Indian pace bowling all rounders

[deepdynamo]

In test cricket, we are missing a batsman who can bowl medium pace. Right now we have Shardul who is a bowler who can bat a bit.

 

In Sena, we need batting cusion as well. Shardul at 8 doesn't give me confidence since we have three batting duds after him ( Bumrah, Shami, Siraj)

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, deepdynamo said:

In test cricket, we are missing a batsman who can bowl medium pace. Right now we have Shardul who is a bowler who can bat a bit.

 

In Sena, we need batting cusion as well. Shardul at 8 doesn't give me confidence since we have three batting duds after him ( Bumrah, Shami, Siraj)

I think those three are fine. Shami and Bumrah can knock around for 15-20 and have won a test match with bat as well in Lords 2021.

[Suhaan]

 

[singhvivek141]

On 7/9/2023 at 2:56 PM, deepdynamo said:

In test cricket, we are missing a batsman who can bowl medium pace. Right now we have Shardul who is a bowler who can bat a bit.

 

In Sena, we need batting cusion as well. Shardul at 8 doesn't give me confidence since we have three batting duds after him ( Bumrah, Shami, Siraj)

Harshit come in as third pacer on rotation basis..he can bat well.

Bumrah and Shami can hang around for 10-15 runs, only Siraj is useless with the bat.

[Majestic]

Top all rounders :-

 

1. Sobers

2. Imran

3. Kallis

4. Botham

5. Miller

6. Kapil

7. Stokes

8. T Greig

9. Cairns

10. Flintoff

11. Shakib

12.Jadeja

 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, Majestic said:

Top all rounders :-

 

1. Sobers

2. Imran

3. Kallis

4. Botham

5. Miller

6. Kapil

7. Stokes

8. T Greig

9. Cairns

10. Flintoff

11. Shakib

12.Jadeja

 

13. Pollock

14. Brian McMillan

15. Klusner 

[Majestic]

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

13. Pollock

14. Brian McMillan

15. Klusner 

Either we consider Pollock as all rounder in top bracket ( based on his overall value as cricketer) or we don't consider him. No point putting him below Flintoff or Shakib.

 

Also, my list had given some value to ODIs also especially for post 90s players hence Flintoff and Shakib both ahead of Jadeja.

[Lord]

28 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Either we consider Pollock as all rounder in top bracket ( based on his overall value as cricketer) or we don't consider him. No point putting him below Flintoff or Shakib.

 

Also, my list had given some value to ODIs also especially for post 90s players hence Flintoff and Shakib both ahead of Jadeja.

 

Pollock was definitely better than likes of Cairns and Greig, all formats combined.

[putrevus]

17 hours ago, Majestic said:

Top all rounders :-

 

1. Sobers

2. Imran

3. Kallis

4. Botham

5. Miller

6. Kapil

7. Stokes

8. T Greig

9. Cairns

10. Flintoff

11. Shakib

12.Jadeja

 

How is Imran second best?on What basis?

[Majestic]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

How is Imran second best?on What basis?

Averages 22 with bowl and 38 with bat.

 

Great record in most places and the numbers he has stacked up are crazy. Sample is over 80 tests as well.

[singhvivek141]

10 hours ago, Majestic said:

Either we consider Pollock as all rounder in top bracket ( based on his overall value as cricketer) or we don't consider him. No point putting him below Flintoff or Shakib.

 

Also, my list had given some value to ODIs also especially for post 90s players hence Flintoff and Shakib both ahead of Jadeja.

Usually batting allrounders get more recognition than bowling allrounders, hence likes of Pollock are usually underrated in comparison to Stokes. Pollock as a batsman was as good as Jadeja, while as a bowler he is an ATG. 

 

I would put him at no 5 above Keith Miller.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

18 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Averages 22 with bowl and 38 with bat.

 

Great record in most places and the numbers he has stacked up are crazy. Sample is over 80 tests as well.

Imran was a player who transitioned from being a pure bowler to a batter. I have to see the stats in detail, but based on what my memory serves, he was not excellent in both disciplines simultaneously...unlike Botham.

 

Ofcourse, I can't ignore the taints that he as a player (and his team) carry which creates an overall question mark over his professionalism and actual ability.

 

I would keep Sobers at 2, Botham 3 and Imran at 4. Kallis is the best batsman in the entire list and a better bowler than Sobers.

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Imran was a player who transitioned from being a pure bowler to a batter. I have to see the stats in detail, but based on what my memory serves, he was not excellent in both disciplines simultaneously...unlike Botham.

 

Ofcourse, I can't ignore the taints that he as a player (and his team) carry which creates an overall question mark over his professionalism and actual ability.

 

I would keep Sobers at 2, Botham 3 and Imran at 4. Kallis is the best batsman in the entire list and a better bowler than Sobers.

if you set aside his cheating, there was a period when Imran did well with both bat and ball. botham was the best at both disciplines if we only consider a burst.

 

btw, as one of the few who saw sobers bat (albeit toward end of career), strongly disagree that kallis was better than him as a bat. bowling-wise, sobers took the bowling load of a frontline bowler, whereas kallis could afford to be 5th or even 6th bowler, which is less taxing

Edited July 13, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

Is this thread about Indian pace bowling ARs or not?

