Dispelling the last great Pakistani myth: that they have historically been a better team than India

[Clarke]

After many years of wasting time, I'm with Melania on this one 

 

[ImranKhanGreatest]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:29 AM, Dil Dil India said:

@Iconoclast@ImranKhanGreatest any views/ Lahori logic to counter this? @the don

To respond to your Bombay pov bhaji logic.... Going by the win loss ratio and seeing how Pakistan has started beating you and challenging you consistently in last couple of years and how your future cricketers look nothing great after Virat, and knowing we only play in major tournaments.... I think it could take you a century more to beat the overall head to head record :) 

 

Whether you call it Coca-Cola Cup, or pav bhaji cup or daal roti saabji cup, the point is Pakistan was a better team and dominated India throughout those decades until late 90s. Even after that Pakistan has given a good fight and kept winning numerous games/cups in bilateral series and random tournament. 

[Suhaan]

12 minutes ago, ImranKhanGreatest said:

To respond to your Bombay pov bhaji logic.... Going by the win loss ratio and seeing how Pakistan has started beating you and challenging you consistently in last couple of years and how your future cricketers look nothing great after Virat, and knowing we only play in major tournaments.... I think it could take you a century more to beat the overall head to head record :) 

 

Whether you call it Coca-Cola Cup, or pav bhaji cup or daal roti saabji cup, the point is Pakistan was a better team and dominated India throughout those decades until late 90s. Even after that Pakistan has given a good fight and kept winning numerous games/cups in bilateral series and random tournament. 

Mazaak bahut karta hai tu

Edited November 4, 2022 by Suhaan

[Norman]

2 hours ago, ImranKhanGreatest said:

I think it could take you a century more to beat the overall head to head record :) 

 

 

Noone cares about that shallow head to head record though. You are over estimating the importance we give to it. Any knowledgeable indian (and pakistani) fan knows that if we played regular bilateral cricket between 2008 and 2020, that record would have been in the dustbin by now. 

 

Fair thing would be to compare overall achievements of both teams in terms of major titles as they have been competing consistently since 1975. And there the record reads.. 

 

India - 5 ICC trophies, 7 Asia Cup titles

Sri Lanka - 3 ICC trophies, 6 Asia cup Titles

Pakistan - 3 ICC trophies, 2 Asia Cup Titles

 

Your team should look to go ahead of atleast Sri Lanka first before even thinking about India. 

 

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

pAIPaindoo burgers like you are so transparent..technics, again, if you have anything to answer the OP do it. Otherwise stop being a slob and bugger off.

I have already told that piece of **** ;) you are insecure about a stat that no one cares about. You are insecure probably because you are a 5 foot malnutrition sample moron piece of **** :) 

 

who are * are you piece of **** to ask me to not type here. 

[deathmonger]

11 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

What legacy? Just want to understand:

 

1. India have won 2 test series in Aus. When Pakistan last won a test in Aus, Imran Khan was young enough to not need kali dal.

2. India have been number 1 test side in the world for a long time, will need to check the numbers but I am sure Pak's numbers don't stack up. India also have a WTC final.

3. Even in countries where both have won series, India did it well before Pakistan...until fairly recently Pakistan could not even win a test series in WI.

4. Before someone brings up WI of yore, let's not forget India has a 2-1 win vs Aus in 2001 which is arguably the greatest team in history.

 

Even if you want to talk raw stats, there is virtually nothing in it...Pak shade us 12-9 HTH and we have both won series in each other's countries.

 

It is a lot closer than ODIs though, that I do accept. However, the 2 test series wins in Aus tip it in India's favour for me. Pakistan just don't have a comparable overseas series win.

in 2-3 years that W/L ratio will change since PAk gets whitewashed away and keeps losing at home ad cant even defeat the likes of SL/WI.

