Is India Truly the 2nd Greatest Cricket Nation of all time after Australia? Comparing Performances in major tournaments & overall stats - what is a fair stack ranking ?

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Not really.

 

Like England, they have a lots of guys with great averages from the 1940s to the 1960s but then those guys made their runs beating up hapless India, Pakistan, NZ teams. They started playing earlier and also played a lot more matches.

 

For example check out Everton Weekes.

 

vs Aus/Eng - 43

vs Ind/NZ/Pak - 83.72

 

Clyde Walcott

 

vs Aus/Eng - 49.04

vs Ind/NZ/Pak - 74.65

 

Frank Worell

 

vs Aus/Eng - 45.26

vs Ind/NZ - 68.78

 

They are all good players but they also had the advantage of playing in the early era when there were only two other good teams and boosted their stats that way to 50+ ATG territory. Easier to average 50+ when the other teams are weak.

 

I would say post 1970s it is neck and neck. They have Sobers, Richards, Lara while India has Gavaskar, Sachin, Dravid. Then good second tiers for both teams.

 

Of course India have Gill, Pant, Jaiswal who will at least end up as very good if not ATG. Even likes of Jurel can end up as good. 

 

WI will prolly never produce a great test batsman ever again.

If you nitpick stats, even Gavaskar will fall short, he statpadded like crazy against Packer rejects but averaged in early 30s once first choice Aus and WI bowlers were back. 

 

Also can't dismiss old era players, even in other sports, Pele, Laver, Margaret Court, Muhammad Ali, Bobby Fischer are still in GOAT conversation despite plying their trade in 60s (and early 70s) when competition wasn't as intense as today. 

 

WI batting legacy is probably even better than Australia's, never mind India. This I came to terms with in a thread here where we were making AT XIs of all teams.

 

When it came to WI, we were spoilt for choice:

 

Openers: Greenidge, Haynes, Gayle, Conrad Hunte, Roy Fredericks

 

Middle Order: George Headley aka Black Bradman, 3 Ws, Kanhai, Viv, Sobers, Lloyd, Lawrence Rowe, Seymour Nurse, Kalli, Richie Richardson, Lara, Chanderpaul

 

With such riches, even their 3rd XI will hold its own against the best XIs of many countries.

 

Of course in due course of time, India will throw up more names in the ATG/GOAT mix, while WI fades away. But take nothing away from what those tiny islands have given to the world of cricket especially in the 20th century.  

[Gollum]

World was deprived of peak RSA due to apartheid. Otherwise they were one side that would have matched or even surpassed WI in that era. As was clearly visible in WSC and county, both of which were taken very seriously by top players then. Someone like Procter made Imran, Kapil, Botham look second tier....and Clive Rice was at least as good as them. Garth Le Roux was obviously in the McGrath/Ambrose class....Barry Richards the greatest opener of all time (even his prowess against spin on turners was certified by Bedi), and Graeme Pollock another GOAT tier batsman. 

 

RSA is that country which was shunned by world cricket for 20+ years, and still came back as the 2nd best team in the 90s. Any other country banned for 20+ years would have found it very tough to compete afterwards. 

 

Graeme Smith (c)

Barry Richards

Graeme Pollock

Kallis

ABDV

Procter

de Kock (wk)

Le Roux

Rabada (Shaun Pollock, Clive Rice narrowly miss out)

Steyn

Donald

 

As lethal as the best XIs of Aus and WI. Only lack of spinner is a concern, WI have Lance Gibbs, maybe one day Maharaj will be in conversation. 

 

Come to think of it, Gilly and Shane Warne are two unique guys for Aus who give them an edge over other sides. 

