Why are we trying to bring back Trundler Culture in Indian cricket again ?? Our pace bowling revolution started with the pace and bounce of Bumrah and Shami.and the height of Ishant.

[express bowling]

If we look at the ATG pacers of the last 50 years or the pacers of ATG Teams of this period, we will find that most of them could either bowl at 140 k+  OR  generate steep bounce from high release points  OR  do both. There were odd exceptions like Philander but even he averaged in the high 30s in tests in Asia.

Yes, just being quick or bouncy is not enough and these ATG pacers had lots of other skills too. But pace or bounce are big necessities as top international batsmen have to be hurried for them to make mistakes regularly.

From the 1980s India always had lots of seamers who were accurate and could move the ball well ... but what was lacking was pace and bounce.  And none of those medium pacers became ATG or near ATG bowlers and bowling, especially pace bowling, remained our weak point till 2015. Yes, we had some quicks from the 1990s onwards, and the best of them was Srinath, but we never had a bunch of them till 2015.

Our pace bowling revolution started from 2018 or thereabouts. And it was led by the pace and bounce of Bumrah snd Shami and the height and high release point of Ishant. This trio breathed fire for 2 or 3 years and we were winning test matches and test series away from home. It took us 84 years to build a good pace attack. 

Yes, it was mainly in test matches but even in white ball cricket we played only one good medium pacer in Bhuvi and the others were fast or fast-medium with bounce.

Suddenly, from 2022, we are seeing that accurate medium pacers are again filling our bowling attack and often, there is no pace in the attack as a whole.

My biggest disappointment is in seeing that the Team for the Unofficial Test match against NZ has 2 medium pacers , just 1 fast-medium pacer and no fast bowler. And this is a format which needs pace the most.

Looking at our Asia Cup Team, it has no specialist pacer who can bowl consistently quick and we have to depend on part-time bowler Hardik to provide some pace and bounce. Even the HK captain taunted our bowling attack for lack of pace. And why wouldn't he !  HK scored 153 for 5 again us while they were dismissed for 38 by Pakistsn. We have been unable to choose even 1 of the 9 quickest pacers in India for whatever reasons.

Yes ... in T20s, someone like Bhuvi who is in red hot form, and delivering regularly this year, must be chosen. But please do have some pace and bounce in the attack as a whole.


Let's look at the quickest pacers India have ....

Umran Malik ... Picked for a couple of T20Is but dropped unceremoniously. Did not get the long rope that Avesh is getting.

Kartik Tyagi ... The biggest pace talent in India after Bumrah. But he is not getting chances to play for his state team even. Not getting picked for A teams or even as a net bowler. We are wasting him.

Kuldeep Sen ... Not picked for Unofficial Tests. He is a net bowler for India though but did not get to play the last one or two Ranji games.

Navdeep Saini ... Lost form in T20s but did really well in the last Unofficisl Test series ... but dropped for the current one for no apparent reason.

Jasprit Bumrah ... He is a super star and obviously getting his chances. Picking him is automatic and no credit to the selectors or TM for this.

Mohammad Shami ... Again a star and an automatic pick for test matches. Dropped for T20Is but no one can be blamed for this as he leaks runs towards the end.

Prasidh Krishna ... Yet to debut in Test matches despite averaging 17 in FC. Getting regular chances in ODIs though.

Mohammad Siraj ... Why is he not getting any chances in T20Is ?? He is an all phase bowler, can pick early wickets and can bowl good quick yorkers at the death.

Mohsin Khan ... Was the best young pacer in the IPL. Picked wickets, had a super low economy rate, got steep bounce and got swing and bowled well both upfront and at the death. But totally ignored so far.

 

Then there are Shivam Mavi and Kamlesh Nagarkoti who seem to be almost lost in the system. 

Why are we unable to develop quick pacers with T20 skills, although we have quick bowlers  ?? Are we not taking this format seriously. Camps must be held to teach white ball skills to quick pacers in a focused manner.

It takes a long time to build something but a very short time to destroy it. And this is happening with our pace attack. Steps must be taken ASAP to stem the rot.

Edited September 3, 2022 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Umran Malik ... Picked for a couple of T20Is but dropped unceremoniously. Did not get the long rope that Avesh is getting.

On 7/11/2022 at 2:51 AM, express bowling said:

Umran does not have a stock ball yet.

 

I would like him to develop a top of off stump directed stock delivery first .... and then play for India.

