Which Hindutva? Prabodhankar Thakray VS Savarkar

[Alam_dar]

 

BJP of Wajpai was following the Hindutva of Prabodhankar Thackeray. 

But the present BJP of Modi has started following the Hindutva of Savarkar

 

Shiv Sena of Bal Thakeray was following the Hindutva of Savarkar

But the present Shiv Sena of Uddhav Thakeray (and his son) started following the Hindutva of Prabodhankar Thackeray.

 

Thank you, Dhruv Rathee, for this excellent video. 

  

[bharathh]

 Dhruv Rathee. 

[Alam_dar]

21 minutes ago, bharathh said:

 Dhruv Rathee. 

 

Please counter him with arguments (if you can) instead of laughing. 

[bharathh]

42 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Please counter him with arguments (if you can) instead of laughing. 

.. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by bharathh

[bharathh]

42 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Please counter him with arguments (if you can) instead of laughing. 

Dhruv Rathee is not worth countering. The youtube comments are sufficient to do so. 

 

The guy is a self-proclaimed expert in everything but knows nothing. 

[ravishingravi]

53 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Please counter him with arguments (if you can) instead of laughing. 

 

Its so easy to counter him, that I am not sure if I can muster the efforts. 

[Alam_dar]

13 minutes ago, bharathh said:

Dhruv Rathee is not worth countering. The youtube comments are sufficient to do so. 

 

The guy is a self-proclaimed expert in everything but knows nothing. 

 

A man is not judged from the comments that his opponents make, but by the arguments that he presents. 

And I see absolutely no counter argument from his opponents.

 

By the way, under his video, there are thousands of comments by Indians, who are thanking him for enlightening them. 

 

[Clarke]

Woketards should look inwards and first debate among their thought leaders: Mao vs Stalin vs Pol Pot or Osama vs Al-Zawahiri. They will find amazing achievements in terms of body count that would make hindutva a non issue.

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Clarke said:

Woketards should look inwards and first debate among their thought leaders: Mao vs Stalin vs Pol Pot or Osama vs Al-Zawahiri. They will find amazing achievements in terms of body count that would make hindutva a non issue.

 

This is a disease when one thinks he and his ideology are above any criticism, and uses whataboutism for this purpose. 

[someone]

16 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

This is a disease when one thinks he and his ideology are above any criticism, and uses whataboutism for this purpose. 

 

The disease is the monopoly on who gets to define in India. All these political terminology or buzz words are only defined by the so called left. Where is the non-left definitions, and can BJP itself define their Hindutva? Similarly case with RW, LW.

 

In some sense, the Periyarists are at least some honest in this aspect. They don't play the double game of definitions.  Hinduism and Hindutva are the same and they aggressively target it...

 

 

[Clarke]

35 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

This is a disease when one thinks he and his ideology are above any criticism, and uses whataboutism for this purpose. 

 

The whataboutism is from your end. Two murders in India based on a facebook like/comment and the prominent theme among woketards like Rathee is hindoo this, hindoo that. You're happy to be a bandwagoner there. 

 

One of the biggest diseases on the planet is your mulk and its products, be it some jihadi or an internet warrior like you.

 

One could talk more on the actual problem and be at the risk of losing one's head. You won't find that problem with this kind of topic though.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Clarke

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

BJP of Wajpai was following the Hindutva of Prabodhankar Thackeray. 

But the present BJP of Modi has started following the Hindutva of Savarkar

 

Shiv Sena of Bal Thakeray was following the Hindutva of Savarkar

But the present Shiv Sena of Uddhav Thakeray (and his son) started following the Hindutva of Prabodhankar Thackeray.

 

Thank you, Dhruv Rathee, for this excellent video.

 

you have no idea about any Hindutva. You are arguing with half-baked knowledge that you are attaining from stupid LeLi stereotypes. 
 

Prabondkar Thackeray was not a Hindutva proponent of any sort. He was a social reformer much like Tilak, Gokhale , Ambedkar and even Savarkar. He fought against Hindu rituals, caste system, social evils like Dowry.
 

Read about how Savarkar fought against untouchability, caste and social evils of Hindu society. He constructed temples where dalits were priests and promoted saamoohik tyohar where everyone eats together. 

 

You people should read more. Show me one social reform that UT followed PT with other than lip service 

Edited July 4, 2022 by coffee_rules

[Alam_dar]

15 minutes ago, someone said:

 

Where is the non-left definitions, and can BJP itself define their Hindutva? Similarly case with RW, LW.

 

Of course, BJP can also come up with its own definition if they have arguments to back it up. 

 

Moreover, if BJP comes up or not, it is a BJP issue, while LW has all the right to come up with its own definitions and terminologies. 

 

By the way, those were Prabodhankar Thakray and Savarkar who were using and defining Hindutva in their books much before the Liberal LW. 

 

[Alam_dar]

11 minutes ago, Clarke said:

 

The whataboutism is from your end. Two murders in India based on a facebook like/comment and the prominent theme among woketards like Rathee is hindoo this, hindoo that. You're happy to be a bandwagoner there. 

