Tall fast bowlers offer us a little bit more: Shubman Gill

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Not everyone has to be a T20 pacer, especially at the teething phase.

 

 

 

You talked about eye test and not performance or opposition. 

 

Gurnoor is running in better and releasing the ball better than Tyagi of mid 2026. The seam position is good. The ball is getting amazing lift snd carry.    Even if he gets hit in ODIs ( can happen to anyone ) these aspects will remain. 

 

 

 

I disagree about eye test. Kartik tyagi is still better.  He has nice run up like you see with Australians. Gurnoor has shorter strides. 

[vvvslaxman]

Here is take on Kartik Tyagi from Steyn

 

 

[express bowling]

40 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I disagree about eye test. Kartik tyagi is still better.  He has nice run up like you see with Australians. Gurnoor has shorter strides. 

 

 

Tyagi's talent is beyond question and I am a big fan. 

 

But, due to repeated and chronic shin injury and pain, he was forced to change his run up and action multiple times. 

 

He has not become used to his current action yet. 

 

When he becomes used to it, he will be a top pick. Which is why I kept saying " Tyagi of mid 2026 ".

 

We need to think about Gurnoor + Tyagi operating in the near future and not Gurnoor vs Tyagi.

 

And to do that Tyagi must play some FCC and List A.

Edited June 23 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Tyagi's talent is beyond question and I am a big fan. 

 

But, due to repeated and chronic shin injury and pain, he was forced to change his run up and action multiple times. 

 

He has not become used to his current action yet. 

 

When he becomes used to it, he will be a top pick. Which is why I kept saying " Tyagi of 2026 ".

 

We need to think about Gurnoor + Tyagi operating in the near future and not Gurnoor vs Tyagi.

 

And to do that Tyagi must play some FCC and List A.

 

 

If you leave Tyagi to domestic system he will be gone forever.  He needs higher challenges and he has to work directly under Indian senior system not to lose him. Otherwise he is a gone case. In the longer run Kartik Tyagi coming good will be a massive asset. If he doesn't get enough backing he will be lost. His age is perfect. This is the time he gets in to the system and if he picks up injury he can recover , come back and play again. If he starts playing for India at 28 and he gets injured he will be gone forever. His USP is pace. Raw pace bowlers don't have a long career. So gotta make the most use of him.

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

If you leave Tyagi to domestic system he will be gone forever.  He needs higher challenges and he has to work directly under Indian senior system not to lose him. Otherwise he is a gone case. In the longer run Kartik Tyagi coming good will be a massive asset. If he doesn't get enough backing he will be lost. His age is perfect. This is the time he gets in to the system and if he picks up injury he can recover , come back and play again. If he starts playing for India at 28 and he gets injured he will be gone forever. His USP is pace. Raw pace bowlers don't have a long career. So gotta make the most use of him.

 

How can someone, who has hardly played actual 4 day and 50 over matches with his current action, play directly for India in these formats ?

 

His body is not used to bowling 10 overs a day and 20 overs a day.

 

He will either break down or lose confidence .... and then everyone will call for his ouster.

 

Must play some India A type games atleast. And some Ranji Trophy and VHT matches this season. 

 

Does not mean he has to grind in domestic cricket for the next 3 years. Next 1 year is crucial for him. Must play as many FC and List A matches as he can next 12 months. And not wait for the next IPL.

Edited June 23 by express bowling

[singhvivek141]

16 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

If you leave Tyagi to domestic system he will be gone forever.  He needs higher challenges and he has to work directly under Indian senior system not to lose him. Otherwise he is a gone case. In the longer run Kartik Tyagi coming good will be a massive asset. If he doesn't get enough backing he will be lost. His age is perfect. This is the time he gets in to the system and if he picks up injury he can recover , come back and play again. If he starts playing for India at 28 and he gets injured he will be gone forever. His USP is pace. Raw pace bowlers don't have a long career. So gotta make the most use of him.

 

One good thing about the current India setup is that they are ready to reward quicks who are tall and fast.

Harshit break in to India team after playing just 7 FC games, Tyagi too just have to perform this one season. There are already talks about him in IPL. So attention is there already.

 

Just look at Ashok, one season and he is bowling for A team..little bit of push and he will be part of Indian setup. Mayank too lost some time due tp injury, but now pace is back, he didnt bowl wayward as well...bowled proper fest match length. He too needs one more season and he will be a serious contender.

 

If UP isnt giving him an opportunity, move to other state. Go to Himachal or Haryana or Uttarakhand or MP or MH etc...places who want fast bowlers. 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

One good thing about the current India setup is that they are ready to reward quicks who are tall and fast.

