Indian pace bowling all rounders

[Chakdephatte]

1. Pandya

2. Thakur

3. Chahar

???

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

https://twitter.com/FanCode/status/1671061322304491520?s=20

 

Arshin Kulkarni. Will follow him for some years. Can actually be a prospect. Already has power, all of 18.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Chakdephatte

[vvvslaxman]

Chahar is fit only for T10 cricket. Thakur playing tests is a major surprise given his fitness. Credit to him. Pandya's current bowling ability will allow him to play T5 cricket where he can bowl 1 over.

[zen]

Definitely, these are rare commodities in India. 

 

Sir Don is being requested by the selectors to play tests so that should be interesting if he decides to don the whites or continues to focus on white ball cricket. 

 

 

[rkt.india]

Suryansh Shedge and Raj Angad Bawa are the two promising young pace alrounders. 

[Majestic]

Pace bowling all rounders are rare in India. It is even more harder for a pace bowling A/R to sustain his fitness and form in India.

 

That's why Kapil Dev is an ATG cricketer and looking at his credibility with wickets per match or average is futile. 

 

Even across the world, if you see most pace bowling all rounders fail to sustain the performance after 60 tests. Only two in the history have managed to play 100 tests or more- Kapil (134 tests) and Botham(103). Guys like Cairns or Flintoff couldn't sustain the performance longer than 60-70 tests. Imran took breaks in latter part of his career and became batting A/R more. Even Stokes in last 20 odd tests has become a part timer with bowl, this guy was a match winner with bowl in his first 60 tests.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Majestic

[Chakdephatte]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Suryansh Shedge

 

Heard he was with NCA already. I think It was Kushan Sarkar or K. Srinivas who reported this. The 'sources'.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Chakdephatte

[rkt.india]

19 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Heard he was with NCA. I think It was Kushan Sarkar or K. Srinivas who reported this. They seem to know every insider detail.

I know about him for last two years.

[rkt.india]

23 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Pace bowling all rounders are rare in India. It is even more harder for a pace bowling A/R to sustain his fitness and form in India.

 

That's why Kapil Dev is an ATG cricketer and looking at his credibility with wickets per match or average is futile. 

 

Even across the world, if you see most pace bowling all rounders fail to sustain the performance after 60 tests. Only two in the history have managed to play 100 tests or more- Kapil (134 tests) and Botham(103). Guys like Cairns or Flintoff couldn't sustain the performance longer than 60-70 tests. Imran took breaks in latter part of his career and became batting A/R more. Even Stokes in last 20 odd tests has become a part timer with bowl, this guy was a match winner with bowl in his first 60 tests.

Kapil most of his career bowled with lesser effort than he should have just to prolong his career, probably after mid 80s when he had a knee injury.    

[bowl_out]

Medium pace bowlers who can bat -

 

Tests - Thakur

ODI - Hardik, Vijay Shankar

T20 - Hardik, Dube

T10  - Chahar

 

It would be stupid to bring back Hardik to Tests. Given his injury history, he should just play ODIs and captain the T20 side.

 

 

[Majestic]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil most of his career bowled with lesser effort than he should have just to prolong his career, probably after mid 80s when he had a knee injury.    

Because he played like freaking 62 tests in first 5 years itslef. That's what Shami has played in 10 years. It makes sense to prolong your career if you are a bowling A/R because there was lack of quality of pace/seam bowlers let alone seam bowling A/R in India.

 

Every single seam/pace bowling all rounder should do that. Imran had the luxury of strong attack so he often didn't bowled as well and even took breaks from series. 

 

No pace/seam bowling A/R in the history has managed the same level of performance in the second half as they have done in first half. This is why guys like Cairns, Flintoff faded away after 60-70 tests, Imran played 85 tests in two decades so one can understand how much breaks he took and often didn't even bowled because he had Wasim and Waqar. Botham himself was mediocre in second half. Even Stokes and Kallis are bowling lesser in second half.

 

He was clearly a level ahead of Cairns and Flintoff as a bowler and India's best pace/seam bowler till Boom came.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

Medium pace bowlers who can bat -

 

Tests - Thakur

ODI - Hardik, Vijay Shankar

T20 - Hardik, Dube

T10  - Chahar

 

It would be stupid to bring back Hardik to Tests. Given his injury history, he should just play ODIs and captain the T20 side.

 

 

Pandya is not even half as good as Irfan Pathan. I am talking about current Irfan pathan. Pathan has better chance of playing a full test compared to Pandya.

