraj. His aggressive attitude alone is  a big plus.  Excellent test match length bowler. Complements Shami/Bumrah well.  He has just has to stay fit. Next is Thakur. Honestly he has completely surprised me with his numbers. I never thought of him as a bowler in any format. There is something about him. He mixes up the ball very well.  Umesh is better on surface with aberration.

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23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I know that Bumrah and Shami are multi dimensional bowlers.

 

 

 

Shami is  among the top 3 bowlers in the world.... Shami is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

In this series Shami has 14 wickets in 3 tests ..... Shardul has 13 wickets in 3 tests. (Shami bowls with new ball, Shardul does not)

 

Shami had 8 wickets in first test, Shardul had 8 in second. If you take that test away from each, Shami has 6 wickets in other 4 innings, Shardul has 5 wickets.

 

Shami is basically the rich man's or upper middle class man's Shardul bowing wise.

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