BGT : The Magnum Opus crafted by Cricket Gods

[Gollum]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

Saha is so under-rated.

 

Is he the greatest Indian wicket keeper?

 

Where does he stand at the world level?

One of my favorite players. Used to get **** all the time here because I was probably his only supporter

 

Healy had a great reputation (kept Gilly away for long time, same old specialist keeper vs keeper-bat argument), and kept against Warne, but keeping in Aussie wickets is much easier because of consistent bounce.  Boucher never tested against spin. WI tracks (especially earlier eras) tougher because of variable bounce, but Murray/Dujon never got tested against spin. 

 

In SC (bounce, spin) and England (late swing), different matter, so keepers from there should get extra points.

 

Rashid Latif was great and kept to genuine pace, wizardry of Ws, reverse swing, quality spin etc. 

 

Kirmani was a big shot but hardly tested against pace. Wasim Bari similar reputation though he kept to Imran in his later years. 

 

Prasanna Jayawardane, Nayan Mongia great against spin. Even Dhoni to some extent.  

 

Knott unanimously rated as the GOAT (kept a lot to Underwood, especially tough on wet wickets) but personally feel his clutch batting gave his reputation an extra lift. 

 

Jack Russell genuinely skilled but probably that English bowling attack wasn't the most challenging.

 

My vote goes to Bob Taylor who was contemporary of Knott but didn't play much due to poor batting record (tailender level). Have heard a lot about him. 

 

Current era (post 90s), Saha though I can understand if I am in the minority. 

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, Number said:

Aussies were no saints either. 4 out of 6 of Sachin's dismissal in 1999-00 series in Australia were questionable some of them not even close.

Then of course their is Sydney till then TV umpiring and everything was so evolved still such blatant errors from umpires.

sydney was in the so-called "neutral" era, so it is even less acceptable

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, Number said:

Aussies were no saints either. 4 out of 6 of Sachin's dismissal in 1999-00 series in Australia were questionable some of them not even close.

Then of course their is Sydney till then TV umpiring and everything was so evolved still such blatant errors from umpires.

 

yes DRS is godsent now.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

One of my favorite players. Used to get **** all the time here because I was probably his only supporter

 

Healy had a great reputation (kept Gilly away for long time, same old specialist keeper vs keeper-bat argument), and kept against Warne, but keeping in Aussie wickets is much easier because of consistent bounce.  Boucher never tested against spin. WI tracks (especially earlier eras) tougher because of variable bounce, but Murray/Dujon never got tested against spin. 

 

In SC (bounce, spin) and England (late swing), different matter, so keepers from there should get extra points.

 

Rashid Latif was great and kept to genuine pace, wizardry of Ws, reverse swing, quality spin etc. 

 

Kirmani was a big shot but hardly tested against pace. Wasim Bari similar reputation though he kept to Imran in his later years. 

 

Prasanna Jayawardane, Nayan Mongia great against spin. Even Dhoni to some extent.  

 

Knott unanimously rated as the GOAT (kept a lot to Underwood, especially tough on wet wickets) but personally feel his clutch batting gave his reputation an extra lift. 

 

Jack Russell genuinely skilled but probably that English bowling attack wasn't the most challenging.

 

My vote goes to Bob Taylor who was contemporary of Knott but didn't play much due to poor batting record (tailender level). Have heard a lot about him. 

 

Current era (post 90s), Saha though I can understand if I am in the minority. 

 

Don't think anybody doubted his keeping abilities, but he still was keeping Pant away. Once Pant replaced him in 2021 BGT, our fortunes changed. 

 

Saha was unfortunately born in wrong era (in terms of keeper-bat argument)

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Don't think anybody doubted his keeping abilities, but he still was keeping Pant away. Once Pant replaced him in 2021 BGT, our fortunes changed. 

 

Saha was unfortunately born in wrong era (in terms of keeper-bat argument)

Dhoni had lost interest in test cricket by 2011-12, Saha should have come earlier and made way for Pant by 2018-19. 

