Paris Olympics 2024 Discussion Thread

[deathmonger]

Just now, zen said:

Nope. You cannot find champs that easily.
 

In that way, every wealthy country can claim to be able to win more medals!
 

 

 

And they do. All of the top countries are wealthy countries.

 

Maybe not in the same discipline. But as long as the system is good they will have something or the other.

 

How does China/Korea win so many medals in shooting? Their system produces many good shooters so even when OR/WR holders bow out, someone else takes their place.

 

Dominating in one event might be hard but as long as system is there, it will average out and you will have some champions.

 

India has a system, even if a lot weaker than others.

 

By the time Neeraj retires, some others in some other field will be there. When they retire, some others will spring up.

 

Not a coincidence that India's contingent size is getting bigger with time as performance in sports. 20 years ago India was a one medal country.

 

 

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Nope. Almost every county has a “system”. If there is system in javallian, there is system in other fields too!

 

 

All countries have systems obviously.

 

It depends on how developed it is.

 

Neeraj was identified and funded from a very young age.

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Lone Wolf said:

Watching us do well in Hockey is incredibly satisfying.  US going pound for pound in a tough field sport against Nordic and Anglos is like throwback to the times when Indians faced the might of Greeks back in the Ancient era. 

Somewhere along the road Indians lost that genetic edge & it reflected in every walk of life. 

Chinese should have been no match us to otherwise.. entire South Asia was cursed by something.

Vivekananda realised it as well & linked it to our colonial and foreign rule part.  Japan was his inspiration in that matter.

Caste.

 

[vvvslaxman]

14 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

There is a point. The point is participation. That is the ethos of the Olympics. That is why there are continental spots.

 

The point is to move the needle further. India didn't win anything much until 2008.

 

You are getting into circular logic.

 

Neeraj Chopra exists because of the system. Doesn't mean the system will create more Neeraj Chopras.

 

w/o the system, Neeraj wouldn't exist. System sent him to World Junior Athletics in 2016. System paid for coach and biomechanics expert. W/o system, Neeraj would not exist.

 

Because of system, there were 3 Indians in top 6 in World Athletics championships in javelin. Because of system, Jena won silver.

 

 

Forget about India vs other coutnries. Look at Indian states. Do all states contribute equally? Not really only some states produce athletes who are even good enough to qualify let alone win. There are some states who produce absolutely nothing. WHy is that the case? India is such a diverse country with diverse culture most don't even speak the same language, share the same culture.  Hindi is the link language. India has extra challenge in this regard compared to all the other countries. 

 

Look at the funding distribution for each state in India. Gujarat has such high investment. Yet hardly represents the country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at the representation

 

Edited August 12, 2024 by vvvslaxman

[deathmonger]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Forget about India vs other coutnries. Look at Indian states. Do all states contribute equally? Not really only some states produce athletes who are even good enough to qualify let alone win. There are some states who produce absolutely nothing. WHy is that the case? India is such a diverse country with diverse culture most don't even speak the same language, share the same culture.  Hindi is the link language. India has extra challenge in this regard compared to all the other countries. 

 

Look at the funding distribution for each state in India. Gujarat has such high investment. Yet hardly represents the country.

 

yeah go big on haryana and get those wrestling medals.

 

gujarat money is for construction for the ahmedabad sports city rather than athletes i think.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, deathmonger said:

yeah go big on haryana and get those wrestling medals.

 

gujarat money is for construction for the ahmedabad sports city rather than athletes i think.

 

Why do you allocate money to a state that hardly represents us. Look at the south states bar Karnataka. Woefully underfunded.

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Caste.

 

Caste always existed even in Ancient era... Yet Greek records mention that Indians were formidable & were taller in stature.  They were present even in the Battle of Gaugamela as mercenaries for hire.

I reckon food and dieting habits of Indians were much superior and genetic potential was close to its highest back then at least for IVC descendants.

Controversial but rise of Buddhism and Jainism led to pathetic fooding habits and change in staple diet of Indians nvm subconscious brainwashing & subsequent weakness in the society  throughout the subcontinent started.  

[coffee_rules]

This going around on SM. Is this verified that he’s loaded?

 

 

[Number]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

This going around on SM. Is this verified that he’s loaded?

 

 

He got big prize money from govts and many corporates after Tokyo Olympics gold. 7 crore from Haryana govt itself.

Then a lot of endorsements must have come to him.

His net worth is reported to be 37 crores.

[zen]

15 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

And they do. All of the top countries are wealthy countries.

 

Maybe not in the same discipline. But as long as the system is good they will have something or the other.

 

How does China/Korea win so many medals in shooting? Their system produces many good shooters so even when OR/WR holders bow out, someone else takes their place.

 

Dominating in one event might be hard but as long as system is there, it will average out and you will have some champions.

 

India has a system, even if a lot weaker than others.

 

By the time Neeraj retires, some others in some other field will be there. When they retire, some others will spring up.

 

Not a coincidence that India's contingent size is getting bigger with time as performance in sports. 20 years ago India was a one medal country.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

All countries have systems obviously.

 

It depends on how developed it is.

 

Neeraj was identified and funded from a very young age.

All countries have a system but you do not need a system to win a few golds if you have talent. 
 

Pakistan won a gold in javelin so it must have a system too that is probably as good as India’s. If not, then it is the talent that it produced from a population of the size of Uttar Pradesh’s. 
 

Similarly, India won medals because of the talent it has. For a population of 1.4B, it should ideally be able to produce more talent. In the past, it won gold medals in hockey with limited resources. 
 

Some folks can say India is winning medals because of a relative rise in GDP per capita, while some folks can say that it is due to the relative rise population which allows it to find more gems among more stones. 
 

