India 15 member squad for the World Cup announced

[Nikhil_cric]

55 minutes ago, Sooda said:

 

 

Agree to an extent... but with Bumrah it is that action and run up that makes him so deceptive and effective right? By moulding him into something "orthodox" he would lose a lot of his potency no?

If anything over coaching can be a problem too, we lose the "mavericks" that way. Why are England and Aussies able to produce more than one of these power hitters with a range of shots, when we do not really. SKY aside, Our older top batsmen cant or dont reverse sweep or scoop. Maybe too focussed on technique and correctness.

Over coaching is an issue generally and especially with batting. The idea that somehow defense should be taught first  is bogus.

 

And not all batsmen should be classically side on with a narrow stance etc. 

 

But with respect to bowling , it's important in the sense that bowlers need to get their mechanics drilled in .  And it usually starts with the run up. 

 

For athletes who are more on the hip dominant side of the spectrum,  they need to accelerate towards the crease and use that momentum to bowl fast. 

 

My reading of it is that if the run up acceleration and length are not ideal, bowlers tend to look for that extra range of motion  and hence you get issues of lateral flexion and counter rotation in the action. 

 

The unorthodoxy comes from a very flexible wrist, hyperextending elbow and naturally fast arm.  

 

Those won't be affected by sorting out a bowler's running mechanics imho.

 

Even after his latest comeback, he said was looking to lengthen his run up which he previously said he was not comfortable with .

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Not true at all. Pat Cummins got his current action drilled in till he was almost 24.  Lee started remodelling his action at the age of 24 and had a lot of success in int'l cricket after that.

 

Tyagi has time. Pat Cummins made his debut at 18 and barely played any cricket (even domestic) until he was 24.  His workloads were very carefully managed and then when he had roted that action to muscle memory, he started playing int'l cricket regularly.

 

Mind you, there will always be limits . He had the ability to clock upto 155 kph but he would not have been able to sustain it so he settled on being a 140's bowler and having a career instead of killing himself by trying to bowl too quick or too much.

 

We don't know what speeds Nagarkoti, Tyagi etc. can bowl sustainably even with the best-grooved actions and management. Bowling high intensity and high volume is impossible for most and even the most durable quicks struggle to do that over a period of time.

 

Bhuvaneshwar Kumar comes to mind. He had a fairly correct action and had the ability to clock 146 kph but sustaining even those speeds were hard for that frame of his and he kept breaking down every time he strived for that 140+ pace consistently.

 

He has bowled over 25,000 balls over FC + List A + T20 cricket. In a T20 World Cup year, he ended up playing 46 T20's  and he couldn't even bowl 80 mph properly by the end.    

 

If the TM were hell bent on playing him, a 32 year old Bhuvi who was well-managed and bowling in his optimum pace of 133-138 kph would have been of much more value . 

 

Similar issues with Arshdeep playing an entire IPL and then 21 odd T20is that year.  

 

All of these bowlers should be prepped to be at their best for ICC tournaments if they ae definitely playing.

 

 

Arshdeep & Bhuvi were never out on out fast bowlers...if you remember on his debut game vs Pakistan, Bhuvi was bowling at 127-130k and was swinging the ball..he only upped his pace when his lack of speed was causing him a liability in subcontinent test matches.

 

Same for Arsh who is also a 127-132 pacer like Bhuvi...he can clock 140's but he can't sustain his pace.

 

In comparison, Tyagi was a 138-145 pacer even in his U19 days where he was playing back to back matches in WC. With time..he was bowling at the same pace in IPL 2020 & 2021..it's only from 2022 IPL his pace went up from 138-145 to 142-152 despite getting injured.

 

I think it's just a matter of time, his action is smooth and repeatable with not major issues. Young quicks try to bowl faster and it's natural to get injured as the body is still under development.

This year he has been fit so far...that's a positive sign. Let him play whatever comes to his path, he seems like an intelligent and confident guy so will learn quickly when to control his pace.

[singhvivek141]

The more I see it, the more I believe that TM and selectors missed a trick by replacing Axar with Ashwin or Sundar.

 

Thinking about it...on a pitch which has more turn  (Lucknow, Chennai). We could have played Jadeja, Ashwin/Sundar, Kuldeep as our 7-9 while Bumrah, Shami/Siraj and Pandya will play as quicks.

 

On a pace friendly wicket like Dharamshala, Mumbai, Kolkata..we can actually play both Jadeja & Ashwin/Sundar at no 7-8, while 9-11 can be given to our 3 genuine quicks plus Pandya as 4th seamer

 

As Axar & Jaddu can't play together..we won't gain anything by keeping Axar in squad, this also means that we have to keep on playing Thakur even if we dotn want to because our top order is brittle.

