Isn't Ganguly an EXTREMELY OVERRATED captain ??

[The Outsider]

Excellent balanced post. As a critic of Ganguly, I probably look more at what I have pointed out in bold in your post above. Besides that, I felt he simply din't have the " motivational " ability ( that some of his deluded fans keep raving about) to win India crunch games. We kept gettting humiliated endlessly in the big games. It was so expected. We lost some 20 finals in a row.

Yes, there was something lacking in the Indian team when it came down to nailing a tournament or series abroad. But I would not call it as an indictment of Ganguly's captaincy, but a shortcoming. He along with Wright and the other senior players were very good in taking India out of the rut, but once they were out the team just stagnated. I can never forget how we threw away our wickets in the last innings at Kingston in '02 after Tendulkar fell. A draw would have ensured a drawn series, every man and his dog knew it was going to rain and it was just a matter of being patient. As it happened it started raining during the presentation ceremony and did not stop for a week!

Also his poor temper on the field cost us winning the series Test series in WI in 2002 after taking a lead, ditto in Zimbabwe in 2001. I just hated when he yelled at Srinath. Dhoni on the other hand comes across as a cool cucumber and far shrewder capain , who's street smartness goes way beyond petty tactics like coming late for the toss to frustrate an opposing captain. ( some deluded Ganguly fans think this lead a pi$ of Steve Waugh to make frustrated decisions on the field in THAT series.) . I believe alot that's attributed to his so called greatness as captain..is a bunch of myths. Lame myths.

I am huge fan of the Steve Waugh and Mark Taylor kind of captaincy. Dhoni is in that mould, Ganguly wasn't but that alone does not make Ganguly a poor captain. What he lacked in the "thinking and rationalizing on the feet" department he made up at times with a good team selection, grit, and a never say die attitude. My take on the entire thing is that Wright and Ganguly supported by a group of tremendously talented players with international experience formed a very good core for a very good team.

[patriot]

Thal, You make fair points. But I would still think that Ganguly, din't nearly make most of available rich talent and experience - as results would show. Its ok to point out about good selection et al, but whats the use when you don't make best use of the team selected. Ganguly was a HORRIBLE bowlers captain and quite unimaginative - which is the single biggest reason why despite having the most supreme test batting line up that raked in 450 + for fun almost every other test , we failed to finish off many tests.Just reminded me of how Akmal and that joker Razzaq batted out a whole frickin day for a draw at Mohali, and the weakest ever Pak team to tour India frickin left with a drawn series against on paper one of Indias strongest ever team.....then the Sydney test... I know Dropthiv was to blame partially...but still.

[Lord]

Thal, You make fair points. But I would still think that Ganguly, din't nearly make most of available rich talent and experience - as results would show. Its ok to point out about good selection et al, but whats the use when you don't make best use of the team selected. Ganguly was a HORRIBLE bowlers captain and quite unimaginative - which is the single biggest reason why despite having the most supreme test batting line up that raked in 450 + for fun almost every other test , we failed to finish off many tests.Just reminded me of how Akmal and that joker Razzaq batted out a whole frickin day for a draw at Mohali, and the weakest ever Pak team to tour India frickin left with a drawn series against on paper one of Indias strongest ever team.....then the Sydney test... I know Dropthiv was to blame partially...but still.

no that is not the single biggest reason.biggest reason was that our fast bowlers were crap,so wicket taking was entirely reliant on Kumble n a young Harbhajan.Dhoni has the luxury of two extremely good fast bowlers in Ishant n Zak.Wen Akmal n Razzaq batted out the day,the pitch was not typical 5th day's wicket.it was good to bat on.n Kumble was having an off day perhaps. u mention Sydney test.but ignore Adelaide test where we bowled out Aus for 196 in 2nd innings.Ganguly was captain in that game too

[Bradman99]

He did a good job I think, Dhoni is the man though. He knows what he's doing.

[The Outsider]

Thal, You make fair points. But I would still think that Ganguly, din't nearly make most of available rich talent and experience - as results would show. Its ok to point out about good selection et al, but whats the use when you don't make best use of the team selected. Ganguly was a HORRIBLE bowlers captain and quite unimaginative - which is the single biggest reason why despite having the most supreme test batting line up that raked in 450 + for fun almost every other test , we failed to finish off many tests.Just reminded me of how Akmal and that joker Razzaq batted out a whole frickin day for a draw at Mohali, and the weakest ever Pak team to tour India frickin left with a drawn series against on paper one of Indias strongest ever team.....then the Sydney test... I know Dropthiv was to blame partially...but still.