 

 

 

 

 

you yourself werent ready to back him ?? Then why are you saying " dropped unceremoniously" or blaming TM or selectors 

[Ankit_sharma03]

About tyagi 

 

MATCH	Bat	Bowl	Date	Ground	Format
Sunrisers vs RCB	0	1/42	07-May-2022	Wankhede	T20
Sunrisers vs Capitals	7	0/37	04-May-2022	Brabourne	T20
Royals vs RCB	1*	0/23	28-Sep-2021	Dubai (DSC)	T20
Royals vs Capitals	--	1/40	24-Sep-2021	Abu Dhabi	T20
Royals vs Punjab Kings	1	2/29	20-Sep-2021	Dubai (DSC)	T20
Royals vs Sunrisers	--	1/32	01-May-2021	Delhi	T20
U. Pradesh vs Kerala	0*	0/29	21-Feb-2021	Alur (2)	List A
U. Pradesh vs Karnataka	--	1/45	19-Feb-2021	Bengaluru	List A
Indians vs Australia A	1* & 2*	0/51 & 0/15	05-Dec-2020	Sydney	FC
Royals vs KKR	2	2/36	31-Oct-2020	Dubai (DSC)	T20

 

 

Look how lil he has played from OCT 2020 - he has beem struggling with fitness, even in this IPL he was struggling with injuries .

 

• You cant select someone who has been constantly in n out of game for so long . He would struggle for rhythm 
• Also in t20 he is mostly a one phase bowler- death (one of the most risky phase where lack of experience will create problems many days like it did against hardik )
  In power play he gives too much width which is a crime , he did bowl in PP this IPL where he looked to have extracted nothing despite bowling at good speed 

[Jay]

* india and * dravid. * th4 coaches. * the nepotism. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Odi bowling - They finally are selecting wkt taking bowlers and we are still complaining

Not their fault if prasidh bowling with older bowl has been found out or most of these guys cant bat 

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

About tyagi 

 

MATCH	Bat	Bowl	Date	Ground	Format
Sunrisers vs RCB	0	1/42	07-May-2022	Wankhede	T20
Sunrisers vs Capitals	7	0/37	04-May-2022	Brabourne	T20
Royals vs RCB	1*	0/23	28-Sep-2021	Dubai (DSC)	T20
Royals vs Capitals	--	1/40	24-Sep-2021	Abu Dhabi	T20
Royals vs Punjab Kings	1	2/29	20-Sep-2021	Dubai (DSC)	T20
Royals vs Sunrisers	--	1/32	01-May-2021	Delhi	T20
U. Pradesh vs Kerala	0*	0/29	21-Feb-2021	Alur (2)	List A
U. Pradesh vs Karnataka	--	1/45	19-Feb-2021	Bengaluru	List A
Indians vs Australia A	1* & 2*	0/51 & 0/15	05-Dec-2020	Sydney	FC
Royals vs KKR	2	2/36	31-Oct-2020	Dubai (DSC)	T20

 

 

Look how lil he has played from OCT 2020 - he has beem struggling with fitness, even in this IPL he was struggling with injuries .

 

• You cant select someone who has been constantly in n out of game for so long . He would struggle for rhythm 
• Also in t20 he is mostly a one phase bowler- death (one of the most risky phase where lack of experience will create problems many days like it did against hardik )
  In power play he gives too much width which is a crime , he did bowl in PP this IPL where he looked to have extracted nothing despite bowling at good speed 

One phase or 2 phase. We love pace and bounce. We don't want to see trundlers. Ok? I pay money and also my time more importantly. My time because time is momey for these that's. I don't want to watch meddling trundlers. It's entertainment. 

 

I need to see hostility. Bounce pace and ability to move the ball at good pace. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

One phase or 2 phase. We love pace and bounce. We don't want to see trundlers. Ok? I pay money and also my time more importantly. My time because time is momey for these that's. I don't want to watch meddling trundlers. It's entertainment. 

 

I need to see hostility. Bounce pace and ability to move the ball at good pace. 

kal ko tum ko kahoge tumhe item girl dekhni achi lagti usko thodi na bowling kra de

frankly no one gives a fck about your money, at the end winning a game matter and who ever can do it is most welcome........even if you have to play 4 spinners do it 

 

if you want to see pace n bounce, youtube has enough clips coz ur priority is not winning anyways 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

One selection will always be debatable , but overall its been great work 

Also im happy they are backing a player, atleast it shows they are ready to back a player. Problem was with kohli-shastri who were ready to back anyone be it their own choice

IF avesh is backed today, tomm some other player will enjoy the backing and who knows he might be of your choice so will you complain then 

[Jay]

28 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

kal ko tum ko kahoge tumhe item girl dekhni achi lagti usko thodi na bowling kra de

frankly no one gives a fck about your money, at the end winning a game matter and who ever can do it is most welcome........even if you have to play 4 spinners do it 

 

if you want to see pace n bounce, youtube has enough clips coz ur priority is not winning anyways 

Item girl? Why? We have chahal and bhoobi already. Both are nice item girls to me. They will serve their beautiful balls to the opponents and will get creamed in the process. 

