Operation sindoor

[G_B_]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Saw it bro.

Tbh, it repeats the old rhetoric. We know that Su-57 is a semi-stealth and with it's current AL41 engine, it's just an improvement over Su30.
If Kinzal missile is indeed incorporated, Su-57 will become competent enough even with AL41 against J-35. With AL-51 it's gonna be a leap ahead.

I'm somewhat frustrated and irritated with the laziness of IAF as well. They shouldn't have agreed to detach from Su-57 program but rather should have stayed and pushed Russia. If Russia can make the improvements post 2018 in the current version of Su57, they could have done more had we stayed with the program.

Russia is currently in Ukraine war, yet it's industries are producing older Soviet jets like Su-34, Su-35, Mig-31 etc in larger numbers and parallely even working on Su-57 and potentially on Su-75 as well. What they need is workforce. However, here we are, just dozing off and HAL is shamelessly telling that they will produce 8 jets in a year. A country with a massive workforce like India it should ideally be producing 2-3 squadrons per year on the war footing (atleast for the jets whose design is finalized and passed by the IAF).

 

Its not semi-stealth at all. RCS is 0.1, which can be picked up easily by today's radar tech. I think Hal Tejas Mk1 has an RCS of 1. No use for deep strike missions for which stealth is needed.

 

The Su57 or the Product 30 engine. AL51 engine will give the bird super cruise. 

 

Kinzhel is an MiG integrated product. Hard to integrate with a Su. The russians themselves barely have 20 Mig31k on which they operate it. They are not producing more.  Best to stick to focusing on Brahmos 2.

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Its not semi-stealth at all. RCS is 0.1, which can be picked up easily by today's radar tech. I think Hal Tejas Mk1 has an RCS of 1. No use for deep strike missions for which stealth is needed.

 

The Su57 or the Product 30 engine. AL51 engine will give the bird super cruise. 

 

Kinzhel is an MiG integrated product. Hard to integrate with a Su. The russians themselves barely have 20 Mig31k on which they operate it. They are not producing more.  Best to stick to focusing on Brahmos 2.

I think IAF is cleared out that they're not gonna use it for stealth missions.
They're gonna use it for long range strikes, courtesy of their higher payload capacity. 
Sad to see that our babus are busy jerking off on their sofas with no understanding of the real world.

Edited October 4, 2025 by singhvivek141

[G_B_]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think IAF is cleared out that they're not gonna use it for stealth missions.
They're gonna use it for long range strikes, courtesy of their higher payload capacity. 
Sad to see that our babus are busy jerking off on their sofas with no understanding of the real world.

 

But long range strikes means it should not be detected...thats the world we live in.

 

See i dont mind 40 to 50 su57 with brahmos 2 on them (the extra payload) at a reasonable price. But they are not going to be doing long range strike missions.

 

You think china cant see a su57 coming? The su30mki is enough for pak when operating within indian airspace.

 

I would get the su57 and park them in airfields in andaman and nicobar. Their extra reach and speed can support our navy in the strait of malacca, choking it. But forget about long range strikes.

 

India better off focusing its own tu or b52 bombers or even better focussing on deep strike missiles.

 

Everything has a price. If russia comes up with offer of 50 su57 with tot fir 5 to 6 billion then take it. Despite flaws its a chance to invest in our capacity.

 

 

[G_B_]

And btw drdo ghatak has achieved a rcs of around 0.01. They are looking to reduce it to 0.001.

 

It should be noted that unmanned fighters the rcs is much easier to lower than traditional fighter jets. But they have limitations in range and payload.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

But long range strikes means it should not be detected...thats the world we live in.

 

See i dont mind 40 to 50 su57 with brahmos 2 on them (the extra payload) at a reasonable price. But they are not going to be doing long range strike missions.

 

You think china cant see a su57 coming? The su30mki is enough for pak when operating within indian airspace.

 

I would get the su57 and park them in airfields in andaman and nicobar. Their extra reach and speed can support our navy in the strait of malacca, choking it. But forget about long range strikes.

 

India better off focusing its own tu or b52 bombers or even better focussing on deep strike missiles.

 

Everything has a price. If russia comes up with offer of 50 su57 with tot fir 5 to 6 billion then take it. Despite flaws its a chance to invest in our capacity.

 

 

I'm not even thinking about taking up China. My worry is now at pak front itself. Long range strikes from within the border using Su57 will suffice to blow away their Air force, which is their strongest wing,
We're in no position to take Chinese AF at the moment, IAF is our weakest front. I'm not sure what's going on with AMCA and whether it's going to be successful or may end up another "Tejas". But, atleast that will re-start our RnD, eventually we will be able to get the acceleration. Decades of apathy against RnD is now showing it's impact.

India need to bring in massive drones in the game as well. Drones which can swarm in thousands and block the AD of enemy. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

And btw drdo ghatak has achieved a rcs of around 0.01. They are looking to reduce it to 0.001.

 

It should be noted that unmanned fighters the rcs is much easier to lower than traditional fighter jets. But they have limitations in range and payload.

Ghatak UCAV can seriously fill some massive gaps in terms of aerial shortcomings.

If the choice is between Su57 and Ghatak... Ghatak is straightforward logical choice until AMCA comes up. MoD and DRDO Baboons should wake up seriously now.

 

But from what I think Op Sindoor demonstrated that for Pakistan front we can rely on long range strikes (for now) that's why there is some temptation for Su57.

I believe 2-3 squadrons off the shelf are enough there is no need for domestic production and spending further on it as costs would increase significantly like it went with MKI.

 

[G_B_]

You can have both...see on current projections indian defence budget will more than  double in next 10 years.

