Dispelling the last great Pakistani myth: that they have historically been a better team than India

[zen]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:36 PM, Dil Dil India said:

pAIPaindoo burgers like you are so transparent..technics, again, if you have anything to answer the OP do it. Otherwise stop being a slob and bugger off.

 

@Vilander

 

[zen]

del

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by zen

[coffee_rules]

On 10/30/2022 at 1:48 AM, Gollum said:

Test cricket is main for me, that shows the true worth of  any cricket nation. We are behind Lanka, and will take us at least 10 years to surpass Pakistan (due to huge sample size, number of test matches per year, draws etc.). They have more series wins in SENA, better W/L in SENA. They did better in WI when WI cricket was at its prime.

 

   What you taaking about? They didn’t win their first series in WI until 2016-17 . They are better than India in Eng and NZ in swinging conditions . India is much much better in Aus bouncy pitches and both are yet to win a test series in SA. SL plays 2-test serieses doesn’t count in comparison!  Check historical Test ranking , Iindia were #1 back in 1971 itself. Last time I checked, Pakistan were on top for about 16 weeks in all of Test cricket history.

 

On 10/30/2022 at 1:48 AM, Gollum said:

 

On 10/30/2022 at 10:09 PM, MechEng said:

@Gollum has channeled the Harsh Thokar urf Haaris Tauqeer in him through this thread.

 Lol

Edited November 20, 2022 by coffee_rules

[Dil Dil India]

@Gollumbhai has clearly been reading too much Pak propaganda of late and has bought into the hype ;) 

[Dil Dil India]

Update - India won their 8th Asia Cup since this post was made and have cut down Pakistan's HTH advantage to 88-75 across formats including a perfect 8-0 at WCs; including 14-1 across WCs and 16-4 in ICC tournaments......if we start playing our neighbours a bit more that HTH advantage will no longer exist and the great last bastion of BVB, Iconoclaust, MIG and other paindoos would be gone.

[NameGoesHere]

1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

Update - India won their 8th Asia Cup since this post was made and have cut down Pakistan's HTH advantage to 88-75 across formats including a perfect 8-0 at WCs; including 14-1 across WCs and 16-4 in ICC tournaments......if we start playing our neighbours a bit more that HTH advantage will no longer exist and the great last bastion of BVB, Iconoclaust, MIG and other paindoos would be gone.

I wonder if anyone has done a decade wise analysis or percentage of games (Test, ODI, 20:20) won/ lost  by India and Pakistan when they’re playing each other?

 

For example of the X games played between India and Pakistan in the 1980s, India won A% of games, Pakistan B%, rest draw or rained out or  tie or whatever.  
 

And so on for the 1990s, 2000s, 2010s and so on. 
 

It could be interesting to see how these percentages have changed.  Since we don’t play them much any more. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by NameGoesHere

[BH-BAIB]

Even a better country 

Lu Li la 

[deathmonger]

7 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

Update - India won their 8th Asia Cup since this post was made and have cut down Pakistan's HTH advantage to 88-75 across formats including a perfect 8-0 at WCs; including 14-1 across WCs and 16-4 in ICC tournaments......if we start playing our neighbours a bit more that HTH advantage will no longer exist and the great last bastion of BVB, Iconoclaust, MIG and other paindoos would be gone.

All of their bastions keep falling one by one.

 

Earlier they used to cope by India has a higher poverty rate - now it's Pakistan with the higher poverty rate.

 

Earlier they used to cope by saying they have better fast bowlers - now India has

 

Even this "H2H" will fall eventually considering the gap will grow even more.

 

India has a better W/L ratio in both ODIs and T20s. Tests also will be there in a few years, even though we started playing test cricket before "Pakeeestan" even existed.

 

Pakistanis are destined to live a painful life watching India succeed in every field and die as bitter old people, wondering where it all went wrong.

[deathmonger]

5 hours ago, NameGoesHere said:

I wonder if anyone has done a decade wise analysis or percentage of games (Test, ODI, 20:20) won/ lost  by India and Pakistan when they’re playing each other?

 

For example of the X games played between India and Pakistan in the 1980s, India won A% of games, Pakistan B%, rest draw or rained out or  tie or whatever.  
 

And so on for the 1990s, 2000s, 2010s and so on. 
 

It could be interesting to see how these percentages have changed.  Since we don’t play them much any more. 

 

1980s - W 10 L 23 - W/L 0.434

1990s - W 18 L 28 - W/L 0.642

2000s - W 23 L 25 - W/L 0.920

2010s - W 15 L 5 - W/L 3.000

2020s - W 4 L 2 - W/L 2.000

 

That 2010s and 2020s would be higher if there were tests.

