Ultimate_Game Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Enough leeway given to him and enough excuses made. The guy is as shyte as they come. Bowling full tosses in earlier matches and was excused away. Couldn't find line & length, it was all due to "inexperience" and "lack of practice". At the end of the day you have to take a hard look at him and say he doesn't have it in him to get to the next level. All of the hard work by Rinku and other bowlers undone by this piece of shyte who's absolutely useless under any sort of pressure. All he had to do was bowl a half-decent over, not even a miracle. But couldn't land even one delivery where it needed to be. Lost the match when opponents were 7 wkts down and he gave freebies to likes of Shami and Himmat Singh! Imagine him against proper hitters at intl level. People may see "potential" in him which they've been seeing since ages. But to me he's useless and adds no value. We've plenty of options like Mohsin, Vaibhav, Prince, Ashok Sharma etc. He can't nail a yorker and bowls juicy high full tosses or length deliveries. He has nothing else. Time to end this hype as trundlers like Khaleel are actually better than him. And it's not as if he's bowling fast like Archer and even likes of Shami can hit him around. BacktoCricaddict, Texan and velu 1 1 1
maniac Posted April 26 Posted April 26 (edited) Will give him benefit of doubt. He has genuine pace: I just don’t mean speedometer hitting 140, he has that zip. Also I have seen him be good at the death in the past . Happens, bad day, he didn’t overstep. He bowled beamers which happens when you are trying to hit yorker length at his high pace. Edited April 26 by maniac Lord and express bowling 2
Ultimate_Game Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 5 minutes ago, maniac said: Will give him benefit of doubt. He has genuine pace: I just don’t mean speedometer hitting 140, he has that zip. Also I have seen him be good at the death in the past . Happens, bad day, he didn’t overstep. He bowled beamers which happens when you are trying to hit yorker length at his high pace. Naah man, even in previous matches he was bowling plenty of full tosses. And his pace is over-rated as batters don't find him difficult to face. Some bowlers come on quickly and are difficult to face even when they bowl around 140 and some are useless even when they hit 150 (Mohd Sami). Kartik is like that. He has no control over his line & length and if he's flustered defending 17 against Shami, he isn't cut out for cricket at higher level. And it's not as if he's a youngster. He has been playing for a long time now and yet this is what we see. It's as if he's bowling for the first time and can't handle any pressure. That's a huge red flag and I would rather go with a less talented player who can handle pressure than someone who disintegrates at the hint of pressure. maniac 1
maniac Posted April 26 Posted April 26 @Ultimate_Game let’s hope for the best. Among 140 prospects, he has one of the highest rating on my eye test scale tapandrun 1
Ultimate_Game Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 (edited) 10 minutes ago, maniac said: @Ultimate_Game let’s hope for the best. Among 140 prospects, he has one of the highest rating on my eye test scale For me Mohsin is heads and shoulders over everyone else. After that I liked Ashok Sharma who hit 150+. Even Prince Yadav and Vaibhav have been decent in patches. Kartik doesn't come anywhere close to making it in intls. Hell, even Deshpande looks better than him! Edited April 26 by Ultimate_Game Texan 1
maniac Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Just now, Ultimate_Game said: For me Mohsin is heads and shoulders over everyone else. After that I liked the Sharma guy who hit 150+. Even Prince Yadav and Vaibhav have been decent in patches. Kartik doesn't come anywhere close to making it in intls. Hell, even Deshpande looks better than him! There is no impact player rule in internationals and you can’t hide him in the field. Pressure handling also is fitness, he might have a good first spell, however in international high pressure game he will be smacked around if he huffs and puffs in 2nd spell. Kinda like Natarajan. There is ok for IPL and then there is international standard. This Yash Dayal, Moshin types are excellent for IPL but not for international cricket. Maybe some low tier bilaterals. That’s about it.
Texan Posted April 26 Posted April 26 21 minutes ago, maniac said: Will give him benefit of doubt. He has genuine pace: I just don’t mean speedometer hitting 140, he has that zip. Also I have seen him be good at the death in the past . Happens, bad day, he didn’t overstep. He bowled beamers which happens when you are trying to hit yorker length at his high pace. He has played 6 IPL seasons now. He is not some newcomer. We have other options: Mohsin, Prince, Mayank (if fully fit) are much better. Ashok has shown promise and needs to be nurtured. Tyagi is brainless and cannot freaking even land the ball on the pitch when needed. We are not talking about some good hitter smashing him. It was Shami of all people smashing him. That is embarrassing. Ultimate_Game 1
Ultimate_Game Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, maniac said: There is no impact player rule in internationals and you can’t hide him in the field. Pressure handling also is fitness, he might have a good first spell, however in international high pressure game he will be smacked around if he huffs and puffs in 2nd spell. Kinda like Natarajan. There is ok for IPL and then there is international standard. This Yash Dayal, Moshin types are excellent for IPL but not for international cricket. Maybe some low tier bilaterals. That’s about it. There's a huge difference between Yash Dayal and Mohsin Khan. Check out their stats and you'll see the difference. Mohsin has a SR of 16 in IPL! This is outstanding and nobody even comes close to that! I mean check out his IPL stats below... That's only IPL, not even the regular domestic T20s. And if you can bowl a maiden to Sooryavanshi, you've something special. As for being one dimensional there're spots for 3 specialist bowlers. If likes of Chahal, Kuldeep, Siraj, Varun C can take those spots, Mohsin isn't worse than them. If he's good enough to get the Top 3 bowling spots, he should get in. At the moment after Bumrah, Mohsin is the next best. He has a knack for taking wkts and has an amazing ER. Deserves to play intl cricket. Texan and Vk1 1 1
Texan Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Just watching the over he bowled since I missed it in real time. That guy should not have even been allowed to bowl the rest of that over after those two beamers. It is ridiculous. tweaker, Ultimate_Game, tapandrun and 1 other 4
BacktoCricaddict Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Hierarchy as of today: Mohsin Prince Yadav Ashok Sharma Hussain Tyagi Hinge tweaker, velu, Ultimate_Game and 1 other 4
Ultimate_Game Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Hierarchy as of today: Mohsin Prince Yadav Ashok Sharma Hussain Tyagi Hinge I would add Vaibhav, Khaleel and Deshpande ahead of Tyagi and Hinge. TBH I would remove both of them from the list.