 

Bhoobi is and always should only be a 3rd pacer. He should never lead an attack. A trundler is and always will be that. Trundler. 

 

Need pace and bounce to be a great bowler. 

 

They should give a * about me because there are a lot of people like me and express pacer and other hostile bowling fans. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Item girl? Why? We have chahal and bhoobi already. Both are nice item girls to me. They will serve their beautiful balls to the opponents and will get creamed in the process. 

 

Bhoobi is and always should only be a 3rd pacer. He should never lead an attack. A trundler is and always will be that. Trundler. 

 

Need pace and bounce to be a great bowler. 

 

They should give a * about me because there are a lot of people like me and express pacer and other hostile bowling fans. 

 

 

Isko bolte ka pace ka obsession - have u seen bhuvi has been oustanding in t20 lekin pace bounce chahiye result jaye tail lene 

 

Also u need to put the ball in right slot for that pace n bounce to work. Pace bounce to avesh ke pass bhi hai

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

They should give a * about me because there are a lot of people like me and express pacer and other hostile bowling fans. 

 

And they also werent ready to back umran after few bad games. So at the end result matters to everyone

[Jay]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Isko bolte ka pace ka obsession - have u seen bhuvi has been oustanding in t20 lekin pace bounce chahiye result jaye tail lene 

 

Also u need to put the ball in right slot for that pace n bounce to work. Pace bounce to avesh ke pass bhi hai

Yes that's why I ex luded avesh's name. I like bounce. Avesh is fine. Give him more chances. 

[Jay]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

And they also werent ready to back umran after few bad games. So at the end result matters to everyone

I did. Not me. I always backed him. He only played 2 *ing games. He needs a whole run of games. I don't just lose hope in our youngsters after 2 games. Need a good run of 10 games.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Yes that's why I ex luded avesh's name. I like bounce. Avesh is fine. Give him more chances. 

 

9 hours ago, Jay said:

I did. Not me. I always backed him. He only played 2 *ing games. He needs a whole run of games. I don't just lose hope in our youngsters after 2 games. Need a good run of 10 games.

avesh ko bhi khilao, umran ko bhi khilao, prasidh ko bhi khilao 

aur kis kis ko khilana hai ?? Aur kis kis ko bahara bithana hai ?

[Lone Wolf]

Bowling attack for this Asia Cup is particularly bad.   Arshdeep is a good containing bowler but both Bhuvi & him need at least one genuine wicket Taker.  Siraj with his form would have been ideal. 

I don't get how Avesh is getting such a long rope....  Even likes of Khaleel & Saini had a better Int'l starts than him...  Khaleel actually was brought in too raw but still was so much better in comparison to Avesh. 

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

avesh ko bhi khilao, umran ko bhi khilao, prasidh ko bhi khilao 

aur kis kis ko khilana hai ?? Aur kis kis ko bahara bithana hai ?

Put them in India A team ffs. Give them test match chances. Or even odi. Spread them out.its not hard. 

[Jay]

10 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Bowling attack for this Asia Cup is particularly bad.   Arshdeep is a good containing bowler but both Bhuvi & him need at least one genuine wicket Taker.  Siraj with his form would have been ideal. 

I don't get how Avesh is getting such a long rope....  Even likes of Khaleel & Saini had a better Int'l starts than him...  Khaleel actually was brought in too raw but still was so much better in comparison to Avesh. 

I would back arshdeep if he shwoed me some bounce bowling ability. But I am a bit disappointed. 

[rollingstoned]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

If we look at the ATG pacers of the last 50 years or the pacers of ATG Teams of this period, we will find that most of them could either bowl at 140 k+  OR  generate steep bounce from high release points OR both. There were odd exceptions like Philander but even he averaged in the high 30s in tests in Asia.

Yes, just being quick or bouncy is not enough and these ATG pacers had lots of other skills too. But pace or bounce are big necessities as top international batsmen have to be hurried for them to make mistakes regularly.

