Saif Ali Khan stabbed in his Mumbail residence

[coffee_rules]

8 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Why do you keep calling it Urduwood?

 

Is this supposed to be an insult?

No , urdu is dominant in movies made by Bollywood. Most of the song and dialogue writers are predominantly Muslim/Punjabi still write complex persian words in their songs and use words like Kaffir, Allah, Maula which are all Urdu words. I am talking of even recent songs. Not that there's anything wrong with it, hence Urduwood is a common term used for HFI.

 

Case in point, supposedly both Hindu chars - song has  Japan-e-bahar , husn, bemisaal, wallah, kamaal- Kyon Bhai?

 

Song is good , written by Shakeel Badayuni! 
 

 

Edited February 6, 2025 by coffee_rules

[Mariyam]

@coffee_rules

 

Urdu is not the language of Islam/Muslims.

 

Urdu is faith agnostic and is primarily the language of Lucknow and its environs. 

 

Another song by Shakeel Badayuni , from "Urduwood" 

 

 

Urdu overload?

[mishra]

Common sense and fact says this.

Most of local Indian languages were connected by Sanskrit as mother ship. i think various studies by experts say 30-40% word in every local language of India find its roots in Sanskrit.

 

I never studied Sanskrit unless you class it as studying, in some Shloks in Government run village primary SChool (upto class 5). But recently I started listening various shloks on you tube videos during gym (thank to new Year resolution that I will go to Gym again)  and after few weeks, I started picking few words here and there while listening Sanskrit Shloks. So, Not just sholarly studies but I have personally realised above 30-40% word theory may be correct.

 

English ruled India for 200+ years and most Indian effectively Speak Hinglish. Tamil can be classed as speaking Tinglish 

 

Now Persian influence on our local languages came via 1600 years of some rule of which 1000 Years was where foreign Invaders were effectively ruling Delhi and a lot of North. Urdu got invented in India as another dialect which was mostly somewhere mix of local words and persian words.Think most estimates say Urdu got invented in Awadh province of Bharat during Muslim rule as a official and eduated peoples language of the time.

 

My wife has forced me to watch "Dubai Bling" on netflix each evening in Arabic with English Subtiles and words like "Mushkil (Difficult)" , "Takariban (estimatngly about)" and many other words I hear on it.

Edited February 7, 2025 by mishra

[mishra]

How can anyone oppose Urdu. What a beautifull recitation of life lessons. I think Roashanji and Rafi Saaheb totally effed up this beautifull work

 

 

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@coffee_rules

 

Urdu is not the language of Islam/Muslims.

 

Urdu is faith agnostic and is primarily the language of Lucknow and its environs. 

 

Another song by Shakeel Badayuni , from "Urduwood" 

 

 

Urdu overload?

No that song is secularism / Ganga Jamuna tehzeeb  overload.   Akbar had 300+ women in his harem! 
 

Dont get me wrong , Urdu is a beautiful language , but you are in denial when you say it is religion agnostic and Indian Muslims (I should say North Indian) prefer Urdu over other languages. There are many words in Urdu that is only referring to Islam or has roots from Islam. There might be many words that is translated to generic words like god, worship, etc, but Allah is not eshwar for Muslims, in general. Al-taquiyya, Dhimmi, Kaffir, Jizya are all Urdu adopted words from Arabic or Persian that has Islamic roots. 
 

Kashmir, West Punjab, and now Bangladesh Muslims adopted Urdu over their regional language. Jei wants more Urdu adoption in BD . They want BD National anthem to be changed to Urdu. Omar Abdullah probably never gets  Kashmiri , but he speaks Tos Urdu. Barellvis and Dehlvis wanted Pakistan, went there and made Urdu its national language and imposed it on Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi and Pashtun as well.  Except for TN and Kerala , all Indian Muslims talk or prefer  Urdu over their local language. Telengana and Karnataka Muslims speak in Dakkani which is morphed Urdu. Lakhnavis make fun of such languages.

 

Hence, Bollywood is sometimes referred to its preference to Urdu. If someone speaks in shuddh Hindi , he is for comic interlude or a sanghi character with negative shades. 
 

BTW, Sahir Ludhanvi’s fav song for me is: 

 

Altho, Sanskrit is generic, many of its words has etymological roots in Sanatan dharma. Similar to what Irdu has with Islam. 