maniac Posted April 26 Posted April 26 2 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Hierarchy as of today: Mohsin Prince Yadav Ashok Sharma Hussain Tyagi Hinge according to my eye test Mayank Tyagi Ashok Prince Kamboj Shakib, Moshin, Mukesh Chaudhary rest of the trundlers , don’t care. tapandrun 1
zen Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Most players cycle through good and bad seasons. IPL teams needs at least 170 Indian players. As long as the players remain in the top 150-170 based on experience, skills, some USP, etc, a team would likely pick them up.
BacktoCricaddict Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Just now, Ultimate_Game said: I would add Vaibhav, Khaleel and Deshpande ahead of Tyagi and Hinge. TBH I would remove both of them from the list. Vaibhav bowled badly in the first couple of matches that I watched this year, so I may be biased. Deshpande is 30+. Khaleel, maybe.
zen Posted April 26 Posted April 26 The issue is in using IPL to become armchair selectors for team India, which takes one no where - you are not even following IPL properly while the opinions get outdated quickly, even changing from season to season. It is basically pointless to engage in such exercises.
BacktoCricaddict Posted April 26 Posted April 26 1 minute ago, zen said: The issue is in using IPL to become armchair selectors for team India, which takes one no where - you are not even following IPL properly while the opinions get outdated quickly, even changing from season to season. It is basically pointless to engage in such exercises. All in good fun. We know our non-expert opinions are not worth much, but it's fun to banter about it. Plus there is always a chance that one of the selectors wanders over here and gets some brilliant idea. Reporter: Mr. Agarkar, why did you pick Kartik Tyagi based on just his IPL performance this year? I mean, even that is spotty. Agarkar: Basically, I thought the same thing. But I asked Claude to get opinions from internet. It found some eye-test analysis by a @maniac and gave a compelling argument for Tyagi. So, I got my eyes tested, rewatched all the IPL videos and now I see it. Big shout-out to Mr. Maniac. Tillu, maniac, tweaker and 3 others 6
Ultimate_Game Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 8 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Vaibhav bowled badly in the first couple of matches that I watched this year, so I may be biased. Deshpande is 30+. Khaleel, maybe. Even then they're better than the current version of Kartik Tyagi. Maybe Tyagi needs to change his bowling action one more time to get better control of line & length.
BacktoCricaddict Posted April 26 Posted April 26 Just now, Ultimate_Game said: Even then they're better than the current version of Kartik Tyagi. Maybe Tyagi needs to change his bowling action one more time to get better control of line & length. Perhaps. But for a fast bowler, age matters, and am looking at next 4-5 yrs. So, however good, anyone 30+ is only a possible short-term solution. express bowling 1
express bowling Posted April 26 Posted April 26 That last over was shyte. But Tyagi is one of the few pacers who can actually swing the ball at 145 to 150 k and not spray it while doing so. This is not a common thing. What our express pacers need to do is play as many domestic cricket games as they can. Then and only then can we judge them objectively. BacktoCricaddict, Mosher, speedster and 2 others 5
zen Posted April 26 Posted April 26 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: All in good fun. We know our non-expert opinions are not worth much, but it's fun to banter about it. Plus there is always a chance that one of the selectors wanders over here and gets some brilliant idea. Reporter: Mr. Agarkar, why did you pick Kartik Tyagi based on just his IPL performance this year? I mean, even that is spotty. Agarkar: Basically, I thought the same thing. But I asked Claude to get opinions from internet. It found some eye-test analysis by a @maniac and gave a compelling argument for Tyagi. So, I got my eyes tested, rewatched all the IPL videos and now I see it. Big shout-out to Mr. Maniac. Yes, in good fun. Now selectors probably uses AI, while relying on trusted sources for inputs. BCCI probably even has teams to do data analysis. A recommendation from someone like a MS can change all equations. Earlier when analysis was relatively scarce maybe analysis and discussions on such forums helped but now that era is gone. There is an overload of info on social media where everyone is putting out an opinion so people have stopped bothering about such discussions. Such discussions are for time pass or for pursing the hobby or for fun! Edited April 26 by zen
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