Why are we trying to bring back Trundler Culture in Indian cricket again ?? Our pace bowling revolution started with the pace and bounce of Bumrah and Shami.and the height of Ishant.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, nsareen said:

 

Arshdeep had a off day only because he like the other quicks couldnt land the ball properly due to 94% humidity.. One failure is good enough to judge him quickly, He did well in the Asia cup last overs & australia should be dry conditions too hopefully.. Yes he cant be a 145k bowler anyways, so the expectation should be that even if he touches high 130's that's respectable from his perspective.

 

 

I was not talking about his performances but his speeds and my perception of his ceiling. 

[Suhaan]

Rsh

38 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Arshdeep is basically a trundler who can occasionally bowl fast-medium during the death overs. 

 

But he is the best smong trundlers as he is tall and can swing the ball.

 

But I doubt that Arshdeep will ever be an all condition bowler. Among left armers, Mohsin has a higher ceiling. 

Arshdeep can bowl quick but he chooses to bowl well within himself,it is there to see

Being tall and recently swinging sets him apart from Boobie,Harshal ,he needs to try his hand in improving his batting once he does that he can be indispensable

[nsareen]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I was not talking about his performances but his speeds and my perception of his ceiling. 

 

Yes his ceiling is 142K which he did touch in Asia cup matches, I see thats pretty AWESOME. for him, i've been following him since U19 when Nagarkoti / Mavi were WAY WAY  ahead of him, he didnt even get a game in the knock outs, since he was behind in the pecking order in terms of pace & intimidation! In U19 he was at best 131-132K.

[express bowling]

Kuldeep Sen dismissed the in-form Pujara cheaply in both innings.

 

Both deliveries had high pace, steep bounce and some away movement.

 

We need this combo when top quality batters have to be dismissed regularly. 

 

Domestic batters can be dismissed by 125 k lollipops in good areas but top batters need to be hurried by pace and bounce.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by express bowling

[nsareen]

where is this guy...   He was menacing too leading into the world cup with Karthik Tyagi, he had one off IPL game &was not to be seen.. I feel he had real potential..

 

 

. 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, nsareen said:

 

Yes his ceiling is 142K which he did touch in Asia cup matches, I see thats pretty AWESOME. for him, 

 

 

His awesome is not material. 

 

We should try to find bowlers who have .... Pace + Bounce + Accuracy + some movement + good yorkers + good bouncers .....  OR  have the potential to achieve this within a short time

 

Why should we be happy with only a couple of these attributes when we have so many pacers coming up ????

 

 

[nsareen]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

His awesome is not material. 

 

We should try to find bowlers who have .... Pace + Bounce + Accuracy + some movement + good yorkers + good bouncers .....  OR  have the potential to achieve this within a short time

 

Why should we be happy with only a couple of these attributes when we have so many pacers coming up ????

 

 

 

Arshdeep does have Pace + Bounce + Accuracy + some movement + good yorkers + good bouncers + He is Tallish. Pace is decent & is a thinking bowler. He can never be outright quick, but he does possess skills which can prove to be useful under certain conditions. He obviously cannot be the lead of the attack, he can play a supporting role.

Edited October 3, 2022 by nsareen

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, nsareen said:

 

Arshdeep does have Pace + Bounce + Accuracy + some movement + good yorkers + good bouncers + He is Tallish. Pace is decent & is a thinking bowler. He can never be outright

 

 

 

He does not have pace or bounce or good bouncers 

 

 

7 hours ago, nsareen said:

quick, but he does possess skills which can prove to be useful under certain conditions. He obviously cannot be the lead of the attack, he can play a supporting role.

 

 

Why not look for pacers who can be useful in most conditions like Bumrah in all 3 formats or even Shami in the 2 longer formats. ?

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by express bowling

[nsareen]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He does not have pace or bounce or good bouncers 

 

 

 

 

Why not look for pacers who can be useful in most conditions like Bumrah in all 3 formats or even Shami the 2 longer formats. ?

 

 

That's ideal, however if you notice the history, no selector or captain in India does out of the box thinking, bringing in players like Umran directly into National setup, I'm surprised Umran is getting so much attention purely because of social & other factors, nothing is hidden these days & selectors follow the sentiments too.. However in the Age group & non televised tournaments, its a different story, bowlers like Mukesh kumar, Vinay kumar rule the roost, since they are ideal for INDIAN pitches.. Going out of India is a different story, but selections happen in India for Indian conditions primarily, hence even bowlers like Arshdeep have to be in the mix, you cannot just avoid them.

 

 

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, nsareen said:

 

. Going out of India is a different story, but selections happen in India for Indian conditions primarily, hence even bowlers like Arshdeep have to be in the mix, you cannot just avoid them.

 

 

Indian conditions need quick bowlers  ...  because pitches are slow and abrasive and there is minimal conventional swing. 

 

How many medium pacers have succeeded in international matches in India ?    ( talking about overall and NOT one off series )

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by express bowling

[nsareen]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Indian conditions need quick bowlers  ...  because pitches are slow and abrasive and there is minimal conventional swing. 