Edited February 7, 2025 by coffee_rules

[Mariyam]

@coffee_rules The percentage of Urdu literacy in India among Muslims has been on a steady decline in the last 30 years.

 

You would barely find kids nowadays in big cities who can read/write Urdu. Urdu newspaper readership and publications are also in the doldrums. In the last 15 years at least 3 major newspapers have shut. There is no readership. There is not much new literature coming out these days in Urdu.

 

Mumbai University Urdu chair teaches poems from the 1970s as Avant garde prose *today*.

 

All this Urdu fear mongering has no basis in reality. Also people wanting to speak Urdu across India is just not true.

In Gujarati Muslims, Bohris & Khojas speak Gujarati. Memons speak Memoni or Kutchi. There is no push for Urdu.

Konkani Muslims speak Konkani. 

 

Yes, Urdu has a fair share of Islamic terminology borrowed from Arabic. That does not make it an Islamic language. Many of the better Urdu poets/writers have been non Muslims. And I can't speak for others, but it is a matter of pride for *me*.

 

The reality is that English/Hinglish is the common language in Bollywood for the last many years. Hardly anyone in Bollywood has Urdu literacy anymore. I am quite sure that the Khans who are almost always (and wrongly) accused of spreading Urdu in India can't read/write Urdu themselves. Or even if they can, they have no habit of regular Urdu reading.

 

Alas, Urdu is a dying language today. Aside of a Jashn e Rekhta, which has become more of a pompous show and regurgitation or parodies of work of previous greats, there are hardly any notable mehfils anymore. Hardly any sponsorship from the pvt sector. 

 

It suffers the same ailments as other Indian langauges and is further reviled as an 'enemy' language.

[coffee_rules]

55 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@coffee_rules The percentage of Urdu literacy in India among Muslims has been on a steady decline in the last 30 years.

 

You would barely find kids nowadays in big cities who can read/write Urdu. Urdu newspaper readership and publications are also in the doldrums. In the last 15 years at least 3 major newspapers have shut. There is no readership. There is not much new literature coming out these days in Urdu.

 

Mumbai University Urdu chair teaches poems from the 1970s as Avant garde prose *today*.

 

All this Urdu fear mongering has no basis in reality. Also people wanting to speak Urdu across India is just not true.

In Gujarati Muslims, Bohris & Khojas speak Gujarati. Memons speak Memoni or Kutchi. There is no push for Urdu.

Konkani Muslims speak Konkani. 

I forgot to mention Gujarati Muslims, they are like TN amd Mallus. I never called it Urduwood out of fear-mongering. It is highly noticeable esp in older songs, we can see Urdu peotry was preferred it songs and dialogues. We have such beautiful languages in India, why should bollywood make songs with some Persian words that is not even in usage in Urdu. I heard some song recently and asked what does that mean -- some cool dude explained it is a Persian word ... etc..whatever. I had mentioned in the Member board interview, that my grand father was Urdu teacher in a Government school, I was very much interested in learning to read. Maybe somebody before qayamat happens!

 

 

55 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

 

Yes, Urdu has a fair share of Islamic terminology borrowed from Arabic. That does not make it an Islamic language. Many of the better Urdu poets/writers have been non Muslims. And I can't speak for others, but it is a matter of pride for *me*.

 

The reality is that English/Hinglish is the common language in Bollywood for the last many years. Hardly anyone in Bollywood has Urdu literacy anymore. I am quite sure that the Khans who are almost always (and wrongly) accused of spreading Urdu in India can't read/write Urdu themselves. Or even if they can, they have no habit of regular Urdu reading.

 

Alas, Urdu is a dying language today. Aside of a Jashn e Rekhta, which has become more of a pompous show and regurgitation or parodies of work of previous greats, there are hardly any notable mehfils anymore. Hardly any sponsorship from the pvt sector. 

 

It suffers the same ailments as other Indian langauges and is further reviled as an 'enemy' language.

 

Most of the preference in the mentions like Pakistan, BD for Urdu is definitely not for reading, but the way it can used to promote the religion.  One incident I remember from the 90s happened in Bengaluru when the govt stopped the Urdu News in Doordarshan (Kannada) and there were communal riiots. Incidents like these cause the fear and othering of Urdu.  

