The 4 basic qualities needed to be a top pacer .... and tracking Indian pacers who have them now

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The only thing left is niggling out Siraj and bringing in Bhuvi or Chahar. 

 

Then the trundlerization of the attack would be complete ..... And we will see belly jiggling dance from Fatman captain and polite dance from " Good " boy " " Dravid to display their extreme pleasure. 

all trundler attack, amazing stuff. reminds me of 70s and 80s, not even 90s because we had srinath (even wassan and early-career kuruvilla was faster than some of current  trundlers)

Edited July 20, 2023 by Vijy

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I am talking about whether a pacer can display all 4 qualities in the IPL.  Harshit and Mohsin have. 

 

Umran has displayed just 1.5 qualities .... abiity to hurry batsmen.  And occasionally surprise batters with bounce but that is not a regular feature. 

Bowling in good areas consistently with good pace is a skill very few bowlers in history of the game have, you are saying with certaintity about some bowlers who have not even made their international debut.

 

All I can say is hope you are right for Indian cricket sake. I don't see any talent like Ishant or Shami  in them yet forget Bumrah for now.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

all trundler attack, amazing stuff. reminds me of 70s and 80s, not even 90s because we had srinath (even wassan was faster than some of trundlers)

 

Srinath, Ankola, Wassan and Kuruvilla could have formed a fiery attack in the early and mid 1990s. 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Srinath, Ankola, Wassan and Kuruvilla could have formed a fiery attack in the early and mid 1990s. 

don't rate ankola much, but I agree with other 3. 4th pacer could be prasad in select conditions (eng, SA, NZ) and some other player in Aus

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Bowling in good areas consistently with good pace is a skill very few bowlers in history of the game have, you are saying with certaintity about some bowlers who have not even made their international debut.

 

All I can say is hope you are right for Indian cricket sake. I don't see any talent like Ishant or Shami  in them yet forget Bumrah for now.

 

I am not talking about extreme accuracy and high pace combo of a Bumrah .... but good enough accuracy at good enough pace.  That is not that uncommon. 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I am not talking about extreme accuracy and high pace combo of a Bumrah .... but good enough accuracy at good enough pace.  That is not that uncommon. 

Do you call Siraj having accuracy with his 31 avg and 3.3 RPO.

 

You need to have under 3  RPO to be accurate in test cricket. Accuracy builds pressure and pressure creates chances. Siraj is Indian version of Starc who can bowl some jaffas but cannot be consistent.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Do you call Siraj having accuracy with his 31 avg and 3.3 RPO.

 

You need to have under 3  RPO to be accurate in test cricket. Accuracy builds pressure and pressure creates chances. Siraj is Indian version of Starc who can bowl some jaffas but cannot be consistent.

avg run rates are often >3.5 RPO, so 3.3 is not bad. bigger issue with siraj is consistency in wicket taking

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Do you call Siraj having accuracy with his 31 avg and 3.3 RPO.

 

You need to have under 3  RPO to be accurate in test cricket. Accuracy builds pressure and pressure creates chances. Siraj is Indian version of Starc who can bowl some jaffas but cannot be consistent.

 

 

Bowling in good areas is different for aggressive and defensive bowlers. Siraj is an aggressive bowler.

 

His problem is that he is not picking enough wickets for his bowling style, and that is the worry. 

[putrevus]

24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bowling in good areas is different for aggressive and defensive bowlers. Siraj is an aggressive bowler.

 

His problem is that he is not picking enough wickets for his bowling style, and that is the worry. 

He will not pickup wickets in future also as he releases all pressure in the name of aggression.He is not good enough otherwise to consistently get people out with good deliveries.

 

It is going to get worse for him if he does not change his approach.

Edited July 20, 2023 by putrevus

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He will not pickup wickets in future also as he releases all pressure in the name of aggression.He is not good enough otherwise to consistently get people out with good deliveries.

 

It is going to get worse for him if he does not change his approach.

 

 

There will always be some subjectivity involved in the assessment of these 4 factors by different people. 

 

So, there is bound to be some difference in opinion about which personnel will qualify. We must both accept this fact. 

 

If we can find a couple of pacers better than Siraj, I am all for choosing them in his place. 

 

Problem is that we are getting Mukesh, Kumar and Unadkat ... and Siraj looks much better in comparison. 

[AKane]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

The only thing left is niggling out Siraj and bringing in Bhuvi or Chahar. 

 

Then the trundlerization of the attack would be complete ..... And we will see belly jiggling dance from Fatman captain and polite dance from " Good " boy " " Dravid to display their extreme pleasure. 

