Hindenburg group accuses Adani group of fraud

[Khota]

On 8/22/2023 at 2:09 PM, BlueBlood said:

It's already been two terms.

 

Close to 10 years of rule - similar to Manmohan Singh rule.

 

China, Vietnam, Mexico, many South American nations like Brazil, Chile etc. Have had tremendous prosperity during this time uplifting the middle class.

 

In that time frame of last 10 years there has been insane money printing across Europe and Americas making all assets everywhere go up. I.e. money has become less valuable and assets have become more valuable.

 

The Indian rupee has become less valuable against the dollar in this backdrop whole Modi claimed his Make in India campaign will make rupee stronger at 50 rupees. Never happened.

 

The point here is, the income inequality has gotten so much worse than ever before. 

 

With power concentrated in the hands of Adani at the level it is, you will have rampant mismanagement. He should have never been given ability to buy up Airports which he had no experience in managing and changing of laws to make him purchase them.

 

Similarly, Reliance should not have been given free hand in virtually monopolizing Oil, cell phone and now supermarkets.

 

This eliminates the ability for small businesses to compete and thrive as they will be destroyed due to economies of scale.

 

Even countries like Vietnam, Mexico and China know this and have laws that prevent such accumulation and concentration of power.

 

The problem with current government compared to the previous ones is that any such discussion is quashed as anti-national leaving no room for debate.

 

The fact that Vijay Mallya, Adani and other scandals are exposed by outside Indian sources is all we need to know about censorship and corporate media ownership.

 

If you allow a few business people to buy up all the resources, you will have zero motivation for the next generation to want to innovate or try as the rules are stacked against their favor.

 

You mention PV Narsimha Rao but forget that we are making the same mistakes of the License Raj in the past in the guise of nationalism. 

Vietnam is cleaning India's clock. They have more exports than India and their engineering force is nowhere near India's.

 

What P V Narsimha Rao and his successor Manmohan Singh achieved is unparoled in Indian growth.

 

And educated people here defending Adani who does not care to defend himself properly is the biggest disgrace. 

 

Adanis manipulation and government nnot doing anything about is about as anti-national activity as one can perceive.

 

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Vietnam is cleaning India's clock. They have more exports than India and their engineering force is nowhere near India's.

 

What P V Narsimha Rao and his successor Manmohan Singh achieved is unparoled in Indian growth.

 

And educated people here defending Adani who does not care to defend himself properly is the biggest disgrace. 

 

Adanis manipulation and government nnot doing anything about is about as anti-national activity as one can perceive.

 

 

$403B >>> $356B that’s math for you.

[Khota]

26 minutes ago, gattaca said:

 

$403B >>> $356B that’s math for you.

They are running a surplus against India.

[Singh bling]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:42 PM, mishra said:

Very Basic facts.

1. Under Nehuru, Asia on average grew at over 6% while iNdia grew below 4%

2. Under Indiraji story was worse

3. Militarily, Technicalogically and economically Pakistan was at same level till Narsimha Rao. Its under him that we took a decisive turn. Not under Fraud Gandhis and Nehurus.

India was poorly managed  but China was equally poorly managed and till 1987 economies were comparable. But China started pulling away. All under "Vishudhh Congress"rule.

4. Unless Chinese economy shrinks, there is no official catching up because a 5% of 20 trillion is significantly higher than 7% of 3 trillion. So what is there to compare.

 

People opposing current regime forget that its current regime which has followed correct geopolitics and geo ecomic policies and hopefully that will get Indian economy to grow despite other economies (specially China) to go into shrink mode .

 

 

And Yes, Untill 2014 average Indian used to compare India with countries you mentioned. Average Indian has now come out of that mentality. India suddenly has a voice since 2014. Wait and watch what happens in next Modi sarkar

 

 

Despite claims per capita consumption of quality high protein food is still comparable to Pakistan Bangladesh Sri Lanka and Nepal and not with china or any other country 

[diga]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

Despite claims per capita consumption of quality high protein food is still comparable to Pakistan Bangladesh Sri Lanka and Nepal and not with china or any other country 

High quality protein food... Hmm. You bring in new index & new goalposts. Lage raho

[ravishingravi]

9 hours ago, Khota said:

Vietnam is cleaning India's clock. They have more exports than India and their engineering force is nowhere near India's.

