Intersectionality and bizarre alliances / narratives

[ravishingravi]

I must confess to completely politically ignorant for major section of my life. In last 10-15 years and especially with advent of social media , the alliances and underlying hypocrisies have become more clear and obvious. 

 

Over the years I have asked myself how much have I changed or how much has spectrum shifted. Left has an important purpose to serve to challenge the existing heirarchies, but it's alliances and narratives I cannot not get my head around. 

 

Islamo leftist :- from an Indian context this isn't new. From Kaif azmi to majrooh sultanpuri there is a long list of Muslims who associated themselves with communism. But they were by and large non believers. Over the years this alliance has galvanized between fundamentalists and leftists. It's bizarre to say the least. If @Lannister speaks about Hindu extremism but can't speak on beheadings of Hindus it's not shocking anymore. The code is crystallized. The causes chosen. Numbers decided. Islam has the numbers and consolidation capacities that left cannot do without plus street power. Not to mention that many of leftist are hard core atheists and most Muslims by definition aren't. In modern atheism movement, I used to follow Sam Harris, Lawrence, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins would be my guiding light. But they are positively right wingers now by modern standards. And these are rationalists. Haha. 

 

Oppressor oppressed:- It's quite interesting how oppressor oppressed narrative is carefully crafted and selectively applied. For instance genocide kashmiri Hindus reduced from 10% to 0% is not genocide but palestenians whose population has gone up 10 fold is. Israel is an apartheid state with 20% Arab population with same rights while Pakistan isn't even if constitution clearly has second rated citizen treatment for non muslims. 

 

Scientists and academia :- Historically one can trace back to second world war where scientists alligned against the Nazis including the academicians. In battle of  communism vs Nazism, they had chosen their team and it made sense.  Many of them were unfairly hounded post world war. Well they have come back with vengeance and captured most  important institutions. It's hard core my team or eff off. Jonathan Hayes mentions in his book how the entire generation post Obama years has been brainwashed into this binary narrative to shake the established order. Be it race, gender, religion with no room for dialogue or reasoning. COVID was a clear demonstration of scientists and their scientific temper be it origin of virus or efficacy of vaccine. There is a brotherhood approach which works like ummah. First principle is stick to the memo. 

 

 Feminism :- Recall those good ol days when it was considered leftist to talk about women's right and freedom. Well here we are now where leftist will trounce women over trance / non binary etc because they are apparently more oppressed. And one would be positively right winger to not allow trans women in women's sports. Like wtf. Feminists are caught in a fix now. JK Rowling is a fascist to say trans women are not women. 

 

Speaking to a European woman, she was afraid of going to India with the right wing being incharge. Her sources were France 24, Le Monde. I had to ask her, if a party is asking for removal of triple talaq and the other party is opposing it, which one is right wing. If one party is asking for uniform code for all citizens and the other party is not, then which one is right wing. Ironically I had to point to her that left wing govts in her country have banned hijab. So it's all mixed up at this point. Choose your side and frame your narratives. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by ravishingravi

[Lannister]

13 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

Islamo leftist :- from an Indian context this isn't new. From Kaif azmi to majrooh sultanpuri there is a long list of Muslims who associated themselves with communism. But they were by and large non believers. Over the years this alliance has galvanized between fundamentalists and leftists. It's bizarre to say the least. If @Lannister speaks about Hindu extremism but can't speak on beheadings of Hindus it's not shocking anymore. The code is crystallized. The causes chosen. Numbers decided. Islam has the numbers and consolidation capacities that left cannot do without plus street power. Not to mention that many of leftist are hard core atheists and most Muslims by definition aren't. In modern atheism movement, I used to follow Sam Harris, Lawrence, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins would be my guiding light. But they are positively right wingers now by modern standards. And these are rationalists. Haha. 

I concur that your understanding of diverse subjects is limited. Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris regularly mock Christianity and its fundamentalists. Similar to any religious ideologue, you seek to protect your faith from criticism. We're not making a distinction between Hindus and Muslim extremists; we're stating that both belong to the same category.