[Vijy]

24 minutes ago, Gollum said:

One of my favorite players. Used to get **** all the time here because I was probably his only supporter

 

Healy had a great reputation (kept Gilly away for long time, same old specialist keeper vs keeper-bat argument), and kept against Warne, but keeping in Aussie wickets is much easier because of consistent bounce.  Boucher never tested against spin. WI tracks (especially earlier eras) tougher because of variable bounce, but Murray/Dujon never got tested against spin. 

 

In SC (bounce, spin) and England (late swing), different matter, so keepers from there should get extra points.

 

Rashid Latif was great and kept to genuine pace, wizardry of Ws, reverse swing, quality spin etc. 

 

Kirmani was a big shot but hardly tested against pace. Wasim Bari similar reputation though he kept to Imran in his later years. 

 

Prasanna Jayawardane, Nayan Mongia great against spin. Even Dhoni to some extent.  

 

Knott unanimously rated as the GOAT (kept a lot to Underwood, especially tough on wet wickets) but personally feel his clutch batting gave his reputation an extra lift. 

 

Jack Russell genuinely skilled but probably that English bowling attack wasn't the most challenging.

 

My vote goes to Bob Taylor who was contemporary of Knott but didn't play much due to poor batting record (tailender level). Have heard a lot about him. 

 

Current era (post 90s), Saha though I can understand if I am in the minority. 

As a pure keeper, James Foster was really good too. Saha is certainly underrated, I don't think you are the only one who feels so.

[Gollum]

Ashwin-Jaddu would have retired in one year tops had the keeper been Parthiv. Can only recall the horrors of his keeping against England in 2016, almost reduced Ashwin to tears so many times. And 2018 Centurion OMG.

 

Both so lucky to have someone like Saha as keeper and Rahane as slipper in their prime. Especially the former, big confidence boost for bowlers. 

[nevada]

39 minutes ago, Gollum said:

One of my favorite players. Used to get **** all the time here because I was probably his only supporter

 

Healy had a great reputation (kept Gilly away for long time, same old specialist keeper vs keeper-bat argument), and kept against Warne, but keeping in Aussie wickets is much easier because of consistent bounce.  Boucher never tested against spin. WI tracks (especially earlier eras) tougher because of variable bounce, but Murray/Dujon never got tested against spin. 

 

In SC (bounce, spin) and England (late swing), different matter, so keepers from there should get extra points.

 

Rashid Latif was great and kept to genuine pace, wizardry of Ws, reverse swing, quality spin etc. 

 

Kirmani was a big shot but hardly tested against pace. Wasim Bari similar reputation though he kept to Imran in his later years. 

 

Prasanna Jayawardane, Nayan Mongia great against spin. Even Dhoni to some extent.  

 

Knott unanimously rated as the GOAT (kept a lot to Underwood, especially tough on wet wickets) but personally feel his clutch batting gave his reputation an extra lift. 

 

Jack Russell genuinely skilled but probably that English bowling attack wasn't the most challenging.

 

My vote goes to Bob Taylor who was contemporary of Knott but didn't play much due to poor batting record (tailender level). Have heard a lot about him. 

 

Current era (post 90s), Saha though I can understand if I am in the minority. 

I am also a big fan of Saha. Besides his technically sound keeping, what set him apart was his attitude. He gave his best regardless of whether he was picked for an entire series or just a game as a placeholder. 

[Gollum]

Just now, nevada said:

I am also a big fan of Saha. Besides his technically sound keeping, what set him apart was his attitude. He gave his best regardless of whether he was picked for an entire series or just a game as a placeholder. 

He was also genuinely happy for Pant when latter took his place. Total team man.

 

Got unwarranted hate from fans because of TM sidelining Pant for him. But one must remember, a guy like Saha will have no sway in our TM, low profile introverted guy and with Shastri/Kohli duo.....how's it his fault if TM preferred him till maybe 1-2 years past his expiry date?

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

He was also genuinely happy for Pant when latter took his place. Total team man.

