This loss is entirely on batsmen

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Lord said:

 

You'd back him only if the game was in England. How many times has he done it in India. Its not like England haven't been in tough situations on previous tours

 

Stats tell everything if analysed properly. Everything else is bias.

Well Ben Stokes gave you a live demonstration by helping england win a test in India with the bat.

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Biggest thing was they threw their wickets as if it was a T20. If they got out normally to good balls no one would have a problem.

Yeah glad those aholes got exposed.

 

For far too long, they have been doing nothing.

[Nikhil_cric]

8 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

How does that data account for skills of batsmen?

 

It does account for the poor skill shown by our bowlers to adapt to the pitch though. I'm just pointing out that this loss is more on the lack of skill shown by our spinners in particular .   Didn't comment on batters' skills or lack thereof

[Frustrated]

1) 50% due to batsmen. 2) 50% due to Ashwin-Jaddu-Axar.     It's a crime to let Eng score 420 in the 2nd inning, with the pitch heavily assisting spinners.   

[sensible-indian]

2 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Point is not about the batting being good or bad. Getting outbowled by a debutant spinner is the main reason why we lost this match.

 

Also, thread says the loss is "entirely" on the batsmen which is clearly not the case.

 

Yes our spinners got it wrong.

 

They will get it right next game.

 

But batting kept escaping for years.

 

Vast majority of the blame goes to bat. Forget the semantics.

[Trichromatic]

Just now, Lord said:

 

You'd back him only if the game was in England. How many times has he done it in India. Its not like England haven't been in tough situations on previous tours

 

Stats tell everything if analysed properly. Everything else is bias.

 

Yes, for all talk about batting clutch he always goes missing outside England.

 

India batted 131 overs in Sydney.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-australia-2021-22-1263452/australia-vs-england-4th-test-1263465/full-scorecard

 

While when Aus saved game in Sydney in 2022, Stokes left it to Broad and Leach to fight it out.

 

When England got target 271, Stokes was caught out at boundary.

 

 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Well Ben Stokes gave you a live demonstration by helping england win a test in India with the bat.

 

He scored 6(33) in 2nd dig. How did he win it with the bat

 

Ollie Pope is what you are looking for. Did it in SA and now here too.

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

It does account for the poor skill shown by our bowlers to adapt to the pitch though. I'm just pointing out that this loss is more on the lack of skill shown by our spinners in particular .   Didn't comment on batters' skills or lack thereof

 

Bowlers took 15 wickets for 400 runs. Opposition will score some times. But batting has been below par every time.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

 

Yes our spinners got it wrong.

 

They will get it right next game.

 

But batting kept escaping for years.

 

Vast majority of the blame goes to bat. Forget the semantics.

 

Maybe spinners are aging too. We need to play Kuldeep.

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Maybe spinners are aging too. We need to play Kuldeep.

Nothing like that..imho.

 

They got a bit too cocky and never assesed the conditions and adjusted their pace.

 

And bazball reverse sweeps clicked in 2nd innings.

 

And 3rd day pitch was much much better for batting.

 

We will make a rousing comeback.

 

Its the batsmen im worried about.

[sensible-indian]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

He scored 6(33) in 2nd dig. How did he win it with the bat

 

Ollie Pope is what you are looking for. Did it in SA and now here too.

Of course pope is the man.

 

First innings...withiut Ben stokes there was no ollie pope knock.

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, Number said:

While I agree our batsmen have been very poor but from 165-5 to conceding 430 in 3rd innings isn't a good bowling performance in this one off match.

Yes bowling too played it's part, shouldn't have allowed Eng from 165/5 to 420

Shows, Ashwin and Jadeja now have old fingers,need replenishment of next crop to takeover the baton

[Nikhil_cric]

4 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

 

Yes our spinners got it wrong.

 

They will get it right next game.

 

But batting kept escaping for years.

 

Vast majority of the blame goes to bat. Forget the semantics.

These are not semantics. Bowling is disproprtionately more important in Tests as winning a Test is based on taking 20 opposition wickets - not a necessary criterion in LOI's.

 

India's batting may well be overrated but that is not the main reason for this loss.

 

Ashwin, Axar and Jadeja were outbowled by a rookie.  

[nitinbwj]

No. Both are responsible. 

Axar+Ashwin+Fraud 

79 overs - 332 runs. 

 

[nitinbwj]

Had Bumrah not picked those crucial wickets, lead would have been 350

[sensible-indian]

5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yes, for all talk about batting clutch he always goes missing outside England.

 

India batted 131 overs in Sydney.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-australia-2021-22-1263452/australia-vs-england-4th-test-1263465/full-scorecard

 

While when Aus saved game in Sydney in 2022, Stokes left it to Broad and Leach to fight it out.

 

When England got target 271, Stokes was caught out at boundary.

 

 

 

Talking about the mentality here.

 

Showed that in the first innings helping England reach a score when others were crumbling by bazballing.

 

Still scored 60 odd in the fourth innings in the game you posted.

 

He isnt perfect.

 

Should do more overseas.

 

But in a situation like today where you gotta take charge and go for the win while everyone else is getting out, you will back Stokes more than Jaddu, Ash type players.

 

If its a supporting role, I would back Jaddu, Ash type players more.

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Of course pope is the man.

 

First innings...withiut Ben stokes there was no ollie pope knock.

 

First innings is only for setting it up. Matches aren't won on that unless it gives a decisive advantage.Eng only scored 240 despite that knock.

 

 

[sensible-indian]

9 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

These are not semantics. Bowling is disproprtionately more important in Tests as winning a Test is based on taking 20 opposition wickets - not a necessary criterion in LOI's.

 

India's batting may well be overrated but that is not the main reason for this loss.

 

Ashwin, Axar and Jadeja were outbowled by a rookie.  

Its like complaining about a kid who scored 70 when he usually gets 90...while ignoring the kid who always scores 50.

 

As long as people keep blaming bowling, the batting gets a free pass.

 

Batsmen scored 320 runs on a day 2 pitch when they should have posted 600.

 

They needed 100 from the tail to even get to 420.

 

Thats the real issue.

 

Had Pujara been there, we would have chased this.

 

Same goes for Pant.

 

Our batsmen couldnt collectively score 150 in the 4th innings.

Edited January 28 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

First innings is only for setting it up. Matches aren't won on that unless it gives a decisive advantage.Eng only scored 240 despite that knock.

 

 

Had Stokes not played that knock..England were done.

 

Had india batted properly in first innings, we would have innings defeated England.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Had Stokes not played that knock..England were done.

 

Had india batted properly in first innings, we would have innings defeated England.

We took a 180+ first innings lead.

 

Match turned in 2nd innings mainly due to Pope