Edited October 15, 2025 by Gollum

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

World was deprived of peak RSA due to apartheid. Otherwise they were one side that would have matched or even surpassed WI in that era. As was clearly visible in WSC and county, both of which were taken very seriously by top players then. Someone like Procter made Imran, Kapil, Botham look second tier....and Clive Rice was at least as good as them. Garth Le Roux was obviously in the McGrath/Ambrose class....Barry Richards the greatest opener of all time (even his prowess against spin on turners was certified by Bedi), and Graeme Pollock another GOAT tier batsman. 

 

RSA is that country which was shunned by world cricket for 20+ years, and still came back as the 2nd best team in the 90s. Any other country banned for 20+ years would have found it very tough to compete afterwards. 

 

Graeme Smith (c)

Barry Richards

Graeme Pollock

Kallis

ABDV

Procter

de Kock (wk)

Le Roux

Rabada (Shaun Pollock, Clive Rice narrowly miss out)

Steyn

Donald

 

As lethal as the best XIs of Aus and WI. Only lack of spinner is a concern, WI have Lance Gibbs, maybe one day Maharaj will be in conversation. 

 

Come to think of it, Gilly and Shane Warne are two unique guys for Aus who give them an edge over other sides. 

I think with Jaiswal and Pant Indian batting will be as good as any. And if Gill outperforms Kohli it will be even stronger.

 

Plus Jadeja-Ashwin prolly make them unbeatable in Asia.

 

Pace bowlers there is a deficit but like the Vishy effect we will see the Bumrah effect.

[vvvslaxman]

Missing components

 

Tests  -  Pace bowling back ups, atleast one swing bowler.

ODIs - Finishers, power hitting spin all rounder, death bowler

T20s - FInishers, leg spinner

[Gollum]

15 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

I think with Jaiswal and Pant Indian batting will be as good as any. And if Gill outperforms Kohli it will be even stronger.

 

Plus Jadeja-Ashwin prolly make them unbeatable in Asia.

 

Pace bowlers there is a deficit but like the Vishy effect we will see the Bumrah effect.

Eventually we will get there, inevitable. Just hope we don't lose the fast bowling culture, need more visionaries like Kohli/Shastri in leadership positions.....Rohit/Dravid took us backwards by sidelining genuine pacers. 

 

Australia is the only roadblock because they find ways to be competitive in every era, won a WC even in their weakest era (80s). 

[putrevus]

19 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Overall picture is overall picture.

 

And overall they have a W/L ratio lower than India.

 

Their peak might have be higher but we are comparing overall.

 

Kohli has the highest peak of any Indian batsman ever (and greater than many other ATGs as well). Is he better than Sachin? Gavaskar?

 

The spinners India have produced (who have dominated them at home) vs what they have produced is also no contest.

 

Plus India have produced way more ATG/good batsmen than them and the pipeline is not slowing down while they make do with 20 averaging batsman.

 

And Australia in 80s were not that strong. A weak Indian team drew to series there. West Indies did not win any of the WCs that decade nor the WCC. That is a fact.

 

 

How many WCs India won? West Indies has produced better batsman and better fast bowlers. Spinners India might have edge but WI produced  Lance Gibbs ,  Sonny Ramdhin who  were very good spinners.

 

Indian team was very good till 1987 world cup especially away from home. As they had lot of allrounders who could bowl seam bowling.They beat England in England and should have beaten Australia in 1985 if not for useless Sunny and Srikant refusing to chase 120 odd.

 

Indian best fast bowler in history huffs and puffs playing single test series and needs rest every other test. WI produced insane amount of fast bowlers who terrorized batsmen for two plus decades.

 

There is no comparsion about the sustained greatness of WI or India. West Indies dominated cricketing world. 1983 WI team still would be the strongest team in history of cricket.

 

FYI

Yes Kohli in his peak was better than Sachin in tests.Sachin was more consistent for longer period .So was Gavaskar who hardly played any role in winning test or series always playing for draws.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2025 by putrevus

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

How many WCs India won? West Indies has produced better batsman and better fast bowlers. Spinners India might have edge but WI produced  Lance Gibbs ,  Sonny Ramdhin who  were very good spinners.