 

With the above exchange, we can play Shardul specifically against weaker teams so that we can give rest to Bumrah in between.

 

Not sure, but can Dravid or Rohit take some call before 28th and withdraw Axar for Ashwin/Sundar ?...would be great if it happens as it can plug bit more holes.

Edited September 8, 2023 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

The more I see it, the more I believe that TM and selectors missed a trick by replacing Axar with Ashwin or Sundar.

 

Thinking about it...on a pitch which has more turn  (Lucknow, Chennai). We could have played Jadeja, Ashwin/Sundar, Kuldeep as our 7-9 while Bumrah, Shami/Siraj and Pandya will play as quicks.

 

On a pace friendly wicket like Dharamshala, Mumbai, Kolkata..we can actually play both Jadeja & Ashwin/Sundar at no 7-8, while 9-11 can be given to our 3 genuine quicks plus Pandya as 4th seamer

 

As Axar & Jaddu can't play together..we won't gain anything by keeping Axar in squad, this also means that we have to keep on playing Thakur even if we dotn want to because our top order is brittle.

 

With the above exchange, we can play Shardul specifically against weaker teams so that we can give rest to Bumrah in between.

 

Not sure, but can Dravid or Rohit take some call before 28th and withdraw Axar for Ashwin/Sundar ?...would be great if it happens as it can plug bit more holes.

Why did guy like Sundar who was playing List A and FC cricket unable to to improve his bowling or batting skills.Why are these guys not making an effort play up the order as Ravi Shastri said Sundar needs to do for a season.

 

Is TNCA stopping him for playing as top order batsman.IMO this was a perfect time for Sundar to establish himself as a top order batsman who can be handy with the ball.

 

Can Tilak verma be that offspinning option instead of Sundar or Ashwin.He can hit sixes and score fast.How good is his bowling?

Edited September 8, 2023 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

The more I see it, the more I believe that TM and selectors missed a trick by replacing Axar with Ashwin or Sundar.

 

Thinking about it...on a pitch which has more turn  (Lucknow, Chennai). We could have played Jadeja, Ashwin/Sundar, Kuldeep as our 7-9 while Bumrah, Shami/Siraj and Pandya will play as quicks.

 

On a pace friendly wicket like Dharamshala, Mumbai, Kolkata..we can actually play both Jadeja & Ashwin/Sundar at no 7-8, while 9-11 can be given to our 3 genuine quicks plus Pandya as 4th seamer

 

As Axar & Jaddu can't play together..we won't gain anything by keeping Axar in squad, this also means that we have to keep on playing Thakur even if we dotn want to because our top order is brittle.

 

With the above exchange, we can play Shardul specifically against weaker teams so that we can give rest to Bumrah in between.

 

Not sure, but can Dravid or Rohit take some call before 28th and withdraw Axar for Ashwin/Sundar ?...would be great if it happens as it can plug bit more holes.

Axar is the Jadeja replacement who is being kept around for when that day eventually rolls around. We drew the short straw in guys like R chahar not being upto it and Sundar not being fit enough which would have solved the issue of variety, depth and specific roles.

[singhvivek141]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Why did guy like Sundar who was playing List A and FC cricket unable to to improve his bowling or batting skills.Why are these guys not making an effort play up the order as Ravi Shastri said Sundar needs to do for a season.

 

Is TNCA stopping him for playing as top order batsman.IMO this was a perfect time for Sundar to establish himself as a top order batsman who can be handy with the ball.

 

Can Tilak verma be that offspinning option instead of Sundar or Ashwin.He can hit sixes and score fast.How good is his bowling?

Tilak is good enough as a 6th bowler...he bowls with reasonable control. Kinda like Hanuma Vihari you can say. We can easily get 4-6 overs from him in ODI...he is better than Jaiswal as your 6th bowler( Jaiswal is a leggie so it's tough for him to control the line as he is a part timer).

 

I think we shouldn't try to turn Sundar as a top order batter. There is already a traffic jam at the top and then we have even likes of Abhishek Sharma as well. Sundar will have a big role to play once Ashwin retires and Jaddu also won't play white ball much after this WC, that gives Sundar and Axar a chance to lead as our spinning allrounders post 2023 WC. I just want Sundar to stay fit, he will forsure figure out a way to manage the batting at 6/7 just like Ashwin.

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Axar is the Jadeja replacement who is being kept around for when that day eventually rolls around. We drew the short straw in guys like R chahar not being upto it and Sundar not being fit enough which would have solved the issue of variety, depth and specific roles.

R Chahar & Bishnoi both have really worked on their batting. It's just that as a leggie Kuldeep is better so he jumps ahead.

