Babar Azam, Stats Padder or Real Deal ?

[Chakdephatte]

2 hours ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

He might be a stat padder to some degree but...

 

That's the whole point

 

2 hours ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

Very weird comment bro. Bobar averages like over 52 against the big 5(Aus, Eng, Nz, Ind, Sa).

 

Never doubted it. But he plays a hell lot of matches against minnows, not his fault, but he does.

 

2 hours ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

He might be a stat padder to some degree but he easily clears guys like KL, Shubman, Dhawan.

 

KL is not a great, Dhawan is as good as Babar. Shubman played just 8 matches.

 

2 hours ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

Very weird comment bro. Bobar averages like over 52 against the big 5(Aus, Eng, Nz, Ind, Sa). He might be a stat padder to some degree but he easily clears guys like KL, Shubman, Dhawan.

 

Agree actually. My response was for his fanboys who compares him to Kohli, Abd, or Sachin.

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

2 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

Dhawan is as good as Babar.

That's cap of epic proportions.

[Majestic]

Babar's problem is his strike rate in T20s. Against top 8 opposition's, his strike rate is 129.

 

For Kohli, it is 137.

 

Rohit - 140

Warner - 141

Buttler - 144

 

Would you call Babar a elite t20 batsman when you compare those stats(average and strike rate both)? I would be doubtful.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=3;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=21;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting

[Lord]

21 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Babar's problem is his strike rate in T20s. Against top 8 opposition's, his strike rate is 129.

 

For Kohli, it is 137.

 

Rohit - 140

Warner - 141

Buttler - 144

 

Would you call Babar a elite t20 batsman when you compare those stats(average and strike rate both)? I would be doubtful.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=3;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=21;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting

 

You picked Argentina instead of Australia

 

Kohli still leads in correct numbers

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=3;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting

[TheWall]

On 6/12/2022 at 5:20 PM, Adamant said:

The best batsman in the world all formats combined. 

Shouldn't even be a question. 

 

The likes of Rahul, Markram all competed with him for a while but Babar has destroyed them with his consistency. 

 

 

And won the World Cup...

[TheWall]

Zim planning to provide citizenship to Babar...

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

16 hours ago, Majestic said:

Babar's problem is his strike rate in T20s. Against top 8 opposition's, his strike rate is 129.

 

For Kohli, it is 137.

 

Rohit - 140

Warner - 141

Buttler - 144

 

Would you call Babar a elite t20 batsman when you compare those stats(average and strike rate both)? I would be doubtful.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=3;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=21;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting

This whole T20 Sr thing is very misunderstood by most people. Both Babar and Kohli have around the same SR against the top 5 teams. Every team ranked below the top five is absolutely mediocre to put is simply. Babar has a Sr of 134 against the big 5 while Kohli Sr against the same teams is 136.6. Here's the kicker that changes these stats completely. Babar's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 142.1, Kohli's Sr also improves outside of the UAE. Kohli's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 138.1.

 

I'm not saying Kohli isn't a better striker than Babar because he likely is. All I'm saying is that Babar doesn't bat as slowly against top teams as people think be does. He bats as quickly as most other batsmen in the T20 format. The UAE miss represents his overall Sr because Pakistan has been playing most of its T20 matches in the UAE until recently. 

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

Just now, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

This whole T20 Sr thing is very misunderstood by most people. Both Babar and Kohli have around the same SR against the top 5 teams. Every team ranked below the top five is absolutely mediocre to put is simply. Babar has a Sr of 134 against the big 5 while Kohli Sr against the same teams is 136.6. Here's the kicker that changes these stats completely. Babar's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 142.1, Kohli's Sr also improves outside of the UAE. Kohli's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 138.1.

 

I'm not saying Kohli isn't a better striker than Babar because he likely is. All I'm saying is that Babar doesn't bat as slowly against top teams as people think be does. He bats as quickly as most other batsmen in the T20 format. The UAE miss represents his overall Sr because Pakistan has been playing most of its T20 matches in the UAE until recently. 

Excuse the typos.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

This whole T20 Sr thing is very misunderstood by most people. Both Babar and Kohli have around the same SR against the top 5 teams. Every team ranked below the top five is absolutely mediocre to put is simply. Babar has a Sr of 134 against the big 5 while Kohli Sr against the same teams is 136.6. Here's the kicker that changes these stats completely. Babar's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 142.1, Kohli's Sr also improves outside of the UAE. Kohli's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 138.1.

 

I'm not saying Kohli isn't a better striker than Babar because he likely is. All I'm saying is that Babar doesn't bat as slowly against top teams as people think be does. He bats as quickly as most other batsmen in the T20 format. The UAE miss represents his overall Sr because Pakistan has been playing most of its T20 matches in the UAE until recently. 