 

Even in Aurangzeb's time, Persian was the official language of the court and not even Urdu. Urdu was in usage among common folk and was used to communicate more among public, Even Tipu Sultan had a preference for Persian  and used Urdu in many official communication of his rule. Words like Tassildar, Mujarai dept, is still in use in Karnataka. It doesn't come naturally to people , it will always have a feeling of the other. 

Edited February 7, 2025 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

How can anyone oppose Urdu. What a beautifull recitation of life lessons. I think Roashanji and Rafi Saaheb totally effed up this beautifull work

 

C'mon it is one of the best works of Roshan/Rafi. Nothing effing about the song. Lyrics are not exactly like the original ghazal, it was modified for a meter that was used by the MD - Roshan. For the melody and meter, Musicians have to adapt. I remember Ghulam Ali's Awargi was different in the film song. You can't be a purist in Music, it is a combination of poetry, tune, meter (taal) and melody. If you call it effing up, is not fair.

[diga]

For those glorifying Urdu, most languages have the semantics/vocabulary to make it beautiful.. well put in the below video

This guy called out the fake glorification of Urdu like nobody else #StopUrthuImposition pic.twitter.com/6qi7v9uTfT

— Eminent Intellectual (@total_woke_) February 9, 2025

 

[coffee_rules]

5 hours ago, diga said:

For those glorifying Urdu, most languages have the semantics/vocabulary to make it beautiful.. well put in the below video

 

Exactly, my gripe with Bollywood is they glorified Urdu and made fun of shuddh Hindi’s. Before Independence, we had movies that spoke of Hindu pride, it went away post Independence because of the secularists in every field. 
 

 

[Mariyam]

19 hours ago, diga said:

For those glorifying Urdu, most languages have the semantics/vocabulary to make it beautiful.. well put in the below video

 

You, and the protagonist in your embedded X tweet, are confused or simply ill represent the argument.

 

Being verbose is not the same as 'glorification' of a language.

 

Brevity, always, is the soul of wit.

Edited February 10, 2025 by Mariyam

[Mariyam]

13 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Exactly, my gripe with Bollywood is they glorified Urdu and made fun of shuddh Hindi’s. Before Independence, we had movies that spoke of Hindu pride, it went away post Independence because of the secularists in every field. 
 

 

The bolded part is simply a narrative you espouse without any basis in factual reality. And a continued attempt to revile a language. There is nothing "Urduwood" like in the Mumbai film industry. Barely any screenplays are written in the Urdu script. Most are written in Hindi in the English script.

 

Having a few Persian loan words in a song seems to have ticked you off the wrong way. There are tons of songs with many foreign words. Sayonara Sayonara comes to mind, but your angst is reserved for only Persian?

 

Indian languages use tons of loan words from Persian. Maidan, Dunya, Neki, Bagh, Dil, Rang etc. There are also loan words from Vedic Sanskrit in Persian. That is how languages work.

 

Why do you just keep a grouse for so long? Why not get a group of like minded people and pool in funds to make movies in Sanskrit/Shuddh Hindi and mock Urdu. What has stopped anyone from doing that?

 

Instead you want to decide what movies others should make with their funds? 

[diga]

23 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

You, and the protagonist in your embedded X tweet, are confused or simply ill represent the argument.

 

Being verbose is not the same as 'glorification' of a language.

 

Brevity, always, is the soul of wit.

Sure.. all I am saying is that almost every language has those semantics. Urdu seems to hog that limelight 

[coffee_rules]

38 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

The bolded part is simply a narrative you espouse without any basis in factual reality. And a continued attempt to revile a language. There is nothing "Urduwood" like in the Mumbai film industry. Barely any screenplays are written in the Urdu script. Most are written in Hindi in the English script.

 

Having a few Persian loan words in a song seems to have ticked you off the wrong way. There are tons of songs with many foreign words. Sayonara Sayonara comes to mind, but your angst is reserved for only Persian?

 

Indian languages use tons of loan words from Persian. Maidan, Dunya, Neki, Bagh, Dil, Rang etc. There are also loan words from Vedic Sanskrit in Persian. That is how languages work.

 

Why do you just keep a grouse for so long? Why not get a group of like minded people and pool in funds to make movies in Sanskrit/Shuddh Hindi and mock Urdu. What has stopped anyone from doing that?