 

What P V Narsimha Rao and his successor Manmohan Singh achieved is unparoled in Indian growth.

 

And educated people here defending Adani who does not care to defend himself properly is the biggest disgrace. 

 

Adanis manipulation and government nnot doing anything about is about as anti-national activity as one can perceive.

 

 

Yes sometimes even I feel very strongly about subjects without reading anything on them and without having any facts with me. It can feel helpless. Then I wake up. 

[Singh bling]

5 hours ago, diga said:

High quality protein food... Hmm. You bring in new index & new goalposts. Lage raho

It's a common sense that when people get money in their hand they first spend it on good food . In 90s their were several newspaper columns that how chinese demand is pushing prices of some food items in world . Anyway but you people think that Modi was economist, a rocket scientist, and expert in everything so his 5 kg wheat and rice is more than enough for 80 crore plus population to meet their nutrition requirement. Tum bhi lage raho

[BlueBlood]

12 hours ago, mishra said:

See, points you are making is very generic and true for every country irrespective of time and will remain true and its gets further support by skewed data and ranking by rich corporates. Reliance group is $220Billion so a 6-7% growth will mean they will add $15 bilion next year to their net worth. No government can stop that. Period.

 

However if one uses common sense they will have to see other data. For example social mobilty. Now this data is also subjective and gets muddled with agenda of ones financing the data collection and reporting. But you can have some indiacations.

 

So next moove on to hard factual data. For me a key data is about unicorn count. India now has over 100+ unicorns (last time when i checked it was 89) worth $300+ billion and in my opinion unicorn count is key indicator. We have a lot of catch up to do and We must strive to achive 10-20% increase in unicorn count Year on Year.

 

Your claim regarding disinvestment and licese falls flat wrt data check below graph.  IMO disnvestment in LIC, SBI, Indian Railways and Air India should have been done way before 2014. GoI must let busisnesses run by businessmen.

 

 

Before you claim something as truth rely on hard facts to find the truth and not other way round

 

Points I am making is definitely not generic.

 

You suddenly bring number of unicorns in India. Not a single one of the unicorns are in manufacturing, clean tech or any future export oriented companies.

 

In fact the platform for the technology space was laid out back in 2001-2002 when IT sector had tax exemption in India for well over a decade - but you will throw this also into Modi's column.

 

Even unicorns - in 2023 there have been only 3:

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/slowdown-visible-in-indias-startup-story-as-only-three-unicorns-added-in-2023-report/articleshow/101310198.cms?from=mdr

 

And what do unicorns like Baijus or Zerodha do? They are for firms in India making products/services for Indians only - this is a net neutral in terms of GDP per capita growth.

 

You need companies that can produce products/services used by the whole world like what you see with Chinese or Vietnamese or even Mexico (they are one of the largest exporters of cars now).

 

The clear metric is GDP per capita and strength of the currency for a country like India which is the most populous country in the world now. It's sitting at $2,600 USD.

 

Compare to other populous countries:

Brazil: $9,670

China: $13,720

Indonesia: $5,020

 

The only country we really beat is Bangladesh at: $2,470 and Pakistan which is also marginally lower. This is why there's always comparison between these but never a comparison with countries like Brazil or Indonesia or Vietnam etc.

 

The main problem is that outside of the tech and BPO sector which was established long back, India is lagging behind in every single other sector: be it productivity in food sector, manufacturing, exports etc.

 

This is directly linked to government's actions as once you have consolidation in industries like Cell Phones where only Reliance Jio, AirTel, Vodafone/Idea are present while 12 other companies which would have brought innovation and lower prices left.

 

Same with so many other sectors other than the tech and BPO sector. The problem here is BPO and tech is a commoditized sector where all other countries in the last 10 years have caught up with building infrastructure for tech outsourcing - example: Vietnam, Philippines, Eastern Europe etc.

 

This is 100% the fault of BJP as Modi promised 50 rupees for $1 USD - never happened. Promised Make in India will explode the export and manufacturing sector - never happened.