 

I think there is merit in assembling the af51 engine. Which is why i said 40 to 50 su57 with tot for 5 to 6 billion is fair. But if russians want 10 billion+ then walk away.

 

The key to ghatak remains the kaveri engine. Pump in 5 to 6 billion into kaveri and even if it fails for tejas it will work for ghatak varients.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

10 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Ghatak UCAV can seriously fill some massive gaps in terms of aerial shortcomings.

If the choice is between Su57 and Ghatak... Ghatak is straightforward logical choice until AMCA comes up. MoD and DRDO Baboons should wake up seriously now.

 

But from what I think Op Sindoor demonstrated that for Pakistan front we can rely on long range strikes (for now) that's why there is some temptation for Su57.

I believe 2-3 squadrons off the shelf are enough there is no need for domestic production and spending further on it as costs would increase significantly like it went with MKI.

 

AMCA isn't seeing the light since 2040 if it goes to HAL. Unless, we bring in the pvt partners.
Last I heard, for the prototype development, L&T, Godrej, Adani, TASL all have submitted their bids. Hope the contract is awarded fairly. 
Along with Su-57, if Russia is offering S-70 Okhotnik as well, I would say go for it. Those UCAV's will have higher payload and faster speed than Ghatak UCAV.

[Lone Wolf]

58 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

AMCA isn't seeing the light since 2040 if it goes to HAL. Unless, we bring in the pvt partners.
Last I heard, for the prototype development, L&T, Godrej, Adani, TASL all have submitted their bids. Hope the contract is awarded fairly. 
Along with Su-57, if Russia is offering S-70 Okhotnik as well, I would say go for it. Those UCAV's will have higher payload and faster speed than Ghatak UCAV.

In favour of 2-3 Squadrons of Su57 off shelf.  No domestic production obviously and Ruskies sucking us dry.   It isn't stealth and won't be useful against J35 nor J20.  Just a short term fix for stand off deep strikes strikes into Pakistan.   1st batch arrival should be as soon as 2029-30.

 

 Provided we escape CAATSA and there is no hindrance to Tejas Mk1a and Mk2.

 

Focus on more Rafales and both Tejas platforms.  No need for Russian UCAVs, no more imports when domestic options are available.  No need to fund Russian MIC.

 

Don't want to see Ghatak getting killed when we are so close.

 

 

 

 

[G_B_]

Do russians have capacity off the shelf? With a war in ukraine.

 

The su57 will become an admiral groshkov.

 

 

 

[G_B_]

And see russia are in a spot. They need investment in their air power. But dont have production capacity. Tge mig31k + kinzhel would have won the war if not for there bejng only a handul. Russia does not have capacity to produce mig31k in numbers.

 

With su57 sale they are happy to get investment in for su57 and su75 programs. This is also a huge political win if india buys su57. The later is more important to putin.

 

But if india buy su57 then trump might stall ge engine for tejas. The way i see it india should extend mki ptoduction to super sukhoi standard for 24 jets. That will stay under the radar and release funds to russia. 

 

Get enough engines from ge then make call on su57. 

 

Wait what happens in us mid terms. Pak wont be getting j20 for another 2 to 3 years. If i am china i dont think given bromance between munir n trump i would want my secrets to be given to the enemy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

28 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Do russians have capacity off the shelf? With a war in ukraine.

 

The su57 will become an admiral groshkov.

 

 

 

I mean earliest we can get a hold on Su57 is by 2031 (perhaps) if we are lucky.   Can Putin promise that deliveries won't get affected even due to Ukraine war?  S400 has already seen 4 year delay now.   Russians are highly unreliable when it comes to on time delivery.

 

But if MoD and Jernails are pushing for it then nothing can stop it.

Blowback has already been immense on Su57 from media and defence analysts.

 

Edited October 5, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[G_B_]

Cut a deal for su30mki,12 a year. Tejas should be 16 a year.

 

Rafale m deliveries for navy should start next year.

 

So while not upgrade on quality atleast you have 25 to 30 jets coming in per year.

 

 

[ravishingravi]

Interesting thing about this build up is that it seems largely voluntary. Or maybe Pakistan build on Sir Creek. Or the threat on Adani and Ambani. 

 

Either ways. Seems like we are heading for showdown. And India wants it this time. 

[Lone Wolf]

35 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

Interesting thing about this build up is that it seems largely voluntary. Or maybe Pakistan build on Sir Creek. Or the threat on Adani and Ambani. 

 

Either ways. Seems like we are heading for showdown. And India wants it this time. 

Heard they are trying to build infrastructure of a possible armed Drones facility.

I don't think we will retaliate unless provoked but will respond with quid pro quo.

 

Though I wish Munir is stupid enough to try this.  He will likely act on US permission though.

Edited October 5, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[ravishingravi]

 

[rangeelaraja]

A loitering munitions / drone facility in sir creek area could wreck havoc at the Jamnagar refinery ( which may be equipped with air defense capabilties for missiles and not drones ).

 

Attack is the best defense against this. The Jamnagar facility is a crown jewel for India - possibly the most modern refinery in the world that can process crude from any part of the world. 

 

Cannot be allowed to be sitting ducks.

[Gollum]

 

[rangeelaraja]

6 hours ago, Gollum said:

 

 

 

This bastard is a snake.  He recently visited India and used to sweet talk India so much that even Indian nationalists would blush.

This mofos conduct proves yet again - never ever trust a Pakistani. NEVER.

 

Edited October 6, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

This bastard is a snake.  He recently visited India and used to sweet talk India so much that even Indian nationalists would blush.

 

Turned out that ISI/ Pak has pulled him to their side.  He is seen as close to the DJT administration and has been pivotal in brining Munir close to the WH.

 

This mofos conduct proves yet again - never ever trust a Pakistani. NEVER.