TM finalized 20 players for ODI World Cup squad

[Nikhil_cric]

Questionable picks  

 

Bumrah - Injured and won't play enough 

                  OdIs before World Cup

 

Unadkat - Why?

 

SKY - wrong format 

 

Jadeja -  His LOI numbers have been                             rubbish for years 

Washi  - poor List A numbers

[deepdynamo]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Questionable picks  

 

Bumrah - Injured and won't play enough 

                  OdIs before World Cup

 

Unadkat - Why?

 

SKY - wrong format 

 

Jadeja -  His LOI numbers have been                             rubbish for years 

Washi  - poor List A numbers

But do we have players from outside of these 20 players ( in the first post) to pick our final 15 member squad.

I highly doubt. There aren't enough matches to test any new players and the old players have been tried and tested and we all know what they offer.

[Nikhil_cric]

31 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

But do we have players from outside of these 20 players ( in the first post) to pick our final 15 member squad.

I highly doubt. There aren't enough matches to test any new players and the old players have been tried and tested and we all know what they offer.

That is another issue. These 9 ODIs against SL, OZ and NZ were the perfect opportunity to try out the likes of Tewatia, Parag and others that folks have mentioned. 

 

A couple of them can bowl as well as bat briskly down the order.

 

When England planned for the 2019 World Cup, they found that the strongest correlation with World Cup success was batting strike rate. That's why why built a squad around the best hitters in the country.  Secondly, it was with W/L ratio in bilaterals for 2 years before the World Cup and 3rdly with the experience of squad members .

 

This is why,  ideally,  planning for a World Cup should begin after after end of previous one . 

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

44 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

That is another issue. These 9 ODIs against SL, OZ and NZ were the perfect opportunity to try out the likes of Tewatia, Parag and others that folks have mentioned. 

 

A couple of them can bowl as well as bat briskly down the order.

 

When England planned for the 2019 World Cup, they found that the strongest correlation with World Cup success was batting strike rate. That's why why built a squad around the best hitters in the country.  Secondly, it was with W/L ratio in bilaterals for 2 years before the World Cup and 3rdly with the experience of squad members .

 

This is why,  ideally,  planning for a World Cup should begin after after end of previous one . 

 

& that's where we lack, we don't go with any vision and just randomly select any squad with the hope that it will stick.
 

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

That is another issue. These 9 ODIs against SL, OZ and NZ were the perfect opportunity to try out the likes of Tewatia, Parag and others that folks have mentioned. 

 

A couple of them can bowl as well as bat briskly down the order.

 

When England planned for the 2019 World Cup, they found that the strongest correlation with World Cup success was batting strike rate. That's why why built a squad around the best hitters in the country.  Secondly, it was with W/L ratio in bilaterals for 2 years before the World Cup and 3rdly with the experience of squad members .

 

This is why,  ideally,  planning for a World Cup should begin after after end of previous one . 

 

 

 

 

Do we have hitters like Jason Roy, Bairtstow or Alex hales stored somewhere in the system.Do we have anyone at number 4 like Eoin Morgan?

 

England could do that as they had players .

 

Do we have any bright talent as good as Harry Brook?

 

 

[putrevus]

When guy like SKY fails for few matches , people are rushing into judgement on his ability as if India is loaded with better talents than him.

[Nikhil_cric]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

When guy like SKY fails for few matches , people are rushing into judgement on his ability as if India is loaded with better talents than him.

How would you even know without trying guys like Parag, Tewatia etc.  In one of the threads,  you were saying Gill was a failure in T20I's and there was no reason to give him chances in ODI cricket. 

 

But Gill has proven that he belongs in this format. So why not give chances to those with decent averages and strike rates in list A cricket or those who pass the eye test. 

[singhvivek141]

48 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Do we have hitters like Jason Roy, Bairtstow or Alex hales stored somewhere in the system.Do we have anyone at number 4 like Eoin Morgan?

 

England could do that as they had players .

 

Do we have any bright talent as good as Harry Brook?

Roy and Hales are not as consistent hitters as we're portraying them, also these players are identified and groomed through the system.
England had started working on identifying the team from 2015 WC onwards...they failed multiple times but they ha patience with the pool on whom they trusted.

 

India leapfrogs everyone in U-19 tours, which shows that we have what you call as raw talent.Now it's BCCI's failure that they don't have any vision for these players.
Gill is as talented as Harry Brook is.

