Indian Defense Updates

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Submarine problem is acknowledged. The push for indigenous capability has slow things down, but thats bound to happen. We have received 80% or more indigenizations with surface warships...underwater is where we are stuck.

 

Recently Moscow has again offered to upgrade the 6 Sindhughosh class submarines, but Navy is yet to confirm on it. 

 

I dont think Netra mk2 will take that much time, Netra mk1a will start deliveries by 2026-27 and probably end by 2029-30. Post which Netra mk2 will begin by 2031 and end by 2034-35.

 

Problem is though the funds, we are not increasing the Defence budget %...which is still stuck to 1.3-1.5%....we have to make it atleast 2.5%...while with our increase in economy, that 1.5% number will increase. But still, that rate of increase is lot slower.

 

Thankfully, our exports have increased now...from mere 600 cr in 2014 to 25000 in 2025 with target of 50k CR by 2030. Increase in exports will motivate and bring in more funds.

Problem is we have slept an entire decade on modernisation allowing Enemies like Chinks to surge far ahead and allowing Pooks to close the gap in several critical areas.  They moved ahead in AWACS and SPH guns.  They have an edge in BVR since 2008 thanks to US.. and we all know we are still struggling there.

 

Submarine pushback is making headlines coz of Pook's strengthening Submarine fleet and reports of Turks supplying them with state of the art VLS tech in coming years.. along with setting up Drone manufacturing bases.

 

The day first J35 lands in Pookland.. entire media will be after IAF and MoD too.  That's how things work in India unfortunately.

 

The Aman ki Aasha tamasha and Buddha ka desh churan has hurt us in the immediate.

Edited December 19, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[G_B_]

Ok I was busy so did not have time for a long post

 

(a) As noted before, the Indian submarine program is shrouded in secrecy. According to many accounts, India has been spending a significant amount of money on SSBNs, with a focus on a 190 to 200 MW reactor. That is not called "sleeping". A jump in technology costs money and time. Pak have no such program. Neither do they have the equivalent of a K4 or K5. A highly untested Chinese engine powers their submarines. The Chinese themselves use non chinese engines. You can have all the other tech in the world. The core of those subs is highly suspect.

 

(b) SPH guns, what exactly is the K9 Vajra program then? Lol where is the gap? We should be having around 500 of these within the decade. I think we are sititng on 100+

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

23 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Ok I was busy so did not have time for a long post

 

(a) As noted before, the Indian submarine program is shrouded in secrecy. According to many accounts, India has been spending a significant amount of money on SSBNs, with a focus on a 190 to 200 MW reactor. That is not called "sleeping". A jump in technology costs money and time. Pak have no such program. Neither do they have the equivalent of a K4 or K5. A highly untested Chinese engine powers their submarines. The Chinese themselves use non chinese engines. You can have all the other tech in the world. The core of those subs is highly suspect.

 

(b) SPH guns, what exactly is the K9 Vajra program then? Lol where is the gap? We should be having around 500 of these within the decade. I think we are sititng on 100+

 

I think, problem is with our information warfare.

We are indeed doing tremendous amount of work in drone warfare, which most of us arent aware of. Our ballistic missile tech is top notch and even our cruise missiles are making waves.

 

But With so much visibility these days, lowering IAF squadrons, lack of long range BVRs and the slow speed of HAL is discussed on every YouTube channel and on "X". Journalists like Shiv Aroor, Maj Gaurav Arya, Air Chief Sanjeev Kapoor all have spoken about this.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

SPH guns, what exactly is the K9 Vajra program then? Lol where is the gap? We should be having around 500 of these within the decade. I think we are sititng on 100+

 

 

Pooks have as of yet 662 sph guns to India's 100K9 korean made SPH.

100 more have been ordered though.

Reckon this news made waves post OP Sindoor and there was push towards Kalyani but nothing came out of it yet.

 

Edited December 19, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

Pak have no such program. Neither do they have the equivalent of a K4 or K5. A highly untested Chinese engine powers their submarines. The Chinese themselves use non chinese engines. You can have all the other tech in the world. The core of those subs is highly suspect.