India cannot restrict itself by keeping an inferiority complex about its relative lack of wealth and resources. It has to first learn to do the best from what it has. Otherwise when x happens, they will move on to waiting for y to happen, and then z. The carrot would keep going further and further away!

 

 

 

 

[Number]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

 

All countries have a system but you do not need a system to win a few golds if you have talent. 
 

Pakistan won a gold in javelin so it must have a system too that is probably as good as India’s. If not, then it is the talent that it produced from a population of the size of Uttar Pradesh’s. 
 

Similarly, India won medals because of the talent it has. For a population of 1.4B, it should ideally be able to produce more talent. In the past, it won gold medals in hockey with limited resources. 
 

Some folks can say India is winning medals because of a relative rise in GDP per capita, while some folks can say that it is due to the relative rise population which allows it to find more gems among more stones. 
 

India cannot restrict itself by keeping an inferiority complex about its relative lack of wealth and resources. It has to first learn to do the best from what it has. Otherwise when x happens, they will move on to waiting for y to happen, and then z. The carrot would keep going further and further away!

 

 

 

 

Not disagreeing completely but our system in Hockey was very good when we used to win, developed during British rule.

[vvvslaxman]

India has not unearthed enough talent. Some don't even realize their potential. Annavi when he was identified didn't even have shoes. Bought 2 days before the events. He cleared what? 2.12 meter. Now our record is 2.29 meter. So we have shown improvement. But others improve simultaneously.  Also there are some categories have so many medals. Swimming alone has 35 medals. Imagine us competing against USA/Canada/Australia

[zen]

I don’t read newspapers but have been told that newspapers in India have been critical of India’s performances at the Olympics. It is good to see this introspective mindset. 
 

We need to move away from this “excuses” mindset where for India to have X, it first needs to have Y. And when Y happens, Z. The carrot keeps running further and further away.
 

So if India is dirty, it because it lacks resources to have a good waste management system. Therefore, not much responsibility for people to keep it clean. Look at the temples in India, many of them, especially the surrounding areas, are extremely dirty. Some thought, accountability, and care would keep these holy places clean. And so on. It cannot be like when India’s GDP per capita becomes A in 2080, it will become clean.
 

Coming back to Olympics, India has to increase its benchmarks for sending athletes. I am not aware of the latest but being the best in India is no eligibility to be in the Olympics. Nor is meeting the minimum qualifying standards. 
 

Athletes have to meet the highest global standards. If they don’t, they have to push themselves to meet those standards. If you have chosen to be an athlete and you want to represent your country, you need to push yourself to be at the highest global standards. 
 

Say you can win 100 mts in India, by running it in around 10 sec. But to win a gold, you have to do it in less than 10 secs. Athletes should be made aware that they should be cracking under 10 secs to be in Olympics. 

Edited August 12, 2024 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

Let us send ALl Arjun next time for break competition :) May be there is a gold medal chance

[Kron]

44 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Watching us do well in Hockey is incredibly satisfying.  US going pound for pound in a tough field sport against Nordic and Anglos is like throwback to the times when Indians faced the might of Greeks back in the Ancient era. 

Somewhere along the road Indians lost that genetic edge & it reflected in every walk of life. 

Chinese should have been no match us to otherwise.. entire South Asia was cursed by something.

Vivekananda realised it as well & linked it to our colonial and foreign rule part.  Japan was his inspiration in that matter.

What you mean is we got lazy over time. 

[saransh]

Let's forget US and China for a second, as these countries have a medal conversion rate of 4-5 per athlete and let's look at at a country like Spain. Spain sent 388 athletes this Olympics and won a total of 18 medals, that's a medal conversion rate of 21 athletes/medal. India sent 117 athletes and won 6 medals with a conversion rate of 20 medals/athlete. I know there are team sports and individual's winning multiple medals. But over a large contingent this will even out.

We need to send much more athletes to the Olympics if we are to dream of winning 15 medals. Else We will be in an endless loop of 6-7 medals every time.

Edited August 12, 2024 by saransh

[Kron]

32 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

This going around on SM. Is this verified that he’s loaded?

 

 

Damn he is loaded as. That's the problem too. Motivation to do well after becoming rich. Luckily neeraj is built different. But lot of athletes can lose focus after becoming rich. Passion can go.

[vvvslaxman]

2025 has south asian games is supposed to be held at Pakistan.  Total of 7 countries participate

 

Bangladesh

Bhutan

India

Maldives

Nepal

Pakistan

Srilanka

 

Let us see how we do there. We have all the sports that we have in olympics plus cricket. Assuming we go to pakistan we can see the result

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Kron said:

Damn he is loaded as. That's the problem too. Motivation to do well after becoming rich. Luckily neeraj is built different. But lot of athletes can lose focus after becoming rich. Passion can go.

 

He has a gold and silve in two participation. Next time he will be a little older. If he can push hard he can nail another medal atleast bronze. That is more than one can expect from an athlete 

[zen]

6 minutes ago, saransh said:

Let's forget US and China for a second, as these countries have a medal conversion rate of 4-5 per athlete and let's look at at a country like Spain. Spain sent 388 athletes this Olympics and won a total of 18 medals, that's a medal conversion rate of 21 athletes/medal. India sent 117 athletes and won 6 medals with a conversion rate of 20 medals/athlete. I know there are team sports and individual's winning multiple medals. But over a large contingent this will even out.

We need to send much more athletes to the Olympics if we are to dream of winning 15 medals. Else We will be in an endless loop of 6-7 medals every time.

 

So easy, so to win 10 medals, India just has to send 200 athletes (assuming that a lot of world class athletes are on the bench and have missed out). 
 

And then to win 50 medals, send 1,000 athletes