[singhvivek141]

54 minutes ago, putrevus said:

When guy like SKY fails for few matches , people are rushing into judgement on his ability as if India is loaded with better talents than him.

It's an ever persistent problem with selectors and fans. While the seniors will continue to freeload for years with odd performances here and there.

[putrevus]

38 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

How would you even know without trying guys like Parag, Tewatia etc.  In one of the threads,  you were saying Gill was a failure in T20I's and there was no reason to give him chances in ODI cricket. 

 

But Gill has proven that he belongs in this format. So why not give chances to those with decent averages and strike rates in list A cricket or those who pass the eye test. 

Are we not seeing them in IPL. Since when Gill is a sucesss in t20s. Even Rahul Dravid has 22 ball 50 that does it mean he was a great odi player.

 

Gill to his credit has improved his power game but I still don't think has power game suited for T20s. I will be happy to be proven wrong.

 

A young player does not need to given chances in all formats, it is upto him to prove himself in format he has been chosen.That applies to Gill also.

Edited March 21, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Roy and Hales are not as consistent hitters as we're portraying them, also these players are identified and groomed through the system.
England had started working on identifying the team from 2015 WC onwards...they failed multiple times but they ha patience with the pool on whom they trusted.

 

India leapfrogs everyone in U-19 tours, which shows that we have what you call as raw talent.Now it's BCCI's failure that they don't have any vision for these players.
Gill is as talented as Harry Brook is.

You cannot have consistentcy and High SR togther in one player. It works for England as they have a very long batting lineup.
 

England did not reivent the wheel.India had Sehwag much before England had these guys but Sehwag worked because there was Tendulkar and others who could  pickup the slack if he failed.

 

Stop bringing U19 as if it is some barometer for talent. India would be 1000 times if they discard that useless under 19 world cups.

 

How is so called cannot miss talent like Chand doing, how many stars has it produced?

 

I have not seen a talent like Brook since Tendulkar.You will see the difference between Gill and Brook later this year in Ashes. I hope you right in your assessment of Gill.

 

 

 

[AKane]

Ashwin will be in WC squad and probably all 3 Ashwin/Jadeja/Axar in the 11.

 

Dravid will want this and even if he does not want it - it will happen.

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, AKane said:

Ashwin will be in WC squad and probably all 3 Ashwin/Jadeja/Axar in the 11.

 

Dravid will want this and even if he does not want it - it will happen.

 

That will be a disasterous move. Ashwin/Jadeja/Axar/Sundar none of these are capable of big hitting against pace. Deepak Chahar is decent against pace in death overs. But he doesn't seem to be interested in international cricket.  Thakur's stocks as batsman have gone down.  Two guys they should have tried given that it happens in India is Nitish Rana and Ryan Parag.

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

You cannot have consistentcy and High SR togther in one player. It works for England as they have a very long batting lineup.
 

England did not reivent the wheel.India had Sehwag much before England had these guys but Sehwag worked because there was Tendulkar and others who could  pickup the slack if he failed.

 

Stop bringing U19 as if it is some barometer for talent. India would be 1000 times if they discard that useless under 19 world cups.

 

How is so called cannot miss talent like Chand doing, how many stars has it produced?

 

I have not seen a talent like Brook since Tendulkar.You will see the difference between Gill and Brook later this year in Ashes. I hope you right in your assessment of Gill.

 

 

 

When I say U-19 talent, I mean to say that there is a big talented pool available for India. Some of them will perish while some will thrive as not every player will come from U-19 setup only.

 

Look at the senior players in the team, Pujara, Kohli, Jadeja, Dhawan, Rohit all of them became famous due to their U-19 perfomances (atleast Pujara, Kohli, jadeja, Rohit were....Dhawan took some time). Yes, Chand failed but he gave up too easily. 
Dhawan after playing 2004 U-19 WC waited for 6 years to get national cap...and 8 years to make debut in Tests. Pujara played 2008 U-19 WC with Eoin Morgan but had to wait longer to get debut because we had seniors blocking the place.

 

Pant also got limelight due to his U-19 exploits, so did Sarfaraz and Ishan Kishan. Jaiswal is another one who's talented from the U-19 batch.

[eulbninem]

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

& that's where we lack, we don't go with any vision and just randomly select any squad with the hope that it will stick.
 