[Dil Dil India]

7 hours ago, ImranKhanGreatest said:

To respond to your Bombay pov bhaji logic.... Going by the win loss ratio and seeing how Pakistan has started beating you and challenging you consistently in last couple of years and how your future cricketers look nothing great after Virat, and knowing we only play in major tournaments.... I think it could take you a century more to beat the overall head to head record :) 

 

Whether you call it Coca-Cola Cup, or pav bhaji cup or daal roti saabji cup, the point is Pakistan was a better team and dominated India throughout those decades until late 90s. Even after that Pakistan has given a good fight and kept winning numerous games/cups in bilateral series and random tournament. 

Ok, you seem to be a good poster. More reasonable and ready to debate with good points than our resident paindoo jahil @Vilander who is typing away from some basement.

 

The hth is 88-73. If we assume India wins 6 out of 10 matches from here on and that we play 1 match on average a year...India would need about 70 years to overtake the hth purely on the basis we don't play much anymore. 

 

However, that ignores the other side. How many years will it take Pakistan to bridge the 13-1 gap in WCs? To bridge the 15-4 gap in ICC tournaments? To win 2 test series in Aus? To win 2 additional WCs (to lead India as we are doing now), to win 5 more Asia Cups or 2 more CTs? I will let you do the math.

[Dil Dil India]

5 hours ago, deathmonger said:

in 2-3 years that W/L ratio will change since PAk gets whitewashed away and keeps losing at home ad cant even defeat the likes of SL/WI.

It has already changed like crazy. I think until the 2000s maybe there was an argument to be made that Pak were the better test side. They had a considerably better WL ratio I think and India hadnt won their 2 test series in aus or the many test maces. Even I was shocked to see the current numbers so I can understand people still struggling to come to terms with reality. It is like Federer's GS record...he was ahead all these years and it is hard to accept that Nadal now has more...and it seemed to happen out of the blue...same with Pak vs Ind.

[deathmonger]

15 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

It has already changed like crazy. I think until the 2000s maybe there was an argument to be made that Pak were the better test side. They had a considerably better WL ratio I think and India hadnt won their 2 test series in aus or the many test maces. Even I was shocked to see the current numbers so I can understand people still struggling to come to terms with reality. It is like Federer's GS record...he was ahead all these years and it is hard to accept that Nadal now has more...and it seemed to happen out of the blue...same with Pak vs Ind.

I mean ODI has already happened. Test will happen soon.

[Dil Dil India]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

I mean ODI has already happened. Test will happen soon.

Only thing is Pak play minnows a lot. I have to double check but I think our record is already better if you remove Zimbabwe and BD. And as they have now started playing at home they have more of an advantage because teams will still not be able to send full strength teams. 

 

We could have pulled even further away if we hadnt let the RSA series slip after being 1-0 up.

 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Sharjah-Harjah

[Lone Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Very carefully u forgot about the twin thrashings in Asia Cup 2018....  Lahori logic..  Sialkotia toh nahi tu

[Chakdephatte]

18 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

Your username tells me everything I need to know.

 

Two wins at home and you are suddenly over the moon.

[Sharjah-Harjah]

4 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

 

Your username tells me everything I need to know.

 

Two wins at home and you are suddenly over the moon.

 Sharjah or Dubai is not in Pakistan.

Its a neutral venue. 
Pakistani youth/players don’t play their domestic cricket in UAE. Only in ICF is UAE considered Pakistan’s “home advantage”. 
 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Very carefully u forgot about the twin thrashings in Asia Cup 2018....  Lahori logic..  Sialkotia toh nahi tu

Hahaha neither, Karachi logic here 

I am not disagreeing that India team was better on paper and in the ground in 2010s. Overall though, since 2000, the results are comparable based on the stats I’ve seen floated around.

[deathmonger]

4 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Matches are won in the ground. You cannot assume that win/loss ratio would have been this/that had they played during this era or that era. It doesn't work like that! You have to show up and win the damn game.