Don't know if that post was directed at me. I'm not Thal, that's Mr. Wicket. But coming to Ganuly's captaincy of bowlers, I agree he was not very good. In fact I would rate Dravid as a better captain when it came to on field captaincy and using bowlers. Dravid's captaincy in the '04 Mumbai test defending 100 runs against Australia was superb, and also in the low scoring thriller at Kingston in '06. What you've got to realize, though is the resources a captain has. Ganguly invariably had a poor bowling attack to work with making his strategies appear more "defensive" than people would like. If your bowlers are tosh, there is not much a captain can do. Remember how we got hammered for 600+ runs at Karachi under Dravid. Heck forget Ganguly and Dravid, a captain like Steve Waugh with McGrath, Warne, and Gillespie at his disposal one one occasion had to endure not one but 2 300+ partnerships from Dravid-Laxman. Such things happen in cricket.

[MUMBAISKIPPER]

He took India to only 13 test victories, but captained India in 11 matches against minnows like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. 11 of which should have been wins - none of the matches were rain interrupted. while we won all the Bangla matches...we could'nt even whitewash Zimbabwe - even at home. His own batting averaged was a pathetic 37.00 as captain, nor has he at any point of time shown any brilliant tactical ploy ( unless coming late for the toss against Waugh to frustrate him counts). We must have lost countless ODI finals under his captainship. DHoni IMHO, is far and away the greatest captain to have lead India in recent times. His batting avg( as captain) and captaincy record....is toooooooo good.

Yes I agree with you.The reason for Ganguly's success is he had a good team to back him.The likes of Sachin,Dravid,Sehwag,Yuvi,Zaheer,Bhajji,Kumble,Laxman had major contributions in India's victories under his captaincy.A successful captain is not always an outstanding captain.Look at Lloyd and Steve Waugh...they have a great captaincy record coz they had an outstanding team at their disposal.Let's take an example of Ricky Ponting.He did well when he had a good team but now he is struggling. You rate a captain on the basis of strategy-making,man-management,captaincy skills,decision-making ability,etc.On all these fronts,Ganguly was pretty average.At one point of time, he was in the team coz he was the captain and not because of his batting skills. I would say he was quite lucky to represent India for so many years.

[Feed]

Ganguly was the best captain: Srinath HYDERABAD: Former India fast bowler and now ICC match referee Javagal Srinath says that Sourav Ganguly was the best-ever captain he had ever played under since the latter knew what to expect from everyone in the team. ?Sourav was a ... More... Ganguly was the best captain: Srinath Principal Correspondent HYDERABAD: Former India fast bowler and now ICC match referee Javagal Srinath says that Sourav Ganguly was the best-ever captain he had ever played under since the latter knew what to expect from everyone in the team. “Sourav was a truly wonderful captain and donned the role of an intermediary between the players and the selectors to near perfection,” were Srinath’s compliments to the former India captain at a panel discussion ‘Tyrst with sports champions’ organised by FICCI Ladies Organisation (Hyderabad Chapter) and attended by two other sporting celebrities — Pullela Gopi Chand and Mithali Raj — here on Monday. Speaking about leadership qualities, Srinath said that to be a good leader, one has lead himself, know how to conduct himself at various places, and with the players both on and off the field. “I always looked at leaders as being of three different kinds — aggressive ones like Imran Khan, transaction leaders like late Hansie Cronje of South Africa who was the best in getting deals for his players on and off the field, and others who can be called ‘transforming leaders’,” he said. “A captain might be a very good leader but his reputation as captain depends on the team’s performance. Leadership is directly linked to the team’s results. It is important to have a very good team at your disposal,” Srinath, who played in four World Cups, said. Srinath doesn’t believe that aggression alone is the key to successful performances. “You won’t get wickets just by staring down a batsman without actually bowling well. I believe that this kind of aggression is more among those who are uncertain of their place in the squad. What is needed is regulated aggression,” he said. “The Indian Premier League has come to stay. It is a huge success, though it involves only about 100 players featuring in it. But it does bring a Ranji Trophy player one step closer to stardom,” Srinath said. “It is a natural evolution of the game in the right direction and shows a great marketing strategy by the BCCI.” Srinath also says that it is ridiculous to compare a cricketer’s performance with the endorsements they give. “One has to remember that only the best performers get the sponsors. And, all that he spends for an advertisement shoot is 15 days in a year. Srinath is happy that India boasts of one of the best pace attacks in the world. “No doubt, Ishant Sharma is struggling now after a fabulous start. But, he is young and should be back to his best very soon. There is plenty of talent and depth in this Indian bowling attack,” he said. On ball tampering, Srinath did not agree with ex-South African fast bowler Allan Donald’s view that it should be legalised. “It is a crime as per the rules of the game and it should not be encouraged,” he said.