Reminds me of Gavaskar's statement after the semi final in 2019. "Let's face, there have been a lot of baffling decisions over the last couple of years. Ambati Rayudu for example - he should have been brought here," Gavaskar said. "Why and how can you explain to me you bring in a Mayank Agarwal? He hasn't played a single ODI as yet. He just came before the Sri Lanka game, the last league game, (so) you want to him to make his debut in a semifinals or a final in case a slot was open? Why not bring in an Ambati Rayudu, who is your standby? Very disappointing to see what happened yesterday."

Edited March 21, 2023 by eulbninem

[putrevus]

9 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

It's an ever persistent problem with selectors and fans. While the seniors will continue to freeload for years with odd performances here and there.

Which senior is freeloading for years care to explain. Kohli IMO deserved all the chances he has got in last three years. I don't see him stopping any ultra talented player.

 

Rahul for some reason gets lumped with Kohli and Rohit.He should have been gone from T20 and test long time ago.

Edited March 21, 2023 by putrevus

[putrevus]

6 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

When I say U-19 talent, I mean to say that there is a big talented pool available for India. Some of them will perish while some will thrive as not every player will come from U-19 setup only.

 

Look at the senior players in the team, Pujara, Kohli, Jadeja, Dhawan, Rohit all of them became famous due to their U-19 perfomances (atleast Pujara, Kohli, jadeja, Rohit were....Dhawan took some time). Yes, Chand failed but he gave up too easily. 
Dhawan after playing 2004 U-19 WC waited for 6 years to get national cap...and 8 years to make debut in Tests. Pujara played 2008 U-19 WC with Eoin Morgan but had to wait longer to get debut because we had seniors blocking the place.

 

Pant also got limelight due to his U-19 exploits, so did Sarfaraz and Ishan Kishan. Jaiswal is another one who's talented from the U-19 batch.

I agree but those u19 cricketers cannot be fast tracked into national side. They need to play atleast 2to 3 years before they are fast tracked.Offcourse if players is super talented, he will be fast tracked.

 

The players you are talking about all are pre IPL, post IPL expectations from players have increased without having the ability.

 

These U-19 payers still need to play FC, List A and Mustaq ali trophy for couple of seasons. We are still waiting to see the fast U-19 fast  bowling attack which drew so much attention. None of them have graduated to even IPL forget India.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That will be a disasterous move. Ashwin/Jadeja/Axar/Sundar none of these are capable of big hitting against pace. Deepak Chahar is decent against pace in death overs. But he doesn't seem to be interested in international cricket.  Thakur's stocks as batsman have gone down.  Two guys they should have tried given that it happens in India is Nitish Rana and Ryan Parag.

rana seems like a grade A hack to me. parag on the other hand is still pretty young and his leg spin is coming along well

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

I agree but those u19 cricketers cannot be fast tracked into national side. They need to play atleast 2to 3 years before they are fast tracked.Offcourse if players is super talented, he will be fast tracked.

 

The players you are talking about all are pre IPL, post IPL expectations from players have increased without having the ability.

 

These U-19 payers still need to play FC, List A and Mustaq ali trophy for couple of seasons. We are still waiting to see the fast U-19 fast  bowling attack which drew so much attention. None of them have graduated to even IPL forget India.

Yashasvi Jaiswal is from post IPL era...he averages 80 and 53 in FC & List A respectively...scored runs in A tours as well.

Sarfaraz averages 80 in FC as well...he is also from post IPL era but no place for him.

Kartik Tyagi has played only 2 FC matches for UP despite perfoming well in his inagural IPL and then on A tour to Australia. I'm not talking about his place in SRH because I know franchise's reasons to play Nattu and Bhuvi. But don't think it's a good reason to not give him chance for domestic teams because he was injury free for larger part of the year.
Mohsin Khan also struggles to find a place in Ranji but he performed in IPL. Now all of them are injured suddenly and NCA is keeping up good work in screwing everyone. 

Sushant got the meagre opportunity this year for Jharkhand when Varun Aaron went to Baroda...else he would have been carrying drinks this season as well.

 

There are multiple examples....Nagarkoti finally played good amount of matches this year (and performed decently) because he was struggling first with injuries and then with seniority pipeline of Rajasthan.

Edited March 22, 2023 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

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Edited March 22, 2023 by singhvivek141