 

The real benchmark in India for it to prosper with the population we have is to dominate the manufacturing and export oriented sectors like China, Mexico, Vietnam and Brazil are doing. An un-educated worker should have incredibly high growth in their wages like those countries - that will mean they will start spending this money within India to then grow their prosperity, if this doesn't happen you can claim greatness all day long but if you remove the top 10 richest people in India, the GDP per capita is so bad that it is laughable.

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

60+ years of socialism based poli and still years of  socialism based policies and same under BJP where at least we are comparable in n PPP , GDP per capita is not the be all and end all of comparison metrics, people expect miracles to happen under Modi. We will go back to UPA soon and we will beat all metrics like anything!!!

[BlueBlood]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

60+ years of socialism based poli and still years of  socialism based policies and same under BJP where at least we are comparable in n PPP , GDP per capita is not the be all and end all of comparison metrics, people expect miracles to happen under Modi. We will go back to UPA soon and we will beat all metrics like anything!!!

 

Yes, let's talk about the past - why not judge on the present.

 

At least in 2000-2003 period Vajpayee and later on the Congress government had the vision of investing heavily on the IT and BPO sector by providing tax exemptions. This fostered incredible growth in this area - most of the people on this forum benefited directly from this one big effort.

 

With Modi, it's smoke and mirrors with not a single such effort. I am first one to say PV Narsimha Rao and Vajpayee were easily the best PM's in Indian history with their vision and leadership that India benefits from even today.

 

Promises were: 50 rupees for $1 USD. Never happened even ONCE in the last 10 years.

Another promise: Make in India campaign: can't even compete with Indonesia let alone Vietnam, Brazil, China etc.

 

People aren't expecting miracles - if you see the media today, the rosy stats being projected is not the ground reality. That's where the problem is. Even in BCCI - they have nepotism entrenched in the top which means the richest money maker for India will always be nepotist and not be able to grow.

 

India gets more money through people LEAVING India for the Arab Nations or USA, UK etc. through remittances than actually from exports.

 

This is where the stats are skewed. The labour class has not progressed one bit in the last 10 years - and this class is the metric from which prosperity is measured.

 

The single biggest blunder was the Make in India campaign which is a massive failure.

 

The fact that India has to ban rice exports as they can't even manage agriculture industry properly goes to show why the productivity in this area alone has been a failure. China, Israel, Brazil etc. have a lot more agricultural productivity than India with much worse arable land.

 

Anyway, the average Indian person is much worse off than the average person in other populated countries barring Bangladesh and Pakistan.

 

That's the ground reality. The biggest reason for this is the top 2 richest people own as much as the bottom 40% and it's getting worse.

 

Yet people like you like slaves worship Adani and Ambani due to regionalist bias.

Edited August 26, 2023 by BlueBlood

[Khota]

4 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Yes sometimes even I feel very strongly about subjects without reading anything on them and without having any facts with me. It can feel helpless. Then I wake up. 

Right now I think you are drinking the cool aid.

[Khota]

1 hour ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Yes, let's talk about the past - why not judge on the present.

 

At least in 2000-2003 period Vajpayee and later on the Congress government had the vision of investing heavily on the IT and BPO sector by providing tax exemptions. This fostered incredible growth in this area - most of the people on this forum benefited directly from this one big effort.

 

With Modi, it's smoke and mirrors with not a single such effort. I am first one to say PV Narsimha Rao and Vajpayee were easily the best PM's in Indian history with their vision and leadership that India benefits from even today.

 

Promises were: 50 rupees for $1 USD. Never happened even ONCE in the last 10 years.

Another promise: Make in India campaign: can't even compete with Indonesia let alone Vietnam, Brazil, China etc.

 

People aren't expecting miracles - if you see the media today, the rosy stats being projected is not the ground reality. That's where the problem is. Even in BCCI - they have nepotism entrenched in the top which means the richest money maker for India will always be nepotist and not be able to grow.

 

India gets more money through people LEAVING India for the Arab Nations or USA, UK etc. through remittances than actually from exports.

 

This is where the stats are skewed. The labour class has not progressed one bit in the last 10 years - and this class is the metric from which prosperity is measured.

 

The single biggest blunder was the Make in India campaign which is a massive failure.

 

The fact that India has to ban rice exports as they can't even manage agriculture industry properly goes to show why the productivity in this area alone has been a failure. China, Israel, Brazil etc. have a lot more agricultural productivity than India with much worse arable land.