 

This disgraceful rotten West Indies team will lose to even this bowling. Then Dravid and company will be preening themselves.

 

How I wish one match with Fredericks, Richards, Kallicharan, Rowe, Lloyd against  these trundlers to wipe the smug look off of Dravid's face.

[express bowling]

Just now, AKane said:

 

This disgraceful rotten West Indies team will lose to even this bowling. Then Dravid and company will be preening themselves.

 

How I wish one match with Fredericks, Richards, Kallicharan, Rowe, Lloyd against  these trundlers to wipe the smug look off of Dravid's face.

 

Exactly !

 

These series against weak teams do more harm than good.  

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

There will always be some subjectivity involved in the assessment of these 4 factors by different people. 

 

So, there is bound to be some difference in opinion about which personnel will qualify. We must both accept this fact. 

 

If we can find a couple of pacers better than Siraj, I am all for choosing them in his place. 

 

Problem is that we are getting Mukesh, Kumar and Unadkat ... and Siraj looks much better in comparison. 

Selecting turndlers and reversing all the good works done by Kohli and Shastri is completely on the two biggest banes on Indian cricket Dravid and Rohit.They have to be kicked out of the team ASAP.

 

 

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Selecting turndlers and reversing all the good works done by Kohli and Shastri is completely on the two biggest banes on Indian cricket Dravid and Rohit.They have to be kicked out of the team ASAP.

 

 

 

 

Yes, these 2 are really bad.

[Majestic]

Hangrekar, Mohsin and Prasidh have no clue on what length needs to be bowled overseas. That comes with experience and they have none there.

 

Bumrah remains injured most of the times. Siraj  hit and miss. Some days he can really take apart the batting and some days he can take apart himself from bowling as well.

 

We don't have most of the boxes ticked to succeed in SENA conditions. Moreover, we don't have a lot of young batsman whom we can keep hope that they will succeed overseas. The worst part is that our best bet for no.5 is Rahane for SA tour and expectation from him is also scores of 47, 5 and 11, 79.

 

[tweaker]

Prasidh,Mohsin,Sen,Tyagi should play a full.Ranji season before being considered for team India.

 

They were all selected but got injured,Mohsin was on the verge of selection ,but he is still injured.

Selectors can't do anything if these fast bowlers got injured at the same time.

[express bowling]

39 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Hangrekar, Mohsin and Prasidh have no clue on what length needs to be bowled overseas. That comes with experience and they have none there.

 

Players can get experience only if they get to play. 

 

39 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Bumrah remains injured most of the times.

 

 

Before this current injury spanning close to a year, Bumrah had just ONE significant injury in 6.5 years.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

37 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Hangrekar, Mohsin and Prasidh have no clue on what length needs to be bowled overseas. That comes with experience and they have none there.

 

Bumrah remains injured most of the times. Siraj  hit and miss. Some days he can really take apart the batting and some days he can take apart himself from bowling as well.

 

We don't have most of the boxes ticked to succeed in SENA conditions. Moreover, we don't have a lot of young batsman whom we can keep hope that they will succeed overseas. The worst part is that our best bet for no.5 is Rahane for SA tour and expectation from him is also scores of 47, 5 and 11, 79.

 

We should have tried them in this series vs WI. But selectors went with Mookesh and Unadkut instead...Saini was playing as a token quick pacer will go home with 0 experience.

 

Anyway Prasidh, Mohsin, Rana and Hangargekar are hit the deck bowlers and such pacers enjoy success at the grounds of SA and Australia....so even their natural back of length deliveries will be an asset there. Combine them with the pace of Bumrah and movement of Siraj then we have a potent attack at our hand. 

[Vijy]

55 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Hangrekar, Mohsin and Prasidh have no clue on what length needs to be bowled overseas. That comes with experience and they have none there.

 

Bumrah remains injured most of the times. Siraj  hit and miss. Some days he can really take apart the batting and some days he can take apart himself from bowling as well.

 

We don't have most of the boxes ticked to succeed in SENA conditions. Moreover, we don't have a lot of young batsman whom we can keep hope that they will succeed overseas. The worst part is that our best bet for no.5 is Rahane for SA tour and expectation from him is also scores of 47, 5 and 11, 79.

 

how would anyone know given that most of the younger players have gotten exactly zero chances?

[Lord]

the biggest ability for Test pacer is to bowl long spells without reducing pace or to up the pace when needed. Also to bowl dry spells is important in this era