[zen]

26 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil most of his career bowled with lesser effort than he should have just to prolong his career, probably after mid 80s when he had a knee injury.    

 

Yeah, and Kapil mostly performed at "home", averages below:

 

Home

Batting avg 37

Bowling avg 26

Avg diff 11

 

Away

Batting avg 26

Bowling avg 33

Avg diff -7

 

 

In the 1978-84 period (where he was supposed to be "sharp"): 

 

Home

Batting avg 34

Bowling avg 25

Avg diff 9

 

Away

Batting avg 25

Bowling avg 34

Avg diff -9

 

You expect your pace AR to do well away (difficult to even rate a player as a major AR based on performances mostly at home). 

 

 

PS Imran for reference 

 

Home

Batting avg 45

Bowling avg 19

Avg diff 26

 

Away

Batting avg 34 (that is Kapil's bowling avg away and batting avg at home)

Bowling avg 26 (that is Kapil's batting avg away and bowling avg at home)

Avg diff 8 (opposite of Kapil ) 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by zen

[Lone Wolf]

Raj Bawa is closest to a Ben Stokes we will get for some time. 

 

If you are looking at Shardul or Chahar level guys who can whack the ball...  Maybe Hangargekar or Yudhvir Singh (untested both) 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lone Wolf said:

Raj Bawa is closest to a Ben Stokes we will get for some time. 

 

If you are looking at Shardul or Chahar level guys who can whack the ball...  Maybe Hangargekar or Yudhvir Singh (untested both) 

 

Yea Shardul is not a traditional all rounder. He is not going ot make 100s. Quick 50/60. 

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Because he played like freaking 62 tests in first 5 years itslef. That's what Shami has played in 10 years. It makes sense to prolong your career if you are a bowling A/R because there was lack of quality of pace/seam bowlers let alone seam bowling A/R in India.

 

Every single seam/pace bowling all rounder should do that. Imran had the luxury of strong attack so he often didn't bowled as well and even took breaks from series. 

 

No pace/seam bowling A/R in the history has managed the same level of performance in the second half as they have done in first half. This is why guys like Cairns, Flintoff faded away after 60-70 tests, Imran played 85 tests in two decades so one can understand how much breaks he took and often didn't even bowled because he had Wasim and Waqar. Botham himself was mediocre in second half. Even Stokes and Kallis are bowling lesser in second half.

 

He was clearly a level ahead of Cairns and Flintoff as a bowler and India's best pace/seam bowler till Boom came.

Dont think he was anywhere close to Flintoff as a bowler. Flintoff was such a scary bowler. Ask any good batsman who would he not want to face between Flintoff or Kapil, answer would mostly be Flintoff. 

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Dont think he was anywhere close to Flintoff as a bowler. Flintoff was such a scary bowler. Ask any good batsman who would he not want to face between Flintoff or Kapil, answer would mostly be Flintoff. 

Flintoff is a highly overrated bowler who had a short peak of 1.5-2 years and outside that was downright mediocre. Cairns was a better bowler than him.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Majestic

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil most of his career bowled with lesser effort than he should have just to prolong his career, probably after mid 80s when he had a knee injury.    

What was he supposed to do?He has no support, he could not all out and knock himself out.

 

He was still bowling most number of over in India too, India had no good spinners also in mid 80s.

 

After his knee injury he was never the same bowler, If he had a Wasim Akram like Imran did  from 1985, it would have been a different story.

 

He would have worked more on his batting and he would have walked in 1980s Indian team on his batting alone.

Edited June 20, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Dont think he was anywhere close to Flintoff as a bowler. Flintoff was such a scary bowler. Ask any good batsman who would he not want to face between Flintoff or Kapil, answer would mostly be Flintoff. 

That is bollocks. Flintoff  had a few good series. Outside that he was mediocre.  It helped Flintoff to have bowlers like Hoggard, Simon Jones, Harmsion to bowl alongside him. When Flintoff is the only bowler to share the workload he would not have had  a 79 test career.

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Dont think he was anywhere close to Flintoff as a bowler. Flintoff was such a scary bowler. Ask any good batsman who would he not want to face between Flintoff or Kapil, answer would mostly be Flintoff. 

Also, FYI,

 

Flintoff 79 test, 226 wkt

Kapil after 62 tests, 247 wkts playing on subcontinent wickets while Freedie had the luxury of bowling with Duke in England for half of the games.