 

Got unwarranted hate from fans because of TM sidelining Pant for him. But one must remember, a guy like Saha will have no sway in our TM, low profile introverted guy and with Shastri/Kohli duo.....how's it his fault if TM preferred him till maybe 1-2 years past his expiry date?

It was the manifestation of senioritis again, and Saha got the brickbats instead of Bewda-Kohli

[raki05]

2017 also was great series.

[goose]

this result will elevate the status of the BGT to a new level especially if we make it 2-2.

 

i think the aussies, because of their history with the ashes, are far more tuned than us into the idea of 'retaining' a trophy by drawing a series. we have never considered a drawn series a win against any nation.

 

until now - all to play for !

[Vijy]

3-1 loading. this has been a one-sided BGT. could have been 4-1 if not for rain

[MechEng]

On 12/28/2024 at 8:17 PM, Gollum said:

GOAT: 2020-21, 2001

 

ATG: 2003-04 (away), 2017

 

Memorable: 1998, 2004 (even though we lost), Monkeygate one, 2018-19

 

Only bad ones were 1999-00, 2011-12. Even 2013 home series, 2014-15 were captivating. 

 

Greatest rivalry, because of clash of styles akin to Federer vs Nadal. 

 

OnlY Aus-RSA rivalry comes close (still distant second) in the modern era. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/28/2024 at 2:12 PM, sensible-indian said:

True.

 

Unpredictability & drama wise:

 

2001 - blockbuster

2003 - blockbuster

2004 - blockbuster

2007 - blockbuster

2008 - boring cos India was too strong

2010 - same except the one game where Laxman snatched a win outta nowhere

2011 - boring as India was too weak

2013 - fun but Aus couldn't play spin

2014 - great series

2017 - blockbuster

2018 - fun cos India controlled from day 1 thanks to Pujara

2020 - blockbuster

2023 - blockbuster

2024 - interesting for sure even though quality of cricket is low from both sides (barring a few players)

 

 

Unpopular opinion, but I felt that the quality of cricket in 2017 BG trophy was superior to that of in 2020-21 series.

 

Gabba win was great but Aus batting looked circumspect throughout the series. That 2017 Aus side had all their bases covered.

 

I would rank the 2017 BG trophy 2nd after the 2001 VVS Laxman series. The 2001 BG trophy will never be topped by any other cricket series played by India given the legendary status it has achieved.

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

 

 

Unpopular opinion, but I felt that the quality of cricket in 2017 BG trophy was superior to that of in 2020-21 series.

 

Gabba win was great but Aus batting looked circumspect throughout the series. That 2017 Aus side had all their bases covered.

 

I would rank the 2017 BG trophy 2nd after the 2001 VVS Laxman series. The 2001 BG trophy will never be topped by any other cricket series played by India given the legendary status it has achieved.

Interesting take.

[MechEng]

18 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Interesting take.

 

I get this feeling that the sandpaper gate may have taken some sting off the Aussie side. Pre 2018, Aus was quite aggressive (Starc gesturing Ashwin that he will aim for his head), Smith was like Kohli temperament wise, so the series felt like two douchebag captains at their primes who disliked each other competing hard to win.

 

2020-21 is an epic series too no doubt (maybe the best BG trophy of all time). But I felt that if a batting line up loses 20 wickets regularly against the likes of Thakur and Siraj consistently, it is not a very robust line up for sure. Smith was a shadow of his dominant self, Labushcgane was in good form only and others were nothing impressive. Aussie fast bowling was gun though.

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

 

I get this feeling that the sandpaper gate may have taken some sting off the Aussie side. Pre 2018, Aus was quite aggressive (Starc gesturing Ashwin that he will aim for his head), Smith was like Kohli temperament wise, so the series felt like two douchebag captains at their primes who disliked each other competing hard to win.

 

2020-21 is an epic series too no doubt (maybe the best BG trophy of all time). But I felt that if a batting line up loses 20 wickets regularly against the likes of Thakur and Siraj consistently, it is not a very robust line up for sure. Smith was a shadow of his dominant self, Labushcgane was in good form only and others were nothing impressive. Aussie fast bowling was gun though.