From the 1980s India always had lots of seamers who were accurate and could move the ball well ... but what was lacking was pace and bounce.  And none of those medium pacers became ATG or near ATG bowlers and bowling, especially pace bowling, remained our weak point till 2015. Yes, we had some quicks from the 1990s onwards, and the best of them was Srinath, but we never had a bunch of them till 2015.

Our pace bowling revolution started from 2018 or thereabouts. And it was led by the pace and bounce of Bumrah snd Shami and the height and high release point of Ishant. This trio breathed fire for 2 or 3 years and we were winning test matches and test series away from home. It took us 80 years to build a good pace attack. 

Yes, it was mainly in test matches but even in white ball cricket we played only one good medium pacer in Bhuvi and the others were fast or fast-medium with bounce.

Suddenly, from 2022, we are seeing that accurate medium pacers are again filling our bowling attack and often, there is no pace in the attack as a whole.

My biggest disappointment is in seeing that the Team for the Unofficial Test match against NZ has 2 medium pacers , just 1 fast-medium pacer and no fast bowler. And this is a format which needs pace the most.

Looking at our Asia Cup Team, it has no specialist pacer who can bowl consistently quick and we have to depend on part-time bowler Hardik to provide some pace and bounce. Even the HK captain taunted our bowling attack for lack of pace. And why wouldn't he !  HK scored 153 for 5 again us while they were dismissed for 38 by Pakistsn. We have been unable to choose even 1 of the 9 quickest pacers in India for whatever reasons.

Yes ... in T20s, someone like Bhuvi who is in red hot form, and delivering regularly this year, must be chosen. But please do have some pace and bounce in the attack as a whole.


Let's look at the quickest pacers India have ....

Umran Malik ... Picked for a couple of T20Is but dropped unceremoniously. Did not get the long rope that Avesh is getting.

Kartik Tyagi ... The biggest pace talent in India after Bumrah. But he is not getting chances to play for his state team even. Not getting picked for A teams or even as a net bowler. We are wasting him.

Kuldeep Sen ... Not picked for Unofficial Tests. He is a net bowler for India though but did not get to play the last one or two Ranji games.

Navdeep Saini ... Lost form in T20s but did really well in the last Unofficisl Test series ... but dropped for the current one for no apparent reason.

Jasprit Bumrah ... He is a super star and obviously getting his chances. Picking him is automatic and no credit to the selectors or TM for this.

Mohammad Shami ... Again a star and an automatic pick for test matches. Dropped for T20Is but no one can be blamed for this as he leaks runs towards the end.

Prasidh Krishna ... Yet to debut in Test matches despite averaging 17 in FC. Getting regular chances in ODIs though.

Mohammad Siraj ... Why is he not getting any chances in T20Is ?? He is an all phase bowler, can pick early wickets and can bowl good quick yorkers at the death.

Mohsin Khan ... Was the best young pacer in the IPL. Picked wickets, had a super low economy rate, got steep bounce and got swing and bowled well both upfront and at the death. But totally ignored so far.

 

Then there are Shivam Mavi and Kamlesh Nagarkoti who seem to be almost lost in the system. 

Why are we unable to develop quick pacers with T20 skills, although we have quick bowlers  ?? Are we not taking this format seriously. Camps must be held to teach white ball skills to quick pacers in a focused manner.

It takes a long time to build something but a very short time to destroy it. And this is happening with our pace attack. Steps must be taken ASAP to stem the rot.

I wouldn't get disheartened so quickly, the pool of genuine quick bowlers you mentioned are still around the team and will get chances going ahead. There's enough cricket to go around for all of them to be needed and time enough for some of them to improve by bowling more in domestic cricket now that the worst of the pandemic seems to be behind us. It might be the case that the ones we want are not being backed but someone getting proper backing is better than no one getting proper backing which was the case under Shastri and Kohli. 

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I would back arshdeep if he shwoed me some bounce bowling ability. But I am a bit disappointed. 

He is doing alright for a rookie...  Bit disappointed with him in HK game.  I won't write him off yet.  Let's see how he does vs Pak on Sunday.   You need pace to generate bounce on these UAE pitches...  Bend your back a lot. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Put them in India A team ffs. Give them test match chances. Or even odi. Spread them out.its not hard. 

do u think its easy to drop shami-siraj-bumrah in test ?? coz someone has to be 

Thakur plays purely due to give batting cushion

Umran lacks new ball bowling skills , how can he play test ??  They did take him to play in SA - A series red ball 

 

Isnt prasidh getting chances in ODI ?? They did select him for India-A too but he got injured cant blame selectors for that 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03