 

Instead you want to decide what movies others should make with their funds? 

We should agree to disagree. We don’t see our viewpoints despite many posts. I have a grouse and I feel it is fair. Powerless to start making movies that’ll be good to my  liking. What’s wrong with the reel  that @diga posted? 

Edited February 10, 2025 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

45 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

You, and the protagonist in your embedded X tweet, are confused or simply ill represent the argument.

 

Being verbose is not the same as 'glorification' of a language.

 

Brevity, always, is the soul of wit.

Tell it to the people clapping at her narrative and the people in Bollywood setting the same narrative . Just a counter back irks you? 

[diga]

26 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Tell it to the people clapping at her narrative and the people in Bollywood setting the same narrative . Just a counter back irks you? 

Problem is we relate more to the environment we grow in... Nothing wrong with it, but its subjective

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

The bolded part is simply a narrative you espouse without any basis in factual reality. And a continued attempt to revile a language. There is nothing "Urduwood" like in the Mumbai film industry. Barely any screenplays are written in the Urdu script. Most are written in Hindi in the English script.

 

Having a few Persian loan words in a song seems to have ticked you off the wrong way. There are tons of songs with many foreign words. Sayonara Sayonara comes to mind, but your angst is reserved for only Persian?

 

Indian languages use tons of loan words from Persian. Maidan, Dunya, Neki, Bagh, Dil, Rang etc. There are also loan words from Vedic Sanskrit in Persian. That is how languages work.

 

Why do you just keep a grouse for so long? Why not get a group of like minded people and pool in funds to make movies in Sanskrit/Shuddh Hindi and mock Urdu. What has stopped anyone from doing that?

 

Instead you want to decide what movies others should make with their funds? 

See how narrative was set from the “Aao bacchon tunmhe sikhayen jhaki Hindustan ki” .. to Mughals discovered Kashmir, architecture , art , music and even khana as if we were uncultured louts before Moghuls graced with their presence in our land I am talking about this aspect of Bollywood.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2025 by coffee_rules

[Lord]

 

[Mariyam]

5 hours ago, diga said:

Sure.. all I am saying is that almost every language has those semantics. Urdu seems to hog that limelight 

 

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

We should agree to disagree. We don’t see our viewpoints despite many posts. I have a grouse and I feel it is fair. Powerless to start making movies that’ll be good to my  liking. What’s wrong with the reel  that @diga posted? 

 

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Tell it to the people clapping at her narrative and the people in Bollywood setting the same narrative . Just a counter back irks you? 

Re: the reel posted by @diga, the speaker is *mocking* the ways of the shayars. She is not glorifying Urdu as a language but in general saying that long winded prose loses out to concise communication in this age. The event is the Jashn e Rekhta, which I mentioned a few posts back. Shall post the entire video later when I find it on YT.

Taking a sentence out of context and putting the title "Glorification of Urdu" is disingenuous. 

 

You are setting a narrative here! That Urdu is being imposed on innocent Hindus by Bollywood to brainwash them into hating their own customs and history. And then you go on to show random scenes from flop movies in the annexe to support your claim. Who has even watched Bemisal? And even if many have, do we take history lessons from movies because AB in an unrelated scene in an obscure movie in the 70s/80s said so?

 

Let me give you a counter:

Watch from 1:40

 

A caricaturish portrayal of nawabs and their entourage. Mocking of their way of speech etc. Does it anger me? Not at all. Its a movie. Its comedy. I laugh it off, even when I see it now, and absolutely love the movie.

I don't call it a conspiracy of "Hinduwood" to demoralize and misguide Muslims about their culture.

 

That @coffee_rules sahab is the difference in our viewpoints.

 

Having a few Persian words sprinkled in a song is a cardinal sin, but a song starting with Sayonara Sayonara is okay? Senoirita from Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara has an entire mukhda in Spanish. Nashe se chaddh gayi hai has French sprinkled along the way.

Duplicitous that there is no objection raised here. No comments on how the poor viewers would relate to those languages. Why is that?

[Mariyam]

5 hours ago, diga said:

Sure.. all I am saying is that almost every language has those semantics. Urdu seems to hog that limelight 

Maybe in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Not anymore.

Edited February 10, 2025 by Mariyam