Lot of posters here saying that Pak was the better team in 80s and 90s. Yet India beat Pakistan in WCs and won several series. In 2017 CT final, India was the better team but lost. "Aane do" series 2012/13, India was the better team but lost. So, you cannot assume that the "better" team always wins. Both teams raise their game and get their ducks in a row. Ultimately, the win/loss ratio is what it is. 

 

Also, apart from 2013-2016, India has never really "dominated" Pak team in my humble opinion the way they should have given the talent gap. The Win/loss is quite comparable even as India team has been "better on paper" since at least 2007, but that hasn't always translated into outcomes. Since 2017, the tide is swinging again, and we shall see how the 2020s go.

 

 

your humble opinion is wrong.

 

Since 2007 India-Pak W/L ratio is 2/1 - https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=11;opposition=7;spanmin1=01+Jan+2007;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team

So not at all comparable.

 

Since 2017, it is 6-3 with a W/L ratio of 2/1 so no "tide is turning".

 

 

 

 

[deathmonger]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:59 AM, ImranKhanGreatest said:

To respond to your Bombay pov bhaji logic.... Going by the win loss ratio and seeing how Pakistan has started beating you and challenging you consistently in last couple of years and how your future cricketers look nothing great after Virat, and knowing we only play in major tournaments.... I think it could take you a century more to beat the overall head to head record :) 

 

Whether you call it Coca-Cola Cup, or pav bhaji cup or daal roti saabji cup, the point is Pakistan was a better team and dominated India throughout those decades until late 90s. Even after that Pakistan has given a good fight and kept winning numerous games/cups in bilateral series and random tournament. 

challenging consistently? - it's 2-2 in 4 t20s.

 

And Indian future cricketers are world class. Four u19 finals since 2016 with 2 wins.

 

Rishabh Pant's gabba knock is better than any knock by a Pakistani batsman in the history of cricket. Pakistan is not even drawing a match in Australia in a century let alone winning one :).

Washington Sundar, Gill etc are better than Pakistani tullas like Haider Ali etc.

 

Lol at "domination" and "good fight"

 

Pakistan's w/L ratio with India in 1980s - 2.3

1990s - 1.555

 

India W/L ratio against Pak in 2010s - 3

 

2.3 and 1.555 are dominating but 3 is giving a good fight. Lahori logic at it's finest.

[deathmonger]

17 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Hahaha neither, Karachi logic here 

I am not disagreeing that India team was better on paper and in the ground in 2010s. Overall though, since 2000, the results are comparable based on the stats I’ve seen floated around.

2010s India-Pak W/L ratio is 3, better than Pak in 80s or 90s.

 

You are contradicting yourself here. You are mentioning India was better in 2010s and then quote since 2000.

2000s has three phases -

1. Early 2000s when Wasim Waqar Anwar were still there. Pakistan was still better. Ended in the 03 WC when Sachin ended the team singlehandedly and made the Pakistani greats retire.
2. 2003-07 - Inzamam era. Similar W/L ratio although India won more series with Paksitan winning a few one offs.
3. 2007 - Dhoni era. This is when domination starts and continues to present day.

[deathmonger]

26 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

 Sharjah or Dubai is not in Pakistan.

Its a neutral venue. 
Pakistani youth/players don’t play their domestic cricket in UAE. Only in ICF is UAE considered Pakistan’s “home advantage”. 
 

Considering the amount of Pakistani bonded labour, UAE is home for Paxitan.

 

Beware, Babar and Shaheen etc might illegally immigrate and drive cabs in the UAE or maybe open "Indian" restaurants like Paxis do.

Edited November 7, 2022 by deathmonger

[deathmonger]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:59 PM, Dil Dil India said:

Only thing is Pak play minnows a lot. I have to double check but I think our record is already better if you remove Zimbabwe and BD. And as they have now started playing at home they have more of an advantage because teams will still not be able to send full strength teams. 

 

We could have pulled even further away if we hadnt let the RSA series slip after being 1-0 up.

 

1 round of SENA tours for Pakistan where they will get whitewashed and it's over for them.

 

I mean they even lose at home to SENA teams.