In 2023, India has 3 pacers bowling 150 kph+ .... Mayank Yadav, Kartik Tyagi and Umran Malik

[express bowling]

Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

2015 ODI series between Australia and England in England I believe it was. 

 

Could be a glitch.

 

 

Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

Between 2017-2021 , Cummins bowled quite a few in the 145-150 range in the odd spell. 

 

Recently, he's not hit that often 

 

More like odd spells at 140 k to 148 k/ 150 k.

[Nikhil_cric]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Could be a glitch.

 

 

 

More like odd spells at 140 k to 148 k/ 150 k.

That was no glitch. Cummins could hit those speeds . Ive seen him hit 150 + on more than one occasion back then.

He had to rein it in and bowl within himself, relatively , or he wouldn't have had the career he has had until now 

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

2015 ODI series between Australia and England in England I believe it was. 

 

Between 2017-2021 , Cummins bowled quite a few in the 145-150 range in the odd spell. 

 

Recently, he's not hit that often 

I only remember his reaching 152, and the articles I found also confirm this speed.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I only remember his reaching 152, and the articles I found also confirm this speed.

 

My impression is the same as yours. 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

My impression is the same as yours. 

Yes he was touching 150 kmph and was 145+kmph bowler , got injured and his speeds got reduced.

 

And with time he is hardly touching 145 kmph, when bowling full throttle he still can go as 145 kmph, bt not his regular speeds.

 

Saw some video where Tait was explaining why bowlers are not going express these days, he said there is a believe that these new Kookaburra balls swings/seams at 140-145 kmph.

 

Also this is the first time that Aus does not have express bowlers in their back-ups-Meredith was not what they thought, looks like Lance Moris is also 145 kmph (these were his highest speeds in BBL).

 

So Aus bowlers for longevity have been operating at lower pace.  Looks like this is for the first time Aus is playing WC without an express bowler , till 2019 Strack was 145+ kmph  

  

 

 

[DeepSpace]

Paaxtaan has better phasstt bawlers!!!

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, DeepSpace said:

Paaxtaan has better phasstt bawlers!!!

phaast for 2 overs, and then they get injured or huff and puff

[Nikhil_cric]

10 hours ago, Vijy said:

I only remember his reaching 152, and the articles I found also confirm this speed.

@express bowling

 

Pat Cummins to Eoin Morgan 3rd ODI of 2015 series ,  The delivery I am talking about is 15.3. He hits 96mph 

 

You can check the Cricinfo commentary . It's mentioned there. I saw it live on broadcast as well.

 

Anyway, I'm talking about average speeds .

 

Cummins at the time was averaging 90 mph or so. 

 

 

He was still a work in progress back then . When he came back in 2017. He was bowling with a much more efficient action and reining in his pace and bowling with a lot of control instead of going flat out .

 

He couldn't have sustained that 2015 level of pace 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

So Aus bowlers for longevity have been operating at lower pace.  Looks like this is for the first time Aus is playing WC without an express bowler , till 2019 Strack was 145+ kmph  

 

I might be wrong, but they are too much dependent on the trio of Starc, Hazelwood & Cummins across formats...I dont recall any other pacer who is playing consistently for them in any format (Sean Abott, Nathan Ellis maybe to some extend). This trio of quicks play every format when 2 of them can't even bowl yorkers in death.

 

When you don't develop the bench strength it's bound to happen. Starc is old & looking down on energy now and he isnt getting any support from Cummins or Hazelwood from other end.

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, DeepSpace said:

Paaxtaan has better phasstt bawlers!!!

2 over Trundler Shaheen

Naseem wide ball Shah

Brainless Rauf

Useless Hassan

Mediocre Wasim

 

Aur koi bach gya ?

[express bowling]

34 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

@express bowling

 

Pat Cummins to Eoin Morgan 3rd ODI of 2015 series ,  The delivery I am talking about is 15.3. He hits 96mph 

 

You can check the Cricinfo commentary . It's mentioned there. I saw it live on broadcast as well.

 

Anyway, I'm talking about average speeds .

 

Cummins at the time was averaging 90 mph or so. 

 

 

He was still a work in progress back then . When he came back in 2017. He was bowling with a much more efficient action and reining in his pace and bowling with a lot of control instead of going flat out .

 

He couldn't have sustained that 2015 level of pace 

 

 

 

 

 

Just 1 match maybe.

 

Generally, Cummins was generally 140 k to 150 k when he started as a rookie and became 135 k to 145 k / 147 k after he modified his action. 

 

Now he is more 132 k to 142 k / 145 k.

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Just 1 match maybe.

 

Generally, Cummins was generally 140 k to 150 k when he started as a rookie and became 135 k to 145 k / 147 k after he modified his action. 

 

Now he is more 132 k to 142 k / 145 k.

I watched that entire series and I've seen a fair bit of what he was bowling in their domestics and he was easily in the 145-150 range at the time . 

 

As I've already shown, he was clearly capable of hitting 154/155 kph. 

 

Im not sure where you are getting the 135 to 145.

 

But even for the 1st 2 -3 years after his comeback , Cummins was around 140.xx average speed even in Tests . There was a Cricviz graphic from that time that I'll try to find 

 

He was notably slower than only Starc and his pace was on par with Shannon Gabriel and early Bumrah. 

 

He was at least the 3rd quickest pacer in Tests from 2017-2020 and genuinely quick . 

 

It's only recently his speeds have dropped.