 

[NameGoesHere]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

 

1980s - W 10 L 23 - W/L 0.434

1990s - W 18 L 28 - W/L 0.642

2000s - W 23 L 25 - W/L 0.920

2010s - W 15 L 5 - W/L 3.000

2020s - W 4 L 2 - W/L 2.000

 

That 2010s and 2020s would be higher if there were tests.

 

That’s quite interesting  thanks

These are ODI numbers?  If Tests also there must be some draws too. 

[deathmonger]

3 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

That’s quite interesting  thanks

These are ODI numbers?  If Tests also there must be some draws too. 

Combined. Let me make a format list.

 

1980s

Tests - W1 L4 D17

ODIs - W9 L19 NR2

 

1990s

Tests - W1 L2

ODIs - W17 L26 NR2

 

2000s

Tests - W4 L3 D5

ODIs - W18 L22

T20s - W2 L0

 

2010s

ODIs - W10 L4

T20s - W4 L1

 

2020s

ODIs - W2 L0

T20s - W2 L2

 

Their real glory days were the 80s but most Pakistanis weren't even alive to see it.

 

Pakistan's average age is 20 so most Pakistanis formational memories were the 07 final and Mohali lol.

 

 

[Dil Dil India]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

All of their bastions keep falling one by one.

 

Earlier they used to cope by India has a higher poverty rate - now it's Pakistan with the higher poverty rate.

 

Earlier they used to cope by saying they have better fast bowlers - now India has

 

Even this "H2H" will fall eventually considering the gap will grow even more.

 

India has a better W/L ratio in both ODIs and T20s. Tests also will be there in a few years, even though we started playing test cricket before "Pakeeestan" even existed.

 

Pakistanis are destined to live a painful life watching India succeed in every field and die as bitter old people, wondering where it all went wrong.

Great post. Regarding tests, I checked recently and India have pretty much the same W/L as Pak. India have some pre 1947 losses attributed to them (British India) but despite that there's nothing in it.

 

I really wish India Pak still played tests. On turners, Babar would be a sitting duck against Ashwin and Jadeja. It is really stupid for us not to play with Pak IMO when we have a better team by far. Knowing Pak's luck we will start playing more again when we happen to be in a transition phase. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Dil Dil India

[putrevus]

The reason why India still has not taken lead in H2H in all formats is Indian batting with Fab 4 of Fab5 .

 

They were never able to dominate Pakistan in 2000s, they even let them draw a test series in 2004.

 

If fab 4 had any muscle in their batting against Pakistan then it would have been onesided affair since 2000. Pakistan were able to compete with guys like Trundlers Naveed and spinners like Kaneria in India.

 

Our great match winner Kumble always had problems even in India against Pakistan.

[bones]

If we look at this objectively, compared to the economies of both countries, the cricket infrastructure, the difference in board corruption and the like. India has significantly underachieved and Pakistan has over-achieved.

 

India, I'm guessing, is making what 6/7/8 maybe times more money and investing a good portion back into grassroots but still they for the most part not dominating the game.

 

Pakistan though, need to root out the corruption and build a solid cricket infrastructure otherwise eventually the points I make above will mean India pull away.

 

Pakistan's full strength first team wouldn't be too far off India in any of the formats. But Pakistan's second XI and third XI wouldn't be able to cope.

 

As for this thread - Indian fas are in essence no different to the fans they claim to be more mature and sensible than.

[deathmonger]

14 minutes ago, bones said:

If we look at this objectively, compared to the economies of both countries, the cricket infrastructure, the difference in board corruption and the like. India has significantly underachieved and Pakistan has over-achieved.

 

India, I'm guessing, is making what 6/7/8 maybe times more money and investing a good portion back into grassroots but still they for the most part not dominating the game.

 

Pakistan though, need to root out the corruption and build a solid cricket infrastructure otherwise eventually the points I make above will mean India pull away.

 

Pakistan's full strength first team wouldn't be too far off India in any of the formats. But Pakistan's second XI and third XI wouldn't be able to cope.

 

As for this thread - Indian fas are in essence no different to the fans they claim to be more mature and sensible than.

Not really considering men's cricket is the only thing they have. Women's cricket they suck.

 

Men's hockey has-beens.

 

Wrestling, badminton, boxing, shooting never-weres and these are fields where India has won multiple Olympic/World championship medals.

 

India is already pulling away in men's cricket too. 15-5 in the 2010s. Will be even more this decade.

 

Pakistan's full strength first team can only compete in T20s. ODIs and tests no chance. ODIs they have lost ALL of their matches in the last 5 years and none were particularly close.

 

 

[deathmonger]

38 minutes ago, putrevus said:

The reason why India still has not taken lead in H2H in all formats is Indian batting with Fab 4 of Fab5 .