 

Indian team was very good till 1987 world cup especially away from home. As they had lot of allrounders who could bowl seam bowling.They beat England in England and should have beaten Australia in 1985 if not for useless Sunny and Srikant refusing to chase 120 odd.

 

Indian best fast bowler in history huffs and puffs playing single test series and needs rest every other test. WI produced insane amount of fast bowlers who terrorized batsmen for two plus decades.

 

There is no comparsion about the sustained greatness of WI or India. West Indies dominated cricketing world. 1983 WI team still would be the strongest team in history of cricket.

 

FYI

Yes Kohli in his peak was better than Sachin in tests.Sachin was more consistent for longer period .So was Gavaskar who hardly played any role in winning test or series always playing for draws.

 

 

India has won two ODI WCs, same as WI.

 

Plus more CTs.

 

Like I said, overall is overall.

 

Not denying they were great when they were great. But overall India is ahead. Their mediocrity over the last two decades cannot be wished away.

 

[Ultimate_Game]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

FYI

Yes Kohli in his peak was better than Sachin in tests.Sachin was more consistent for longer period .So was Gavaskar who hardly played any role in winning test or series always playing for draws.

 

 

 

 

Look at the delusion of this Kohli fanboy. Now Kohli was greater than Tendulkar at his peak and Gavaskar hardly played any role in winning Tests or series 

 

This coming from a fan of a player who has had lesser impact than Shardul Thakur away from home and in fact has only dragged the team down. Kohli hasn't had one innings AWAY which led to an Indian win or where he was the difference between the teams.

 

Likes of Pant, Jadeja, Bumrah, Shami, Shardul Thakur were the real heroes for us. In fact even Mayank Agarwal had a higher impact AWAy than the so called King who was better than Tendulkar and Gavaskar 

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

 

Look at the delusion of this Kohli fanboy. Now Kohli was greater than Tendulkar at his peak and Gavaskar hardly played any role in winning Tests or series 

 

This coming from a fan of a player who has had lesser impact than Shardul Thakur away from home and in fact has only dragged the team down. Kohli hasn't had one innings AWAY which led to an Indian win or where he was the difference between the teams.

 

Likes of Pant, Jadeja, Bumrah, Shami, Shardul Thakur were the real heroes for us. In fact even Mayank Agarwal had a higher impact AWAy than the so called King who was better than Tendulkar and Gavaskar 

 

If you send  negative impact, positive impact, catch drops everything into a tool called   Impact meter output will be negative.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

If you send  negative impact, positive impact, catch drops everything into a tool called   Impact meter output will be negative.

 

Even without dropped catches and sitters he was responsible for dragging us down. Being the player with highest dropped catches (around 50) was cherry on top.

[Vilander]

There is greatest ( Australia )

 

 

Then rest. 

 

India with more population, more money, more everything than rest of cricketing world put together should have three teams better than Australia on a par performance. 2 teams on poor performance. 1 team for pathetic performance. Since India is worse than Aus, we can conclude Indians sucks donkey balls in cricket. And also it's a malnourishment problem. Cheers. 

 

[vvvslaxman]

India needs someone like these guys for ODis. World domination will continue

 

 

 

[deathmonger]

52 minutes ago, Vilander said:

There is greatest ( Australia )

 

 

Then rest. 

 

India with more population, more money, more everything than rest of cricketing world put together should have three teams better than Australia on a par performance. 2 teams on poor performance. 1 team for pathetic performance. Since India is worse than Aus, we can conclude Indians sucks donkey balls in cricket. And also it's a malnourishment problem. Cheers. 

 

Only in recent times though and even then not per capita wise.

[Ultimate_Game]

50 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

India needs someone like these guys for ODis. World domination will continue

 

 

 

 

We have likes of Jaiswal, Iyer, Rinku and Tilak all set to come in but can't due to the oldies holding on to their spots and selectors not doing their jobs.