Yes but mindset is a very very underrated aspect.

 

When men are pushed into a corner, driven by cause that's greater than themselves..

 

They are capable of feats that is beyond the realms of what they could normally do.

 

Its like what adrenaline can do to you.

 

I dont give a **** if i die but im not gonna let my team down and im gonna take my opponent down with me...

 

Take a look at what Pujara did to eliminate even the teeny tiny bit of chance of his dismissal...

 

You are gonna hit my body and bruise me but i aint giving up my wicket...

 

That's what is special about men.

 

When that's triggered, men become unstoppable.

 

2020-21 BGT was that kind of series for India.

 

Even before Gabba, everyone was saying that no matter which Indian player is selected, they are gonna come firing on all cylinders.

 

Such was the aura around the team.

 

With some luck and some incredible guts, we became part of (arguably) the greatest test series ever.

Edited December 31, 2024 by sensible-indian

[Lord]

4 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

 

Unpopular opinion, but I felt that the quality of cricket in 2017 BG trophy was superior to that of in 2020-21 series.

 

Gabba win was great but Aus batting looked circumspect throughout the series. That 2017 Aus side had all their bases covered.

 

I would rank the 2017 BG trophy 2nd after the 2001 VVS Laxman series. The 2001 BG trophy will never be topped by any other cricket series played by India given the legendary status it has achieved.

 

Yes 2017 was awesome. Both Jadeja Ashwin in incredible form and Kuldeep in last game. Unfortunately people like to downplay our spinners' exploits at home.

[MechEng]

45 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Yes but mindset is a very very underrated aspect.

 

When men are pushed into a corner, driven by cause that's greater than themselves..

 

They are capable of feats that is beyond the realms of what they could normally do.

 

Its like what adrenaline can do to you.

 

I dont give a **** if i die but im not gonna let my team down and im gonna take my opponent down with me...

 

Take a look at what Pujara did to eliminate even the teeny tiny bit of chance of his dismissal...

 

You are gonna hit my body and bruise me but i aint giving up my wicket...

 

That's what is special about men.

 

When that's triggered, men become unstoppable.

 

2020-21 BGT was that kind of series for India.

 

Even before Gabba, everyone was saying that no matter which Indian player is selected, they are gonna come firing on all cylinders.

 

Such was the aura around the team.

 

With some luck and some incredible guts, we became part of (arguably) the greatest test series ever.

 

This is a bit of an exaggeration in my opinion. 

 

Pujara took on body blows and that was heroic, but let's not forget that weak batting from Aus helped us a lot when considering Saini and Natarajan's wayward bowling in the Gabba game. 

 

Also, the brand of cricket for which Pant is getting criticized now is the same style which won us the Gabba test along with the Sydney draw.

 

The same cannot be said for BGT 2017, since I cannot recollect a single flaw from either side, every session was edge of the seat stuff.

Edited December 31, 2024 by MechEng

[sensible-indian]

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

This is a bit of an exaggeration in my opinion. 

 

Pujara took on body blows and that was heroic, but let's not forget that weak batting from Aus helped us a lot when considering Saini and Natarajan's wayward bowling in the Gabba game. 

 

Also, the brand of cricket for which Pant is getting criticized now is the same style which won us the Gabba test along with the Sydney draw.

 

The same cannot be said for BGT 2017, since I cannot recollect a single flaw from either side, every session was edge of the seat stuff.

 

- You are massively under-estimating the mindset part. 2020-21 was a battle of WILL over skill.

 

- Also, Pant's Gabba was an absolute masterclass. The first half and second half of his innings were completely different. Yes, he had luck there and he did play a needless aerial shot in the final stages of the game (which could have cost us the series) but by and large, that Pant knew when to attack and when to defend and didn't needlessly attempt crazy shots.

 

-Of course, none of my points were comparing 2017 with 2021. 2017 might have been of higher quality cos Aus was more well prepared. The biggest factor in 2017 was Ashwin carried an injury which made the series competitive. Incredible series tho.