[Lannister]

It's truly a spectacle when those on the right assert themselves as champions of women's rights. 

 

Well, medical experts should determine the biology of transgender individuals, and simultaneously, women should have the autonomy to decide whether to include them in their safe spaces.

[randomGuy]

2 hours ago, Lannister said:

I concur that your understanding of diverse subjects is limited. Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris regularly mock Christianity and its fundamentalists. Similar to any religious ideologue, you seek to protect your faith from criticism. We're not making a distinction between Hindus and Muslim extremists; we're stating that both belong to the same category.

Let's be honest here... Stalin ke bete aur tere jaison ki fat ti hai other religions ko criticise karne main despite other religions being in smaller numbers than Hinduism in India and so your kind will only criticize Hindu Dharma....

Edited November 12, 2023 by randomGuy

[Lannister]

4 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Let's be honest here... Stalin ke bete aur tere jaison ki fat ti hai Islam ko criticise karne main despite Islam being in smaller numbers than Hinduism in India ....I, as a so-called right winger, will support your type the day you accept and do something about your hypocrisy and about your dishonesty.

English or Kannada.

[Muloghonto]

On 11/11/2023 at 10:21 PM, Lannister said:

I concur that your understanding of diverse subjects is limited. Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris regularly mock Christianity and its fundamentalists. Similar to any religious ideologue, you seek to protect your faith from criticism. We're not making a distinction between Hindus and Muslim extremists; we're stating that both belong to the same category.

The problem with Dawkins and Harris and most of the retarded liberals is that they do the nonsensical 'all religions are equally good/bad, all religions have their fanatics,blablah' nonsense, which is a slander for ANY non abrahamic religion. at least Hitchens was honest enough to classify Islam as the WORST religion in existence, though Christians come a close second worst.

We must make a distinction between muslim and hindu extremists, until we actually have a hindu ISIS or Al Qaeda or such. Else its as retarded as comparing Hitler to someone who's killed the murderer of his own father.

 

[Trichromatic]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:38 PM, ravishingravi said:

 

 

Oppressor oppressed:- It's quite interesting how oppressor oppressed narrative is carefully crafted and selectively applied. For instance genocide kashmiri Hindus reduced from 10% to 0% is not genocide but palestenians whose population has gone up 10 fold is. Israel is an apartheid state with 20% Arab population with same rights while Pakistan isn't even if constitution clearly has second rated citizen treatment for non muslims. 

 

 

70 years back, there were 80% Arabs and 20% Jews.

Now there are 40% Arabs and 60% Jews.

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

70 years back, there were 80% Arabs and 20% Jews.

Now there are 40% Arabs and 60% Jews.

% is misleading without actual numbers. For eg, muslims in the west have significantly higher fertility rate than buddhists.  So mathematics say, that in 50 years, muslim population in ANY western country, even if equal to Buddhist population, will become a much bigger % than the Buddhists, even if the Buddhists keep growing at positive rate. 

So how can one allege genocide, if the growth rate over the years and decades is positive ? 

[Trichromatic]

26 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

% is misleading without actual numbers. For eg, muslims in the west have significantly higher fertility rate than buddhists.  So mathematics say, that in 50 years, muslim population in ANY western country, even if equal to Buddhist population, will become a much bigger % than the Buddhists, even if the Buddhists keep growing at positive rate. 

So how can one allege genocide, if the growth rate over the years and decades is positive ? 

 

I don't know about the region.

 

What's the reason for such huge decline in % of Muslims in that region?

 

Is it very high fertility rate of Jews?

 

How is Muslim population % declining in that region, when it is increasing everywhere else in the world?

[Muloghonto]

13 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

I don't know about the region.

 

What's the reason for such huge decline in % of Muslims in that region?

 

Is it very high fertility rate of Jews?

 

How is Muslim population % declining in that region, when it is increasing everywhere else in the world?

Israel automatically grants citizenship to anyone who can prove they are jewish and wants it. 