 

How many medium pacers have succeeded in international matches India ?    ( talking about overall and one off series )

 

 

Well we do have quick bowlers, but they never are in the top wicket takers list in domestic tournaments, who are on top, bowlers like Mukesh, Mithun, Vinay, Dinda, Sandeep, Kaul, Harshal  etc.. who are not quick but use the indian pitches which are taylor made for swing bowlers.  I feel the pitches which assist quick bowling are very very few in India & sample size of such matches are very less to leave an impression.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, nsareen said:

 

Well we do have quick bowlers, but they never are in the top wicket takers list in domestic tournaments, who are on top, bowlers like Mukesh, Mithun, Vinay, Dinda, Sandeep, Kaul, Harshal  etc..

 

This is the mistake that selectors have made for years.

 

Domestic batters are of a much lower quality and they get dismissed by 125 k to 130 k balls bowled in good areas without movement. 

 

International batsmen are of a much higher quality and extra pace or extra bounce or consistent swing is needed to dismiss them regularly. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, nsareen said:

who are not quick but use the indian pitches which are taylor made for swing bowlers.  I feel the pitches which assist quick bowling are very very few in India & sample size of such matches are very less to leave an impression.

 

 

Look at the International matches and NOT domestic matches played in India. Conditions are vastly different. 

 

Quicks like Srinath, Shami and Umesh have such low averages in India.

 

Why would you choose pacers for international match conditions based on pacers who have succeeded in domestic match conditions which are vastly different ?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by express bowling

[singhvivek141]

45 minutes ago, nsareen said:

where is this guy...   He was menacing too leading into the world cup with Karthik Tyagi, he had one off IPL game &was not to be seen.. I feel he had real potential..

 

 

. 

Him and Sushant Mishra both were quick and hostile, with Akash there is a problem that he plays from Rajastan, where Aniket Chaudhary, Tanveer Ul Haq, Khaleel are the front runners...followed by Nagarkoti and then maybe Akash.
But Sushant should be given a go by Jharkhand, after Varun Aaron and Rahul Shukla...they don't have proper fast bowlers.

[nsareen]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

This is the mistake that selectors have made for years.

 

Domestic batters are of a much lower quality and they get dismissed by 125 k to 130 k balls bowled in good areas 

 

International batsmen are of a much higher and extra pace and bounce is needed to dismiss them regularly. 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at the International matches and NOT domestic matches played in India. Conditions are vastly different. 

 

Quicks like Srinath, Shami and Umesh have such low averages in India.

 

Why would you choose pacers for international match conditions based on pacers who have succeeded in domestic match conditions which are vastly different ?

 

 

 

You cant put that to the batters, its the pitches..  If the pitches assist swing bowling, even international batsmen struggle, we all saw what happened to SA batsmen under swinging conditions..

[RajBan]

I believe our batsmen feel comfortable playing trundlers in the nets . I am ok with one trundler in the squad as long as that person is not just a good bowler but also handy with bat. Only Deepka Chahar fits the bill. Arshdeep is a decent bowler but complete out of place in other two departments, Harshal can hit some runs but inconsistent and more importantly a really bad bowler . The worst is Bhuvanesh , not because he is a bad bowler, he is actually a very good bowler and has best control but a proper mental midget infront of top T20 batsmen. Also Bhuvi while he can hold the bat, he lacks any intent to score runs hence does not make sense as an all-rounder either.

 

Bumrah, Deepak Chahar with Siraj as backup/third bowler in the squad is ideally the bowling line up we need in T20. Likewise we need to play bowlers like Bishnoi in place of complete duds like Chahal in the spin department.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, nsareen said:

 

You cant put that to the batters, its the pitches..  If the pitches assist swing bowling, even international batsmen struggle, we all saw what happened to SA batsmen under swinging conditions..

 

 

 

In India we don't get to see conventional swing for too long. The white ball swings for max 3 or 4 overs and thd red ball maybe 6 or 7 overs. 

 

Domestic batters get out even if there is no swing or pace or bounce ...  but the line and length are good. 

 

International batters need  extra pace or bounce or significant swing., to get out regularly. 

 

Taking decisions based on first 3 or 4 overs of T20Is can't be an overall good decision. 

 

[Mosher]

36 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

But Sushant should be given a go by Jharkhand, after Varun Aaron and Rahul Shukla...they don't have proper fast bowlers.

Sushant will be playing lot more now as Aaron will be playing for Baroda from this domestic season.

[Suhaan]

51 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Him and Sushant Mishra both were quick and hostile, with Akash there is a problem that he plays from Rajastan, where Aniket Chaudhary, Tanveer Ul Haq, Khaleel are the front runners...followed by Nagarkoti and then maybe Akash.
But Sushant should be given a go by Jharkhand, after Varun Aaron and Rahul Shukla...they don't have proper fast bowlers.

Aksha wasn't as quick as Tyagi and Sushant

Sushant may very well be hitting 144-145 these days

One of the top contenders among left armers in India

Edited October 3, 2022 by Suhaan

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Sushant will be playing lot more now as Aaron will be playing for Baroda from this domestic season.

Want to see him play more

[Nikhil_cric]

Arshdeep is not some genuine pacer who is bowling well within himself. Just does not have the explosiveness . 

 

However, I do think his action is problematic. That angular run up needs to be straightened out for him to be more consistent. He's shutting himself off a bit. 

 

He is tall and he is a left armer so those things are definitely in his favour but he needs to sort his action out or not only will he be relatively ineffective but he will continue to get side strains like he did in England..