 

Again a whataboutism, while it is neither the topic of Dhruv Rathee in this video, nor of this thread.

 

11 minutes ago, Clarke said:

 

One of the biggest diseases on the planet is your mulk and its products, be it some jihadi or an internet warrior like you.

 

Again a whataboutism, while neither I ever denied my country's involvement in such activities, nor it is the topic of this thread. 

[Clarke]

@Alam_dar in case you forgot, you're the Makuka of ICF.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

you have no idea about any Hindutva. You are arguing with half-baked knowledge that you are attaining from stupid LeLi stereotypes. 
 

Prabondkar Thackeray was not a Hindutva proponent of any sort. He was a social reformer much like Tilak, Gokhale , Ambedkar and even Savarkar. He fought against Hindu rituals, caste system, social evils like Dowry.
 

Read about how Savarkar fought against untouchability, caste and social evils of Hindu society. He constructed temples where dalits were priests and promoted saamoohik tyohar where everyone eats together. 

 

You people should read more. 

 

Thank you for the information. This is a positive attitude from which others do learn. 

 

Dhruv Rathee also touched on this topic about Prabondkar and also about Savarkar. He seems to agree completely with you on Prabondkar, but he differed from you regarding Savarkar and he put his arguments in the video too. 

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Thank you for the information. This is a positive attitude from which others do learn. 

 

Dhruv Rathee also touched on this topic about Prabondkar and also about Savarkar. He seems to agree completely with you on Prabondkar, but he differed from you regarding Savarkar and he put his arguments in the video too. 

I don’t watch DR or falana to learn about his views on Hindutva. He is not objective to begin with. 
 

Also, why do you feel it is necessary for BJP or RW in your language, to convince LW or the unconvincable about what brand of Hindutva they are promoting. First of all there is no brand of Hindutva. Savarkar or Vaypayee or Modi are all the same. It is about nation first. We don’t have to convince LW loonies like DR about it. 

[Alam_dar]

19 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Also, why do you feel it is necessary for BJP or RW in your language, to convince LW or the unconvincable about what brand of Hindutva they are promoting. First of all there is no brand of Hindutva. Savarkar or Vaypayee or Modi are all the same. It is about nation first. We don’t have to convince LW loonies like DR about it. 

 

It is not about convincing others, but it is about bringing your arguments on a particular issue. 

 

Nationalism is common in both the Hindutva ideologies of Thakeray and Savarkar, and thus not a problem. But the issue is of dealing with others i.e. non-Hindus, where they seem to differ. 

 

I am not in favor of this 2nd kind of Hindutva, which alienate it not only from Muslims, but all other minorities too. 

 

After the episode of Nupur Sharma, the best outcome would have been to end articles 295 a and b completely and blasphemy should not be considered a criminal offence any more. At the moment, Hindu gods are insulted, but Muslims don't let the insults of Allah/Muhammad/Islam take place. So, then what is the use of these articles when they indirectly help Muslims?

 

And the outcome is not good while Judges of supreme court also made wrong statements which will damage the movement against the radical Islam. 

 

And right-wing Hindutva got involved in taking actions against Muhammad Zubair, which is also not going to bring any long-term benefit, but this action brought very bad name to India as I see radical Muslims again using it for their propaganda against India in Pakistan (and also for sure same would be the case in Gulf States too). 

 

Due to this extreme nature of RW Hindutva, the original issue of Muslim extremism dies out very much, and LW and other minorities become frightened from RW Hindutva itself. 

 

Final result will be, Islam will not be discussed and criticized in the national media, and Mullahs will keep a full grip upon Muslim youth in brainwashing them. 

 

Quote

I don’t watch DR or falana to learn about his views on Hindutva. He is not objective to begin with. 

 

I don't think that one ever feels that opponents are objective. 

Nevertheless, still one has to hear what the opponents have to say, otherwise one could not counter them. 

[someone]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Of course, BJP can also come up with its own definition if they have arguments to back it up. 

 

Moreover, if BJP comes up or not, it is a BJP issue, while LW has all the right to come up with its own definitions and terminologies. 

 

By the way, those were Prabodhankar Thakray and Savarkar who were using and defining Hindutva in their books much before the Liberal LW. 

 

 

The left takes refuge in its full monopoly of political definitions. You keep using RW, LW without even understanding their meanings and their context in India. It's classic Godwin's law principle and often used to shut discussion and stop freedom. H

 

Next, learn what Ambedkar said about Islam. Today, that is conveniently ignored and thus, my point on how left always manipulates the definitions of secularism and historical leaders based on it's needs. They hide one part, they speak about one part etc.  And on Ambedkhar, one interesting thing is how majority of his works, writings were "destroyed" and thus, many things are forever gone...

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by someone

[vayuu1]

8 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Please counter him with arguments (if you can) instead of laughing. 

Counter neutrals ka kiya jaata hai,aaptards ka nhi