 

They were never able to dominate Pakistan in 2000s, they even let them draw a test series in 2004.

 

If fab 4 had any muscle in their batting against Pakistan then it would have been onesided affair since 2000. Pakistan were able to compete with guys like Trundlers Naveed and spinners like Kaneria in India.

 

Our great match winner Kumble always had problems even in India against Pakistan.

 

Naah. India's bowling was weak.

 

The flatter pitches reduced gap between fab 4 and inzi-moyo-younis who were very good in asia. Plus guys like akmal and misbah could also bat.

 

Plus bowling wasn't too off. Kumble was the better spinner but they had Asif and Akhtar (who didn't really do anything in those 4 series).

 

2003-07 both teams were evenish even though of the four series between 2004-07 it was 3-1 India in odis and 2-1 in tests.

 

Post 2016 in tests with Shami, Ashwin, Jaddu no competition. Plus augmented with Bumrah, Siraj, Axar, Kuldeep later on.

 

Same with ODIs post 2017 with Kuldeep in the mix. And now with the pace trio and Kuldeep it'll be a massacre. I mean their batting has struggled in five consecutive matches against India and Shami did not even play in any of them.

Edited November 3, 2023 by deathmonger

[putrevus]

23 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

 

Naah. India's bowling was weak.

 

The flatter pitches reduced gap between fab 4 and inzi-moyo-younis who were very good in asia. Plus guys like akmal and misbah could also bat.

 

Plus bowling wasn't too off. Kumble was the better spinner but they had Asif and Akhtar (who didn't really do anything in those 4 series).

 

2003-07 both teams were evenish even though of the four series between 2004-07 it was 3-1 India in odis and 2-1 in tests.

 

Post 2016 in tests with Shami, Ashwin, Jaddu no competition. Plus augmented with Bumrah, Siraj, Axar, Kuldeep later on.

 

Same with ODIs post 2017 with Kuldeep in the mix. And now with the pace trio and Kuldeep it'll be a massacre. I mean their batting has struggled in five consecutive matches against India and Shami did not even play in any of them.

Naveed  UL hassan who was MOS in odis in 2004.Last I check was their bowler.

 

Batting was the reason for that ODI loss. Batting collpased under pressure again of that too Afridi to lose test in Banglore.

 

Pakistan had no business of drawing that test series or win odi series. 

 

 

[Dil Dil India]

58 minutes ago, bones said:

If we look at this objectively, compared to the economies of both countries, the cricket infrastructure, the difference in board corruption and the like. India has significantly underachieved and Pakistan has over-achieved.

 

India, I'm guessing, is making what 6/7/8 maybe times more money and investing a good portion back into grassroots but still they for the most part not dominating the game.

 

Pakistan though, need to root out the corruption and build a solid cricket infrastructure otherwise eventually the points I make above will mean India pull away.

 

Pakistan's full strength first team wouldn't be too far off India in any of the formats. But Pakistan's second XI and third XI wouldn't be able to cope.

 

As for this thread - Indian fas are in essence no different to the fans they claim to be more mature and sensible than.

Maturity talk coming from a paindoo Lahori and a Djokovic fan. 

 

Your earlier points are completely irrelevant to the discussion. Stick to cricket because otherwise I will bring up the evolution of INR vs PKR to start with... 

 

T20 is the only format where Pak's first choice 11 would not be far off India's and that is because of the nature of the format. In tests England just smashed you on Pindi roads lol, good luck to Crampswan and Bobar on a 5th day Chennai pitch against Ashwin and Jadeja. In a 5 test series in India, there's a very good chance you lose 4-0 or 5-0.

 

ODI is pakistan'S worst format. In a bilateral series right now Pak would lose at the very least 3-7 over 10 matches and don't bring up aane do series when we had a bunch of has beens and Pak lucked out with toss in difficult conditions. 

 

The results bear this out too... Since the CT win, Pak have been handed thrashing after thrashing in Odis, twice in Asia cup 2018, wc 2019 and twice again this year. 

 

T20 it will be close I'll give you that but even there we are 2-2 including your win toss win match win at t20 wc 2021 in dubai since 2021...and before that Pak repeatedly got spanked in t20s by us. You are delusional if you think India ODI and test 11 and pak ODI and test 11 are comparable. 

 

India won 2 series in a row in Aus.... Pak test team travels there next month, how about we see how they do? Something tells me you wouldn't bet on them not losing every single game. 

[bones]

^^^ Case and point about the so called "sensible" and "mature" posters here.

[Dil Dil India]

6 minutes ago, bones said:

^^^ Case and point about the so called "sensible" and "mature" posters here.

Nothing to counter I take it... this is not Peepee where you take MIGando's words as gospel.