K4 isn't yet operational per se.. although it is obviously Chinese centric.

K5 is in development stage.

 

Pooks are supposed to get yj -18 or yj 82 ashm for its Hangor class.

 

Indian Navy's Barak-8/LRSAM have a decent chance to defend against Pakistan's P282 (Smash) missile, if the MF-STAR equipped ships are networked in JTC mode. @singhvivek141

Though current IN ships have no kinetic defense against this type of PLAN ASBM (most probably YJ-20, 7-8 mach)

 

Edited December 19, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[diga]

Taiwan is getting HIMARS rocket system.. how does it compare to S-400 or Akash ? 

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, diga said:

Taiwan is getting HIMARS rocket system.. how does it compare to S-400 or Akash ? 

HIMARS is a MBRL,.. meant for a barrage strike.

S400 is a SAM (surface to air missile) system like Akash.. completely different role and equipment 

 

Mulla Munira in America begged for HIMARS system to Trump when he visited America.

Edited December 19, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

Taiwanese would need 300 km ATACMS HIMArS variants in sizeable numbers to prevent an amphibious landing of Vast Chinki fleet.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

But With so much visibility these days, lowering IAF squadrons, lack of long range BVRs and the slow speed of HAL

Imo F35s will surely come as part of a bribe for a trade deal and would likely be stationed along A&N islands far away from S400 and Russian systems.  Chinese would be alarmed obviously 

 

Both GE 404 and 414 will come in parallel.  Only way to save Tejas program.

This is the theory that's going around in Indian defence analysts as to why Su57 has been discarded 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Vk1]

On 12/11/2025 at 3:47 AM, G_B_ said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2025/12/10/china-will-destroy-us-military-fight-over-taiwan/

 

Sensationalist headline but its the way global warfare is moving.

 

Missiles, air defences drones...

 

Our 1 million + soldiers at this point are simply resource sponges

 

 

Its 80-20 now I suppose. 80% resources should be spent on machines.

[LordPrabhzy]

Ops reverse 1971 is needed- need to bomb Bangladesh into the stone ages.. thankless pigs, should have annexed an area in 1971 to keep all Hindus under protection and let the others be continued to be occupied under Pakistan.. they deserved it. 

Edited December 19, 2025 by LordPrabhzy

[ravishingravi]

Bong / Jat / Rajput/ Gujjar + M = Nuclear. 

 

In fact those, those converted regions have been the sourde of pain the most for india. 

[G_B_]

7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think, problem is with our information warfare.

We are indeed doing tremendous amount of work in drone warfare, which most of us arent aware of. Our ballistic missile tech is top notch and even our cruise missiles are making waves.

 

But With so much visibility these days, lowering IAF squadrons, lack of long range BVRs and the slow speed of HAL is discussed on every YouTube channel and on "X". Journalists like Shiv Aroor, Maj Gaurav Arya, Air Chief Sanjeev Kapoor all have spoken about this.

 

 

 

 

See if you get a sixth arihant class submarine then you know our ssbn has been delayed. That is the critical piece or supply line india wants to keep hot.

 

Arihant class was meant to be a bridge to ssbn. It is noisy and cannot operate on its own. I.e it needs surface bases ships to provide is a santuary to excute a launch. It will operate 500km from the indian coast.

[G_B_]

7 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

K4 isn't yet operational per se.. although it is obviously Chinese centric.

K5 is in development stage.

 

Pooks are supposed to get yj -18 or yj 82 ashm for its Hangor class.

 

Indian Navy's Barak-8/LRSAM have a decent chance to defend against Pakistan's P282 (Smash) missile, if the MF-STAR equipped ships are networked in JTC mode. @singhvivek141

Though current IN ships have no kinetic defense against this type of PLAN ASBM (most probably YJ-20, 7-8 mach)

 

 

Again, nobody really knows real status of k4 or k5. Least of all people commenting on a cricket forum. India will always underplay its capacity and what has been achieved.