 

Yeah, I know Sundar's fitness propelled the decision against him as Axar has always been around the TM. But coming to WC, I think TM should have been a bit more adventurous instead of being conservative and orthodox.

[rollingstoned]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

R Chahar & Bishnoi both have really worked on their batting. It's just that as a leggie Kuldeep is better so he jumps ahead.

 

Yeah, I know Sundar's fitness propelled the decision against him as Axar has always been around the TM. But coming to WC, I think TM should have been a bit more adventurous instead of being conservative and orthodox.

What's most regrettable is Kuldeep not trying to work on his batting when he seems to have the talent for it. He can hang around but you need a little bit more in whiteball cricket nowadays. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

24 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Why did guy like Sundar who was playing List A and FC cricket unable to to improve his bowling or batting skills.Why are these guys not making an effort play up the order as Ravi Shastri said Sundar needs to do for a season.

In his particular case, injuries and illness have set him back more than expected. Hope he can make it back; IMO, he is a test batting talent and T20 bowling talent. 

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

What's most regrettable is Kuldeep not trying to work on his batting when he seems to have the talent for it. He can hang around but you need a little bit more in whiteball cricket nowadays. 

He actually has regressed, earlier he used to even attempt some shots, now he just tries to dab and block. He also has a domestic hundred and he once won a match for India with the bat (alongside Chahal).

 

Anyway, I don't see him as a white ball regular. He should focus on red ball now as Ashwin will retire soon, white ball can be managed well by likes of Sundar, Bishnoi, R Chahar & Axar.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

What's most regrettable is Kuldeep not trying to work on his batting when he seems to have the talent for it. He can hang around but you need a little bit more in whiteball cricket nowadays. 

Kuldeep is like a inferior version of Bhuvi .He cannot use any long handle.He can hang around and hold one end on his best day.

[Number]

https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/cricket/breaking-sanju-samson-released-from-team-india-asia-cup-squad-after-kl-rahul-return-article-103515551

 

Sanju released as travelling resverve after KL fit. #JusticeForSanju.

[Adamant]

3 minutes ago, Number said:

https://www.timesnownews.com/sports/cricket/breaking-sanju-samson-released-from-team-india-asia-cup-squad-after-kl-rahul-return-article-103515551

 

Sanju released as travelling resverve after KL fit. #JusticeForSanju.

Court mai PIL laga do ek.

#JusticeForSanju

[raki05]

Who is backing kela this much……. He was not even backed when he was greatest of his form during 2018 , i would take highly inconsistent samson in place if consistent and meek kela any day.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Who is backing kela this much……. He was not even backed when he was greatest of his form during 2018 , i would take highly inconsistent samson in place if consistent and meek kela any day.

He has become a brand now and getting lot of contracts & sponsorship.

Plus post his marriage to one of the powerful Bollywood Businessman's daughter has also play a big role in his backing.

Even our coach saheb is his fan.

Edited September 8, 2023 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Who is backing kela this much……. He was not even backed when he was greatest of his form during 2018 , i would take highly inconsistent samson in place if consistent and meek kela any day.

That is what I want to know, why does this BOZO get so much backing.It is not on his talent. He has played for nearly a decade so we know he stinks in all formats.

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

He has become a brand now and getting lot of contracts & sponsorship.

Plus post his marriage to one of the powerful Bollywood Businessman's daughter has also play a big role in his backing.

Even our coach saheb is his fan.

Which is brand is associating themselves with this bozo.What has he done which is so great that Brand names are after him.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Which is brand is associating themselves with this bozo.What has he done which is so great that Brand names are after him.

There is Boat, one French apparel brand which had both him and Athiya..and one more clothing brand which I don't recall now.

Sunil Shetty will now use him as a model for his business as well. 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

There is Boat, one French apparel brand which had both him and Athiya..and one more clothing brand which I don't recall now.

Sunil Shetty will now use him as a model for his business as well. 

I feel Rahul Dravid is behind all this nonsense.

 

He kept opening with KL Rahul even in t20 world cup even after his repeated failures. Predictably this bozo  scored runs against Zimbabwe only to fail in crunch match against England.

 

Any sane move would have drop this bozo and get another player.

 

I can gurantee if this bozo plays in world cup and India needs runs from him he will flop again as usual. Along with DK this guy is weakest mentally.

[rollingstoned]

48 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Which is brand is associating themselves with this bozo.What has he done which is so great that Brand names are after him.

 

43 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

There is Boat, one French apparel brand which had both him and Athiya..and one more clothing brand which I don't recall now.

Sunil Shetty will now use him as a model for his business as well. 

https://youtu.be/vDoY54czc1o?si=WP4_SYc9BYkOnYQ4