I don't know why you have to filter it out to top 5 teams. Why is Babar's overall strike rate much lower than vs top 5 which I assume would be SENAI? Honestly, there is no reason to exclude Sri Lanka or West Indies or even Bangaladesh, they are all international standard team and have the likes of Hasaranga, Chameera, Holder, Alzarri etc. There is decent enough quality there. 

 

Also, Kohli did faced Malinga at its peak which you probably not including either. So, this top 5 comparison is futile especially in T20s where the margins are pretty small. 

 

Babar obviously is better than Williamson but my point still stands here that to be considered among elite t20 batters, he needs to up his strike rate. It shouldn't be any particular number like 135,136 or anything like that but atleast I would expect it to be in absolute 130s.

 

The UAE logic is also flawed one because pitches may not be as slow in bilaterals which Babar plays more than when it is in ICC tournaments which Kohli or others play and the sample size is also different and so do the opposition strength. There are numerous factors that could impact the final output.

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

I don't know why you have to filter it out to top 5 teams. Why is Babar's overall strike rate much lower than vs top 5 which I assume would be SENAI? Honestly, there is no reason to exclude Sri Lanka or West Indies or even Bangaladesh, they are all international standard team and have the likes of Hasaranga, Chameera, Holder, Alzarri etc. There is decent enough quality there. 

 

Also, Kohli did faced Malinga at its peak which you probably not including either. So, this top 5 comparison is futile especially in T20s where the margins are pretty small. 

 

Babar obviously is better than Williamson but my point still stands here that to be considered among elite t20 batters, he needs to up his strike rate. It shouldn't be any particular number like 135,136 or anything like that but atleast I would expect it to be in absolute 130s.

 

The UAE logic is also flawed one because pitches may not be as slow in bilaterals which Babar plays more than when it is in ICC tournaments which Kohli or others play and the sample size is also different and so do the opposition strength. There are numerous factors that could impact the final output.

I've been watching these teams play in the UAE for a while now and I can confirm that the pitches are slow even during the bilateral series. The pitches were so bad that teams were able to regularly defend scores below 140. I don't think a single team ranked below the top 5 is very good barring maybe SL. Almost all things in this argument are subjective. Both of us put a different amount of weigh on different attributes which is why we wont reach an agreement.

[vvvslaxman]

On 8/20/2022 at 1:41 PM, Lord said:

 

You picked Argentina instead of Australia

 

Kohli still leads in correct numbers

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=3;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting

 

lol@argentina

[raki05]

14 hours ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

This whole T20 Sr thing is very misunderstood by most people. Both Babar and Kohli have around the same SR against the top 5 teams. Every team ranked below the top five is absolutely mediocre to put is simply. Babar has a Sr of 134 against the big 5 while Kohli Sr against the same teams is 136.6. Here's the kicker that changes these stats completely. Babar's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 142.1, Kohli's Sr also improves outside of the UAE. Kohli's Sr outside of the UAE against the top 5 is 138.1.

 

I'm not saying Kohli isn't a better striker than Babar because he likely is. All I'm saying is that Babar doesn't bat as slowly against top teams as people think be does. He bats as quickly as most other batsmen in the T20 format. The UAE miss represents his overall Sr because Pakistan has been playing most of its T20 matches in the UAE until recently. 

Well if you look carefully none of the top5 play their main XI against Pakistan. Forget top 5, even zim, Netherland team dint play their main team against pak. Do you remember when was the last time when eng, aus, sa or NZ played their main xi against pak in T20 or odi against pak. I remember there was a series against aus and zim where Pakistani batter feasted on aus attack where other than finch not many main xi batter played and Billy Stanlakey was main bowler. 

[vvvslaxman]

Babar is technically a very good player. He can score quickly. But he often does inside powerplay. He doesn't have the acceleration capability of some of the other names. Nothing wrong with that.  What is his strike rate in his fifty plus scores. Ignoring associate sides Babar strike rate is 144 when he crosses 50. Not bad.  But his acceleration can be improved.

 

top 10 nations vs 10 nations, min 5 fifties. Rizwan appears to be better.

 

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

13 hours ago, raki05 said:

Well if you look carefully none of the top5 play their main XI against Pakistan. Forget top 5, even zim, Netherland team dint play their main team against pak. Do you remember when was the last time when eng, aus, sa or NZ played their main xi against pak in T20 or odi against pak. I remember there was a series against aus and zim where Pakistani batter feasted on aus attack where other than finch not many main xi batter played and Billy Stanlakey was main bowler. 

I won't filter someone's innings because the opposition's missing a bowler or two for some of the matches. If we started doing that over half the innings played by top class batsmen and bowlers would count for nothing. Babar is a proven batsman that's done well against "full-strength" bowling line up regularly. Earlier this year Babar won Pakistan a ODI series against SA in SA. Just a few months ago he won Pakistan a series against Aus. The man averaged over 65 in the 2019 world cup and he averages around 85 this year in ODIs.

