England look second rate when the ball doesn't swing: Atherton

[daryl1985]

The Perth test had pace and bounce, yet also a lot of swing, I mean if Mitchell Johnson is swinging the ball into the right handers then it says it all. And as for the great Steyn and Morkel, when they came up against the mighty pakistani batting line up in Dubai they couldnt buy a wicket, yes the same Pakistan who have been made to look foolish in every series they have played in the last few years.

Those wickets were probably the biggest roads ever seen in international cricket, plus Steyn just came back from injury as well. Atherton is a dick for publicly criticising the England ODI captain. He should have at least kept his feelings to himself. I hope Cook proves him wrong by going on to score a truckload of runs in both formats (starting after this summer).

[BERGKAMP]

Atherton - "Cook is a donkey and a plodder" Cook - "It takes one to know one" :giggle:

[BERGKAMP]

Stirring stuff from England, but did we learn anything new? By NASSER HUSSAIN Last updated at 10:54 PM on 6th July 2011 Comments (0) Add to My Stories Share Well played, England, but I’m not sure we really learned that much from the win at Trent Bridge. It’s always been the case, even going back to the old Texaco Trophy days when I was a player, that England have done well at home. Before the series, I’d have made them favourites to beat Sri Lanka. And on grassy wickets, where the ball is seaming and swinging around, they really ought to beat teams from the Subcontinent. Sri Lanka’s score of 174 was no great surprise. On target: James Anderson (centre) took three wickets at Trent Bridge But these days, with cricket’s power shift to south Asia, you are not a complete player until you know how to ply your skills on flat pitches. All England’s bowlers needed to do was retreat into their default mode: land the ball on a length with an upright seam and trust in the pitch to help them out. When that happens, they look like the best team in the world. But does it tell us much? Not really. On the plus side, it may have reminded Stuart Broad that he’s so much better when he pitches the ball up. Yes, his two wickets came via short balls, but it’s because they had an element of surprise. All this enforcer stuff doesn’t sit comfortably with me. Welcome reminder: Stuart Broad was back to his best on his home ground I was also impressed with the way Alastair Cook came out and took on Sri Lanka’s bowlers. His capacity for learning is astonishing. He hasn’t played much one-day cricket for Essex or England, so it’s almost been tricky to gauge how good he is in this form of the game. Even though the Sri Lankans served up a few freebies, this was still an impressive knock. We have to judge him as a one-day player after 12 months, but we can’t argue with the start he has made. :cantstop: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2012005/Nasser-Hussain-Stirring-stuff-England-did-learn-new.html

Win lose or draw Nasser is always whining. FFS it is their home series of course they are entitled to serve up pitches with a bit of grass to help them beat the oppo.

[mishra]

I dont understand why Atherton is allowed to say all this. Cook is probably one of the best bat they got..... Serani: Dont blame us... You should blame Atherton. Infact think whats going to hapeen after next couple of weeks PS: I think Atherton is waiting for Mens in Blue to come and join Cook **** whipping party with him.:hysterical:

[Fontaine]

I don't know which test you are talking about. If you are talking about the Gabba test then yes' date=' Siddle blew England away in the 1st innings but England fought back and easily held on for a draw. In the Perth test it was Mitchell Johnson who blew England away and the ball was definitely swinging as well.[/quote'] Yes, I think it was the Gabba test. The question was which bowling unit still looks good without swing and that was one example since Australia's bowlers except for Hilf aren't really swing bowlers.

[daryl1985]

Yes' date=' I think it was the Gabba test. The question was which bowling unit still looks good without swing and that was one example since Australia's bowlers except for Hilf aren't really swing bowlers.[/quote'] Fair enough, England got off to a bad start in that series. However the pitch was pretty flat. Jimmy Anderson got 2-99 in that match but was seriously unlucky not to pick up 4-5 wickets. Mike Hussey made 195 but Anderson beat his bat loads of times and could not get the edge. An error from the England management team on that tour (one of very few errors) was not including Tremlett from the 1st test after he had performed outstandingly well against Australia A in a warm up game.

[Fontaine]

Fair enough' date=' England got off to a bad start in that series. However the pitch was pretty flat. Jimmy Anderson got 2-99 in that match but was seriously unlucky not to pick up 4-5 wickets. Mike Hussey made 195 but Anderson beat his bat loads of times and could not get the edge. An error from the England management team on that tour (one of very few errors) was not including Tremlett from the 1st test after he had performed outstandingly well against Australia A in a warm up game.[/quote'] Sure, but that's the way with swing bowlers. For every wicket some one like Anderson or Khan picks up they have to beat the bat 4/5 times because good batsmen play with soft hands and an angled bat so the edge doesn't carry. You're right that Tremlett should have been included because he's a specialist when it comes to those kinds of pitches, but England have remedied that now with Tremlett getting the new ball instead of Broad.