 

I see the following candidates as of now for tests/LOIs:

 

1. Hardik: good enough for ODIs and T20s for now, although his batting ability is decreasing. should not play tests.

2. Raj Bawa: high hopes from him; can bat in top 6 and also be a full-fledged bowler in LOIs

3. Rajvardhan Hangu: tonker down the order, and bowling also seems raw

4. shardul thakur & deepak chahar: both are bowlers who can bat; thakur is better bowler and chahar is better bat. however, neither are long-term options.

5. harshit rana: can bat at 8, and is a solid bowler who can be selected on basis of bowling.

6. yudhvir singh: have not seen enough of him

[singhvivek141]

20 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Is this thread about Indian pace bowling ARs or not?

 

I see the following candidates as of now for tests/LOIs:

 

1. Hardik: good enough for ODIs and T20s for now, although his batting ability is decreasing. should not play tests.

2. Raj Bawa: high hopes from him; can bat in top 6 and also be a full-fledged bowler in LOIs

3. Rajvardhan Hangu: tonker down the order, and bowling also seems raw

4. shardul thakur & deepak chahar: both are bowlers who can bat; thakur is better bowler and chahar is better bat. however, neither are long-term options.

5. harshit rana: can bat at 8, and is a solid bowler who can be selected on basis of bowling.

6. yudhvir singh: have not seen enough of him

7. Kamlesh Nagarkoti

8. Gurnoor Brar

 

Both have some ability with the bat..Nagarkoti has declined a bit in terms of batting but he seems to working on again over his skills. Gurnoor Brar has hitting ability like Harshit Rana.

[Majestic]

13 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Usually batting allrounders get more recognition than bowling allrounders, hence likes of Pollock are usually underrated in comparison to Stokes. Pollock as a batsman was as good as Jadeja, while as a bowler he is an ATG. 

 

I would put him at no 5 above Keith Miller.

 

 

You put him at 13 above so I doubted. I would have him in my all rounders list too. 

[Majestic]

13 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Imran was a player who transitioned from being a pure bowler to a batter. I have to see the stats in detail, but based on what my memory serves, he was not excellent in both disciplines simultaneously...unlike Botham.

 

Ofcourse, I can't ignore the taints that he as a player (and his team) carry which creates an overall question mark over his professionalism and actual ability.

 

I would keep Sobers at 2, Botham 3 and Imran at 4. Kallis is the best batsman in the entire list and a better bowler than Sobers.

Imran has 6 hundreds and an average of 38 which definitely qualifies him in all rounder category and even good in his weaker suit too. Yes, he may not be as good with bat as Botham but he was no Hadlee or Ashwin either. Imran has hundreds in various part of the world and a match winning knock in World Cup Final after coming to bat at 3, that alone qualify him to that all rounder category. He will definitely be my no.2.  Sobers is no.1 undeniably.

[putrevus]

13 hours ago, Majestic said:

Averages 22 with bowl and 38 with bat.

 

Great record in most places and the numbers he has stacked up are crazy. Sample is over 80 tests as well.

He has 3 hundreds against India on flattest decks along with another 100 against WI on another flat deck in Pakistan.

 

He scored 3 100s after 1987 when he longer was a bowler.

 

Samaraveera averages 49 where guy like Gordon Greenidge  avgs 45. Thilan is not even half the player Greenidge was as a batsmen.Stats don't tell everything.

 

 

Imran was always a bowler who could bat , to call him a great allrounder is ridiculous.

Edited July 13, 2023 by putrevus

[Majestic]

On 7/13/2023 at 11:12 PM, putrevus said:

He has 3 hundreds against India on flattest decks along with another 100 against WI on another flat deck in Pakistan.

 

He scored 3 100s after 1987 when he longer was a bowler.

 

Samaraveera averages 49 where guy like Gordon Greenidge  avgs 45. Thilan is not even half the player Greenidge was as a batsmen.Stats don't tell everything.

 

 

Imran was always a bowler who could bat , to call him a great allrounder is ridiculous.

For all rounders with bowling as stronger suit, these filters don't matter. Imran has 6 hundreds in 88 tests and a match winning knock in ODIs batting at 3 in the World Cup Final 1992. It doesn't get any bigger occasion than that.

 

An average of 38 in a weaker suit is unheard of. Guys like Miller, Botham, Kapil, Cairns, Flintoff all averages lesser than him. I don't rate Imran as high as his batting average but this doesn't disqualify him from all rounder definition.

 

Greenidge vs Samarveera is a wrong comparison because former was an opener while latter was no.5. Samarveera has poor record in Ind, Aus, Eng which is why he can't be rated in elite league.

[Vijy]

15 hours ago, Majestic said:

For all rounders with bowling as stronger suit, these filters don't matter. Imran has 6 hundreds in 88 tests and a match winning knock in ODIs batting at 3 in the World Cup Final 1992. It doesn't get any bigger occasion than that.

 

An average of 38 in a weaker suit is unheard of. Guys like Miller, Botham, Kapil, Cairns, Flintoff all averages lesser than him. I don't rate Imran as high as his batting average but this doesn't disqualify him from all rounder definition.

 

Greenidge vs Samarveera is a wrong comparison because former was an opener while latter was no.5. Samarveera has poor record in Ind, Aus, Eng which is why he can't be rated in elite league.

damien martyn (who often played at 5) has an avg of 2 less than samaraweera. I know which of the two I would rather select