As such, more than 50% of Israel's jews are Ashkenazi jews - meaning, European jews, who've immigrated mostly in post ww2 era. 

As a % of muslim population INSIDE israel, that number has gone up from 4% to around 11% in 70 years. 

The reason why muslim population fell in % numbers is the same reason why Pakistan went from 15% hindus to like 3% Hindus in 1971: they lost Bangladesh and like Pakistan, west bank & gaza started to be counted seperately, as opposed to included inside of israel.

 

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

Israel automatically grants citizenship to anyone who can prove they are jewish and wants it. 

As such, more than 50% of Israel's jews are Ashkenazi jews - meaning, European jews, who've immigrated mostly in post ww2 era. 

As a % of muslim population INSIDE israel, that number has gone up from 4% to around 11% in 70 years. 

The reason why muslim population fell in % numbers is the same reason why Pakistan went from 15% hindus to like 3% Hindus in 1971: they lost Bangladesh and like Pakistan, west bank & gaza started to be counted seperately, as opposed to included inside of israel.

 

 

80-20 and 40-60 numbers are for that entire region, Israel and Palestine combined. So there isn't much change the the land area.

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

80-20 and 40-60 numbers are for that entire region, Israel and Palestine combined. So there isn't much change the the land area.

Then your answer is in the 50% of jews being Ashkenazi, aka European jews who immigrated. 

 

[coffee_rules]

54 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

80-20 and 40-60 numbers are for that entire region, Israel and Palestine combined. So there isn't much change the the land area.

See the number of Jews in Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Jordon, Syria, Lebanon , Iraq, Yemen? Where are they ? The answer lies in your question. 

[Muloghonto]

15 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

See the number of Jews in Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Jordon, Syria, Lebanon , Iraq, Yemen? Where are they ? The answer lies in your question. 

maine socha ki woh log sab gayab ho gaye...alieno ne abduct kar liya hoga unlogo ko shayad.

 

[Lannister]

On 11/24/2023 at 7:06 AM, Muloghonto said:

The problem with Dawkins and Harris and most of the retarded liberals is that they do the nonsensical 'all religions are equally good/bad, all religions have their fanatics,blablah' nonsense, which is a slander for ANY non abrahamic religion. at least Hitchens was honest enough to classify Islam as the WORST religion in existence, though Christians come a close second worst.

We must make a distinction between muslim and hindu extremists, until we actually have a hindu ISIS or Al Qaeda or such. Else its as retarded as comparing Hitler to someone who's killed the murderer of his own father.

 

In fact, all religions are equally bad. 

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Lannister said:

In fact, all religions are equally bad. 

Thats as retarded and wrong as saying all forms of governments are equally bad. 
Try using facts of history & logic instead of marxist ignorant angle against religion and perhaps your claim of 'all religions are equally bad' will be considered when you can show us instances of Buddhist Jihads, Hindu crusades, Jain inquisitions, Taoist ISIS, shinto Al Qaeda, etc. etc. 

[Lannister]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Thats as retarded and wrong as saying all forms of governments are equally bad. 
Try using facts of history & logic instead of marxist ignorant angle against religion and perhaps your claim of 'all religions are equally bad' will be considered when you can show us instances of Buddhist Jihads, Hindu crusades, Jain inquisitions, Taoist ISIS, shinto Al Qaeda, etc. etc. 

Because they all function within a democratic framework, except for Islam. A Hindu theocracy would be just as bad as an Islamic republic. All can veer towards extremist forms when faced with criticism.

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, Lannister said:

Because they all function within a democratic framework, except for Islam. A Hindu theocracy would be just as bad as an Islamic republic. All can veer towards extremist forms when faced with criticism.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that.

[coffee_rules]

42 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

There is no evidence to suggest that.

In b4 he cites Gauri Lankesh

[Lannister]

3 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

There is no evidence to suggest that.

There is ample evidence from medieval India. The basic tenets of all religions are fundamentally the same. Furthermore, there is the killing of Gauri by zealous Hindus.