 

Anyway, the average Indian person is much worse off than the average person in other populated countries barring Bangladesh and Pakistan.

 

That's the ground reality. The biggest reason for this is the top 2 richest people own as much as the bottom 40% and it's getting worse.

 

Yet people like you like slaves worship Adani and Ambani due to regionalist bias.

Adanis can loot the country and if anyone objects, they call him desh drohi.

 

They only worship power. Any mean that helps them consolidate is acceptable.

[diga]

13 hours ago, Singh bling said:

It's a common sense that when people get money in their hand they first spend it on good food . In 90s their were several newspaper columns that how chinese demand is pushing prices of some food items in world . Anyway but you people think that Modi was economist, a rocket scientist, and expert in everything so his 5 kg wheat and rice is more than enough for 80 crore plus population to meet their nutrition requirement. Tum bhi lage raho

There is a balance between subsidising basic food vs highly enriched protein food.. for the 80crore population, providing it through subsidies is going to suck the country dry.  If you think Modi is the only person responsible for these policies, then your judgement is flawed

[Khota]

13 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

60+ years of socialism based poli and still years of  socialism based policies and same under BJP where at least we are comparable in n PPP , GDP per capita is not the be all and end all of comparison metrics, people expect miracles to happen under Modi. We will go back to UPA soon and we will beat all metrics like anything!!!

GDP per capita is the only yard stick that matters. China is x3 that of India and that is what I call a success story.

 

I will not argue with you about some of the socialism-based policies that were a drag but there have been multiple opportunities squandered by BJP. I don't think UPA would do whole lot better.

 

India needs a reset and that I don't see. I personally agree with a lot that BJP is doing but their obsession with power borderlines fascism. I am one in the minority who thinks Modi is not a bad person but Amit Shah and others are overly aggressive.

 

Now they do need to investigate Adanis independently so that these companies don't steal from Indians.

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

GDP per capita is the only yard stick that matters. China is x3 that of India and that is what I call a success story.

 

I will not argue with you about some of the socialism-based policies that were a drag but there have been multiple opportunities squandered by BJP. I don't think UPA would do whole lot better.

 

India needs a reset and that I don't see. I personally agree with a lot that BJP is doing but their obsession with power borderlines fascism. I am one in the minority who thinks Modi is not a bad person but Amit Shah and others are overly aggressive.

 

Now they do need to investigate Adanis independently so that these companies don't steal from Indians.

GDP per capita is in dollars. We don’t buy essentials in dollars, the purchasing power of the local currency indicates how strong the local currency is in its living conditions . PPP has the country‘s GDP in its consideration. GDP per capita is not the only measure for richness . 

Edited August 26, 2023 by coffee_rules

[Singh bling]

2 hours ago, diga said:

There is a balance between subsidising basic food vs highly enriched protein food.. for the 80crore population, providing it through subsidies is going to suck the country dry.  If you think Modi is the only person responsible for these policies, then your judgement is flawed

I am not pointing towards Modi. All I am saying that there is no increase in per capita consumption of Dals, meat , milk , eggs. The consumption of these is lower or similar to neighbouring nations. This indicates that development has not reached large number of people.

[Khota]

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

GDP per capita is in dollars. We don’t buy essentials in dollars, the purchasing power of the local currency indicates how strong the local currency is in its living conditions . PPP has the country‘s GDP in its consideration. GDP per capita is not the only measure for richness . 

GDP is one of the criteria, even if you take PPP China is ahead of India.

[Khota]

7 hours ago, Singh bling said:

I am not pointing towards Modi. All I am saying that there is no increase in per capita consumption of Dals, meat , milk , eggs. The consumption of these is lower or similar to neighbouring nations. This indicates that development has not reached large number of people.

Development is not going to reach lot of people if money keeps on floating to top, like in case of Ambanis.

[Khota]

Report says close associates of India's Adani Group secretly purchased large numbers of shares (msn.com)

 

More corruption. Unfortunately, it is foreign entities finding it. Indian media and others are refusing to do so.

[Khota]

Massively corrupt practices but has protection. Is really hurting the Indian economy but bots think it is ok.