Harshit break in to India team after playing just 7 FC games, Tyagi too just have to perform this one season. There are already talks about him in IPL. So attention is there already.

 

Just look at Ashok, one season and he is bowling for A team..little bit of push and he will be part of Indian setup. Mayank too lost some time due tp injury, but now pace is back, he didnt bowl wayward as well...bowled proper fest match length. He too needs one more season and he will be a serious contender.

 

If UP isnt giving him an opportunity, move to other state. Go to Himachal or Haryana or Uttarakhand or MP or MH etc...places who want fast bowlers. 

 

 

But you have to give fast bowling contract to right people . This is the current list.  Akash deep shouldn't be in this as he already played for India and he is in grade C contract . Y ash dhayal is arrested in a POSCO case. Not sure BCCI will wait until get convicted to remove from this. Kaverappa was briefly talked about and not sure where he is now. THen Tushar a low ceiling pacer who can bat a bit. Umran also lost.   This list should have other bowlers like Tyagi.  Players with fast bowling contract gets year-round NCA access. Injury management is critical for raw pace bowlers. I don't think he will be getting otherwise.

• Mayank Yadav
• Akash Deep
• Vijaykumar Vyshak
• Umran Malik
• Yash Dayal
• Vidwath Kaverappa
• Tushar Deshpande

 

[Vk1]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

In India hey struggled. NZ almost hunted down 383 runs. Also Afghanistn batsmen thrashed their fast bowlers.   Also Pakistan also batted well against them. It is only INdia that choked alongwith SA.

these things happen in world cups.Eventually winning it matters and they win it whenever they have strong core of fast bowlers. 

[vvvslaxman]

39 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

these things happen in world cups.Eventually winning it matters and they win it whenever they have strong core of fast bowlers. 

I am just saying they didn't win because of tall fast bowlers. We had Srinath and Venky in 1999. Didn't do zilch. There are many attributes that make Australian team successful. But post 2015 any win they had was purely because of some luck with toss or opposition pointlessly imploded. 2023 Australian team was a terrible team. At  one point they were at bottom of the table. They never looked like a championship team with guys like Labu, smith occupying mdidle order. They had all these bowlers in 2019 too. Didn't really help them much. Mentally stronger England disposed of them.  Austrlaia lost to India and even pakistan in 2019.

Edited June 23 by vvvslaxman

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

But you have to give fast bowling contract to right people . This is the current list.  Akash deep shouldn't be in this as he already played for India and he is in grade C contract . Y ash dhayal is arrested in a POSCO case. Not sure BCCI will wait until get convicted to remove from this. Kaverappa was briefly talked about and not sure where he is now. THen Tushar a low ceiling pacer who can bat a bit. Umran also lost.   This list should have other bowlers like Tyagi.  Players with fast bowling contract gets year-round NCA access. Injury management is critical for raw pace bowlers. I don't think he will be getting otherwise.

• Mayank Yadav
• Akash Deep
• Vijaykumar Vyshak
• Umran Malik
• Yash Dayal
• Vidwath Kaverappa
• Tushar Deshpande

 

 

Vyashak & Deshpande are in 30s

 

Umran is a lost cause

 

Yash...well if he is culprit. Then, game over

 

Kaverappa, he is there..but his pace is in 130s. Kinda similar to Ishwar Pandey (if anyone remembers him).

 

We need to replace them with

Gurnoor, Mayank, Ashok, Tyagi & Eden respectively. Akashdeep is good enough for Tests, atleast for next 2-3 years. Mukesh Chaudhary is another LA.

 

Yudhvir, Kuldeep Sen, Prithviraj Yarra are some names who are inching to 30s but hasnt made their name. 

[Vk1]

10 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I am just saying they didn't win because of tall fast bowlers. We had Srinath and Venky in 1999. Didn't do zilch. There are many attributes that make Australian team successful. But post 2015 any win they had was purely because of some luck with toss or opposition pointlessly imploded. 2023 Australian team was a terrible team. At  one point they were at bottom of the table. They never looked like a championship team with guys like Labu, smith occupying mdidle order. They had all these bowlers in 2019 too. Didn't really help them much. Mentally stronger England disposed of them.  Austrlaia lost to India and even pakistan in 2019.

Once hazlewood got added their trio was always gonna do well. You might be comparing this Oz with 2003-07 ones. Whatever they have achieved in last few years is majorly due to their fast bowling trio. We will see a downward oz team after they retire. It's already happening in bilaterals

[Vk1]

10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

One good thing about the current India setup is that they are ready to reward quicks who are tall and fast.

Harshit break in to India team after playing just 7 FC games, Tyagi too just have to perform this one season. There are already talks about him in IPL. So attention is there already.