[Gambit]

How many still think Dhoni is better than Ganguly as a test captain?

[Old guy]

NO

[rkt.india]

How many still think Dhoni is better than Ganguly as a test captain?

Both equal with Dhoni having slight edge in regards to more achievements to his name. You cannot solely blame Dhoni for these losses. it was a collective failure, especially our top 5 batsmen.

[Pagalpanti]

Dhoni > Ganguly. These 2 poor performances are not due to captaincy failure but whole batting lineup has failed.

[Crookbond]

Ganguly had some pluses like he alongwith Wright eliminated India's over-dependence on one or two players. No Tendulkar No India theory gradually started melting. Partly due to the fact few Indian players reached their peak around the same time. He didn't really mind being critical of his own players with strong words inspite of possible ego clashes. Achievements 2000 ICC championship trophy final, 2002 championship trophy shared with SL, 2003 world cup final, first ever Test series win in Pakistan. On the minus side his batting suffered a lot towards the end. To gain some form he batted too slowly in few ODIs and in the process cost India few wins. India never won a ODI series at home except against zimbabwe in India., never won an abroad series except in Bangladesh , Pakistan and Zimbo. He was not the sharpest when it came to on field strategy. Pluses slightly outweight minuses. So he is definitely not "Extremely" over-rated. Probably slightly over-rated. But did better job with Indian cricket team than Azharuddin or Tendulkar who left Indian team in absolute shambles.

Thanks for putting both the pros and cons! I agree with your conclusion. Pretty sensible post. :angelic:

[Shunya]

Dint know gangulys batting avg as captain was only 37...not much good as frontline batsman :hmm: Dhoni still better because of outstanding LOI achievements...

[adi B]

i'm amazed.Ganguly inherited a team ingulfed in match fixing crisis,where people started to look every bad performance with suspision,there was complete lack of belief n turned into a fearless team that looked the others into the eye,backed youngsters who now make the core of the team.as an achievement he levelled the series against Aus in Aus,broke thier 16 win streak in 2001,took us to World cup final n other achievements Ganguly will remain the best Indian captain for a long time to come.Dhoni still has a long way to go to even mattch him

+1

[adi B]

No. Apart from NZ, we haven't even toured any country under Dhoni for tests, wtf are you on about ? Dhoni has had more success winning ODI series than Ganguly, no doubt. And I think that his major success so far. It is still too early to talk about Dhoni leading from front in the tests and better than Dada...etc etc. I am guessing Dhoni's greatness will be judged by how he leads the test team devoid of any membes of the fab 4, which is gonna happen by 2011.

great prophecy :hatsoff:

[India-KXIP fan]

NO

This.

[adi B]

ganguly was far far better captain than dhoni

[Manny_Pacquiao]

i can only laugh at all the badva indian 'fans' that actually thought ganguly wasn't a better captain than dhoni. ganguly got a lot of **** during his time as captain, and some of it - i.e. regarding his batting form - was justifiable, but most of it was nonsensical. anyway, with india sinking to it's lowest point since it first started playing the game, maybe ppl will realise the value of ganguly's leadership and the emphasis he put on winning away from home and changing india's image of being 'soft' away from home. and lets not even compare ganguly and dhoni's batting. dhoni couldn't dream of scoring 120 at headingley, 144 at brisbane, etc. he is a test match hack. shouldnt be too difficult to appreciate ganguly now, especially when everyone's favourite CAPTAIN COOLIE brushes off back to back whitewashes by claiming that away series are only meant to improve skills for matches played at home.

[vamos_rafa]

Give Dhoni some time and a set of fresh legs. He would surely rebuild this team just like he did in the ODIs.

[jhakati]

ganguly took the indian team from the depths of the match fixing saga to a great team who were tigers at both home and abroad. dhoni has taken us back to the 90s. as a captain and as a cricketer ganguly is miles ahead of dhoni.