[MK55]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Just 1 match maybe.

 

Generally, Cummins was generally 140 k to 150 k when he started as a rookie and became 135 k to 145 k / 147 k after he modified his action. 

 

Now he is more 132 k to 142 k / 145 k.

How is Cummins 132k to 142k. You are literally quoting the lowest speed as the lower bound. if you choose the middle percentile, that doesn’t make sense. 
 

Agree he has slowed down after his action change. He’s probably 137k to 143k right now. And does bowl a few at 145k in almost every batch albeit just a handful. Some days 1-2 at 147 odd. I expect him to bowl a bit quicker at the business end. 
 

In tests yeah , probably a bit lower. I’d say 135-144k for the middle 50 percentile bucket right now. So close ish over there. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by MK55

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I watched that entire series and I've seen a fair bit of what he was bowling in their domestics and he was easily in the 145-150 range at the time . 

 

I haven't seen any pacer bowl.145 to 150 ever.

 

There are invariably lots of 140 to 144 k balls too, when the quicker balls are 145 to 150. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

As I've already shown, he was clearly capable of hitting 154/155 kph. 

 

Very rare case.

 

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

Im not sure where you are getting the 135 to 145.

 

From 2018 to 2021, the heydays of Pat Cummins, he was mostly 135 to 145 k with odd spells at 138 to 148 / 150.

 

As per a Cricviz article, In the year 2018, Cummins's average speed in test matches was 138.4 k.

 

His quicker years were till 2017. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

But even for the 1st 2 -3 years after his comeback , Cummins was around 140.xx average speed even in Tests . There was a Cricviz graphic from that time that I'll try to find 

 

 

Maybe in 2017, when be was bowling  138 k to 148 k / 150 k spells as default. 

 

From 2018, it was more like 138.x k 

 

 

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

He was notably slower than only Starc and his pace was on par with Shannon Gabriel and early Bumrah. 

 

He was at least the 3rd quickest pacer in Tests from 2017-2020 and genuinely quick . 

 

It's only recently his speeds have dropped.

 

 

135 to 145 k / 147 k as default speeds is still very quick in tests. 

 

In 2018, the 7 Fastest pacers In tests as per Cricviz were

 

1. Starc.  ..  141.6 k  Average speeds

2. Gabriel .. 140.x k

3. Bumrah .. 139.6 k 

4. Cummins .. 138.x k

5. Rabada .. 138.x k

6. Kumara .. 138.x k

7. Shami .. 137.x k 

 

There were no Nortje or Wood then. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by express bowling

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, MK55 said:

How is Cummins 132k to 142k. You are literally quoting the lowest speed as the lower bound. if you choose the middle percentile, that doesn’t make sense. 
 

 

 

I didn't say 132 k to 142 k ... But 132 k to 142 k / 145 k.

 

The difference is that, the 2nd means his slower spells are 132 to to 142 k and he goes up to 145 k in some spells.  Anything more than that is very rare these days,  Like he bowled 2 deliveries at 146 k and 1 delivery at 147 k in one of the world cup matches. But saw 2 matches where he did not cross 142 k.

 

5 hours ago, MK55 said:

Agree he has slowed down after his action change. He’s probably 137k to 143k right now. And does bowl a few at 145k in almost every batch albeit just a handful.

 

There are about 30% of deliveries in the 132 to 136 k range too in most matches. And he does not cross 144 k in every match 

 

 

5 hours ago, MK55 said:

 

Some days 1-2 at 147 odd. I expect him to bowl a bit quicker at the business end. 
 

 

I expect Cummins to go flat out and bowl 135 k to 147 k in the KO matches, he still has the ability.

 

 

5 hours ago, MK55 said:

In tests yeah , probably a bit lower. I’d say 135-144k for the middle 50 percentile bucket right now. So close ish over there. 

 

In the last Ashes, he rarely crossed 142 k. They said this on TV.

 

He probably wants to prevent injuries as he is the captain. 

 

[express bowling]

@Nikhil_cric

 

There is no point is discussing Cummins and his Pace in such great detail in this thread. 

 

Every bowler is different and there bodies respond differently.

 

Like Cummins started off as Express, dropped to Fast and then dropped to Fast / Fast-medium.

 

Starc was Fast-,medium in domestic cricket. The Aussies talked about this a lot.  Then became Fast after international debut and very quickly became Express and remained so for a long time and is now Fast again. He too had many injuries.

 

It's not necessary that our Express pacers will take Cummins's path as far as speeds are concerned.

 

 

[Suhaan]

I want someone playing the role of Lee in our attack with two very much bankable strike bowlers in 140+-145+ range

Lee was an ATG in my book of LOIs

Express from debut to retirement,Respect Binga

[Lord]

We should identify 140+ pacers and groom them and teach them to move it both ways.

 

That's been the major strength of our trio.

[Vijy]

31 minutes ago, Lord said:

We should identify 140+ pacers and groom them and teach them to move it both ways.

 

That's been the major strength of our trio.

we should also teach them control at high pace, as well as extracting major bounce.

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

I want someone playing the role of Lee in our attack with two very much bankable strike bowlers in 140+-145+ range

Lee was an ATG in my book of LOIs

Express from debut to retirement,Respect Binga

If I talk of attitude...Tyagi is there. He really wants to bowl fast and he has really upped his pace from U-19 days in comparison to other U19 speed merchants like Mavi (who lost his pace) or Nagarkoti (almost at the same level).