 

Just look at Ashok, one season and he is bowling for A team..little bit of push and he will be part of Indian setup. Mayank too lost some time due tp injury, but now pace is back, he didnt bowl wayward as well...bowled proper fest match length. He too needs one more season and he will be a serious contender.

 

If UP isnt giving him an opportunity, move to other state. Go to Himachal or Haryana or Uttarakhand or MP or MH etc...places who want fast bowlers. 

 

This Ashok guy is most impressive for me. He has the skills + fitness ( reminds me of Umesh )

[MechEng]

Tall bowler bowling 150 kph half tracker outside off stump and getting upper cut all the time for sixes is of no use without the bowling acumen.

 

Size matters, but not in cricket.

[Vk1]

6 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Tall bowler bowling 150 kph half tracker outside off stump and getting upper cut all the time for sixes is of no use without the bowling acumen.

 

Size matters, but not in cricket.

A skillful 6'3 will always do better than a slightly more skillful 5'9

[Lone Wolf]

13 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

But you have to give fast bowling contract to right people . This is the current list.  Akash deep shouldn't be in this as he already played for India and he is in grade C contract . Y ash dhayal is arrested in a POSCO case. Not sure BCCI will wait until get convicted to remove from this. Kaverappa was briefly talked about and not sure where he is now. THen Tushar a low ceiling pacer who can bat a bit. Umran also lost.   This list should have other bowlers like Tyagi.  Players with fast bowling contract gets year-round NCA access. Injury management is critical for raw pace bowlers. I don't think he will be getting otherwise.

• Mayank Yadav
• Akash Deep
• Vijaykumar Vyshak
• Umran Malik
• Yash Dayal
• Vidwath Kaverappa
• Tushar Deshpande

 

These are older contracts...I am sure they are going to change these ones as most of them aren't in the scheme of things anymore.

 

Reckon Tyagi Ashok Mayank Yash Thakur Yudhvir maybe even Nabi type guys will be next ones

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

Size matters, but not in cricket.

 

Tell that to .....

 

Garner 6'8"

Ambrose 6'7"

Walsh 6'6"

Starc 6'6"

Croft  6'5"

Bishop 6'5"

McGrath 6'5"

Gillespie 6'5"

Hazlewood 6'5"

Holding 6'4"

Cummins 6'4"

Johnson 6'2"

Lee 6'2"

Roberts 6'2"

 

 

 

The 2 teams, West Indies and Australia, which have viciously dominated test cricket and ODIs for multiple decades ( WI 1976 to 1994, Australia 1994 onwards ) have had only 2 dominant pacers who were less than 6 feet 2 inches. And one of those 2, Marshall, was express pace.

 

 

Edited June 24 by express bowling

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

Tall bowler bowling 150 kph half tracker  is of no use without the bowling acumen.

 

 

Why would team want a pacer without bowling acumen ?

 

What about a tall, 150 k pacer with bowling acumen ?

[Vk1]

you take any sport.. the taller ones will have huge advantage.. south east asians dominated badminton until the arrival of denmark guys or caroline maran. Infact you need extremely gifted players like sachin, messi to attain greatness being short. A carlos brathwaite would not have become cricketer if not for his height. Once we produce tall batters its game over for SENA

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

you take any sport.. the taller ones will have huge advantage.. south east asians dominated badminton until the arrival of denmark guys or caroline maran. Infact you need extremely gifted players like sachin, messi to attain greatness being short. A carlos brathwaite would not have become cricketer if not for his height. Once we produce tall batters its game over for SENA

 

Yes.  In pace bowling, football, hockey etc., taller guys succeed at a lesser skill level. While shorter guys need a higher skill level to reach there. 

 

Ofcourse, some shorter guys are insanely skilful and reach amazing heights. But such guys are not present in every team all the time. 

 

Md.Shami has much higher skills than many Australian and SA pacers. And has pace too. But still averages 27.x in tests. If he were 6'3" instead of 5'9", but with same pace and skills, he would have had a much lower bowling average.

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, MechEng said:

Tall bowler bowling 150 kph half tracker outside off stump and getting upper cut all the time for sixes is of no use without the bowling acumen.

 

Size matters, but not in cricket.

 

So does a 5.5 inch, 125 kph bowling trundler...who keeps serving pies after pies only to be smoked in oblivion on a pitch like Perth. Becoming a butt of joke forever.

 

Cricket acumen is pretty much needed for every bowler.

 

Umesh woukd have been another Bumrah had he been more intelligent.

Ishant could have been another Hazelwood if he had worked with Gillespie earlier instead of waiting for Dhoni to retire.