 

I don't know why people still try to discredit his batting in 2022. It's time to move on.

[raki05]

1 hour ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

I won't filter someone's innings because the opposition's missing a bowler or two for some of the matches. If we started doing that over half the innings played by top class batsmen and bowlers would count for nothing. Babar is a proven batsman that's done well against "full-strength" bowling line up regularly. Earlier this year Babar won Pakistan a ODI series against SA in SA. Just a few months ago he won Pakistan a series against Aus. The man averaged over 65 in the 2019 world cup and he averages around 85 this year in ODIs.

 

I don't know why people still try to discredit his batting in 2022. It's time to move on.

For your own admission..the series in SA has bowlers like sipmala, mangla , Lynda and some other no names. Same goes in aus none of the top batters and bowlers played on those series. They all were playing ipl. Babar Azam is good player but I won't fall for his avg as none of the top team take these biletral seriously especially since COVID and most of the time they try their bench strength. Only pak play their main xi even against associate teams. Many top team play their b or c team when Pakistan tour their as it's not a big draw commercially. Having said that Babar is class player he is not an usual hack which Pakistan produce but his avg should be taken as pinch of salt.

Edited August 22, 2022 by raki05

[Majestic]

For Babar, the conclusion would be that he is no doubt quality and is a better ODI batsman than anyone not named Kohli or Rohit from this generation from SC.

 

In Tests, he is better than anyone not named Kohli from SC.

 

In T20s, he is better than anyone not named Kohli again due to Kohli's World T20 performances. Rohit falters a bit due to not dominating any WT20 performance. As opener, you need to be among top scorers atleast. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Majestic

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

For your own admission..the series in SA has bowlers like sipmala, mangla , Lynda and some other no names. Same goes in aus none of the top batters and bowlers played on those series. They all were playing ipl. Babar Azam is good player but I won't fall for his avg as none of the top team take these biletral seriously especially since COVID and most of the time they try their bench strength. Only pak play their main xi even against associate teams. Many top team play their b or c team when Pakistan tour their as it's not a big draw commercially. Having said that Babar is class player he is not an usual hack which Pakistan produce but his avg should be taken as pinch of salt.

I'm pretty sure Babar played SA's main bowlers for most of the series but that's besides the point. We've seen this guy score against the best bowlers in the world and he has only gotten better with time. I remember there was a time when I used to hate Babar as a batsman. I thought he was a timid and mentally weak player that can't cope with the slightest bit of pressure. I went as far as saying he's worse than Umar Akmal(). He has proven me wrong time and time again by improving every series. So I've decided it's best not to write him off as a minnow basher, one hit wonder, mental midget, stat padder, etc. I think the best is yet to come as far as Babar is concerned.

 

Then again it's you're choice to judge him based on your own experiences.

[Need4Speed]

Babar is a quality batsmen..however I would love him to improve on his acceleration skills..and play more risk taking cricket which helps his team further..

Most importantly, want him to take rests on less meaningful matches..that will also give opportunity to Pak and see what their team can do without him..

Not thinking about avg/stats/current form..Overall his dominance in match situations..doesnt look at the same level like Kohli or Rohit..

 

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, Bowlayorkerdamnit said:

I'm pretty sure Babar played SA's main bowlers for most of the series but that's besides the point. We've seen this guy score against the best bowlers in the world and he has only gotten better with time. I remember there was a time when I used to hate Babar as a batsman. I thought he was a timid and mentally weak player that can't cope with the slightest bit of pressure. I went as far as saying he's worse than Umar Akmal(). He has proven me wrong time and time again by improving every series. So I've decided it's best not to write him off as a minnow basher, one hit wonder, mental midget, stat padder, etc. I think the best is yet to come as far as Babar is concerned.

 

Then again it's you're choice to judge him based on your own experiences.

 

He is definitely one of the technically best to have come out of pakistan. No question there.  Also shows a lot of hunger, makes use of his form. Ranking reflects that. Pakistan minus Babar is a very very flimsy batting unit. 

[Jay]

19 hours ago, Majestic said:

For Babar, the conclusion would be that he is no doubt quality and is a better ODI batsman than anyone not named Kohli or Rohit from this generation from SC.

 

In Tests, he is better than anyone not named Kohli from SC.

 

In T20s, he is better than anyone not named Kohli again due to Kohli's World T20 performances. Rohit falters a bit due to not dominating any WT20 performance. As opener, you need to be among top scorers atleast. 

 

 

Babar is better than kohli. Kohli would do * all for pakistan if he played for them even in his peak. Kohli cant carry a weak side by himself. Babar can. Sure there is shaheen and rizwan but that's still just 2 other key players.