[jairamesh]

Why English bowlers Intensity (Speed) So Low Compared to Eng 2011 v India? Anyone notice the difference in bowling intensity between England 2011 vs India compared to England 2012 vs WI & now SA? Throughout last year's India tour of England, all the English bowlers were bowling at least 5 to 6 miles (8 to 10 km) quicker then current English season. Even the likes of Anderson and Bresnan were bowling regularly at 140 kph, whilst Broad was easily pushing 145kph. But this season during the WIndies series and now against SA the same bowlers are hardly touching 135kph. It's not even late in the innings tiredness issue, but right from the start, intensity of pace has been on the low side. At times, Broad, Bresnan, and Anderson were barely passing 125kph throughout the over!!! Anyone feel the same or made similar observations?

[SLICKR392]

Barbie on Twitter

Tough day at the office on a sub continent type wicket. No pace in it at all but we kept plugging away. Bring back the old Oval wicket!

[Old guy]

but speed is measured from hand and tbh they look slower too

[Ultimate_Game]

This is what happens when batsmen make bowlers work for their wickets. You have to grind down the bowlers and is unlikely to happen if you go through the series by not managing to go without losing a wkt even once in a session, or when you can't evenbat out more than 70 overs in an innings like we did.

[BERGKAMP]

This is what happens when batsmen make bowlers work for their wickets. You have to grind down the bowlers and is unlikely to happen if you go through the series by not managing to go without losing a wkt even once in a session' date=' or when you can't evenbat out more than 70 overs in an innings like we did.[/quote'] good point. we were gifting wickets left right and centre, so boosting the bowlers kanfidance and spirits. amla and smith have 'mentally disintegrated' them so now they are fekked off and demoralized and it is showing in their speeds.

[panther]

broad no longer get's the front foot block in so has lost a yard of pace. the rest are at there normal pace.

[Trichromatic]

This is what happens when batsmen make bowlers work for their wickets. You have to grind down the bowlers and is unlikely to happen if you go through the series by not managing to go without losing a wkt even once in a session' date=' or when you can't evenbat out more than 70 overs in an innings like we did.[/quote'] +1 When you see opposition getting dismissed for 70-80 overs, you'll certainly put in extra effort to ensure that you don't have to bowl more. But when you see batsmen just leaving and leaving, bowlers will certainly be discouraged. SA had scored like 100 runs in first 50 overs and most of the time India was 5-6 down in those many overs. Tremlett is just a medium pacer, but even he was tried harder in second inning to bowl around 85 mph. But most of the bowlers are bowling at their normal pace. Only Broad had slowed down considerably.

[bajrang]

Maybe they know that they will be bowling for longer to these team. Conserving energy perhaps.

[MechEng]

Anyone notice the difference in bowling intensity between England 2011 vs India compared to England 2012 vs WI & now SA? Throughout last year's India tour of England, all the English bowlers were bowling at least 5 to 6 miles (8 to 10 km) quicker then current English season. Even the likes of Anderson and Bresnan were bowling regularly at 140 kph, whilst Broad was easily pushing 145kph. But this season during the WIndies series and now against SA the same bowlers are hardly touching 135kph. It's not even late in the innings tiredness issue, but right from the start, intensity of pace has been on the low side. At times, Broad, Bresnan, and Anderson were barely passing 125kph throughout the over!!! Anyone feel the same or made similar observations?

English bowlers never really had speed, historically speaking...... Except for Freddie Flintoff who could crank it up to 149 - 153 kph on good days, all English fast bowlers are in 130-135 range. Their main weapon was swing unlike Australia, SA and Windies who used fiery pace to pick wickets.

[MechEng]

And if speed is the ultimate weapon to pick wickets, then India would have DEMOLISHED Australia last year.....Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav were averaging 146 kph and still got creamed.

[rkt.india]

And if speed is the ultimate weapon to pick wickets' date=' then India would have DEMOLISHED Australia last year.....Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav were averaging 146 kph and still got creamed.[/quote'] Channel 9 speed guns look a bit high around 5k, while Ten speed guns look a bit low around same 5K. Otherwise, Yadav and Ishant''s highest pace is around 146-147 which they had clocked on Neo speed guns consistently in India while on same Neo speed guns Finn clocked up to 153K, but they were shown up to 152 there, 5k up. While Yadav yesterday on Ten speed guns was sh own fastest at around 141, about 5K less. That is my observation.

[MechEng]

Channel 9 speed guns look a bit high around 5k' date= while Ten speed guns look a bit low around same 5K. Otherwise, Yadav and Ishant''s highest pace is around 146-147 which they had clocked on Neo speed guns consistently in India while on same Neo speed guns Finn clocked up to 153K, but they were shown up to 152 there, 5k up. While Yadav yesterday on Ten speed guns was sh own fastest at around 141, about 5K less. That is my observation.

p34llSwZU8Q So Shaun Tait is still not as fast as Akhtar?

[MechEng]

Channel 9 speed guns look a bit high around 5k' date=' while Ten speed guns look a bit low around same 5K. Otherwise, Yadav and Ishant''s highest pace is around 146-147 which they had clocked on Neo speed guns consistently in India while on same Neo speed guns Finn clocked up to 153K, but they were shown up to 152 there, 5k up. While Yadav yesterday on Ten speed guns was sh own fastest at around 141, about 5K less. That is my observation.[/quote'] You should also include Sky Sports in the same league as Ten Cricket. Sky too tends to show speeds around 5 kph less IMHO.