 

We had a failure in gauging the bvr range of p15. Pakistan failed to guage the reach and impact of brahmos. Most drdo figures, especially on the missle front are understated.

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

India will always underplay its capacity and what has been achieved

That's pretty much normal for every major power.

Chinese too won't ever show the extent of nuclear capable hypersonic Missiles on their nuclear attack subs.

 

Pooks are exposed coz they practically develop nothing indigenously but they do get hold of both Western and Chinese tech without spending much.

For what it's worth they spend their little  defence budget very judiciously.

[G_B_]

Lol china and russia massively overplay capability. Typical of communist militaries. This is true of the su57 and j35.

 

So called beast j20 engine was struggling in the thin himalayan air. Was bested by mig29 in the recent skirmish 

[singhvivek141]

7 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Imo F35s will surely come as part of a bribe for a trade deal and would likely be stationed along A&N islands far away from S400 and Russian systems.  Chinese would be alarmed obviously 

 

Both GE 404 and 414 will come in parallel.  Only way to save Tejas program.

This is the theory that's going around in Indian defence analysts as to why Su57 has been discarded 

 

 

 

 

 

F35s wont come.

I am pretty sure thats not gonna happen.

 

Yeah, F404 is a problem...and GE is purposefully delaying the deliveries coz US wants to use the leverage against us. The deal with Safran has irked them even more. Safran has recently opened a commercial engine maintenance facility in Hyderabad. 

 

[singhvivek141]

37 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

That's pretty much normal for every major power.

Chinese too won't ever show the extent of nuclear capable hypersonic Missiles on their nuclear attack subs.

 

Pooks are exposed coz they practically develop nothing indigenously but they do get hold of both Western and Chinese tech without spending much.

For what it's worth they spend their little  defence budget very judiciously.

 

Pooks spend their defence budget unchallenged. Due to their military controlled authoritarian govt...no one will raise even a finger.

 

Secondly, both US and China are aligned on one thing...to stop India. They dont see each other eye to eye, but they want India to remain a growing market forever and not a manufacturer. Thats why I am not fond of French as well...they might have a quasi independent policy, but ultimately they too are under the thumb of US.

 

Fear of CAATSA and the greed of beaurocrats is probably not allowing us to go ahead. Else, we should have gone with Su57, Su75 and should have partnered with Mig 41 as well. Keep the workforce engaged instead of making them ideal. 

 

If we can lease Nuclear submarines from Russia..whats stopping us the sign the deal with them and work together as a common unit. West isnt our friend and they'll bite us at the first opportunity. 

[singhvivek141]

36 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Lol china and russia massively overplay capability. Typical of communist militaries. This is true of the su57 and j35.

 

So called beast j20 engine was struggling in the thin himalayan air. Was bested by mig29 in the recent skirmish 

Russia Soviet era jets are criminally underrated IMO.

Mig 21, Su 27, Su 35, Mig 27, Mig 29...all were excellent and capable aircrafts. Su30MKI is a formidable aircraft and for all purposes even Su57 is an extremely powerful jet.

 

Russian jets struggle with engine life...but their payload and ranges are massive. The amount of hard points they carry is amazing. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

Lol china and russia massively overplay capability. Typical of communist militaries. This is true of the su57 and j35.

 

So called beast j20 engine was struggling in the thin himalayan air. Was bested by mig29 in the recent skirmish 

Lol Communist militaries were the standard post WW2 when it came to mass production.

 

Soviets were literally super efficient in small arms,  their tanks dominated US made tanks for decades, armoured vehicles, BMPs, integrated ATGMS, not to mention artillery and SPG's were world beaters.

 

Western equipment later on surged ahead coz of better electronics and digitally better fire control systems.

 

The copium you are on about Chinese MIC has already been busted by Western analysts themselves.

Iteration after iteration plus corporate espionage has got China close  to the top of the stack.

That's manufacturing lesson 101.