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The Narendra Modi thread

1983-2011

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The Narendra Modi thread  

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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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On the contrary, Indian "secularism" - which is a thinly veiled euphemism for minorityism - has been reduced to supporting the non implementation of a uniform civil code, even though it is in the directive principles of state policy of the Constitution.
This is the part where our views converge - uniform civil code is a MUST. I don't see ANY reason why they are not.
The army doesnt indulge in gimmicks to induct armymen on the basis of religion. It doesnt provide only kids of Muslim armymen with cycles and scholarships (a la UPA or Mulayam Singh). The current "secular" discourse is totally opposite to the way army handles religion. And there is no point comparing a message board or an individual to an institution like the army. What can be compared are the policies followed in the army and the policies followed in the civilian govt.
OR giving doles to the jewelery traders OR free TVs/liquor/food to people who vote OR doles to the corporates. I hope you come out for the "appeasement of rich" (which is rarely talked about) as much as you do for the "minority appeasement". Such quid pro quo deals are fairly common in all civilian governments formed. Appeasement is not limited to only minorities - it goes way beyond them.
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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This is the part where our views converge - uniform civil code is a MUST. I don't see ANY reason why they are not.
Taking this view is actually "unsecular" in the political discourse of India. Hopefully things will change.
OR giving doles to the jewelery traders OR free TVs/liquor/food to people who vote OR doles to the corporates. I hope you come out for the "appeasement of rich" (which is rarely talked about) as much as you do for the "minority appeasement". Such quid pro quo deals are fairly common in all civilian governments formed. Appeasement is not limited to only minorities - it goes way beyond them.
Absolutely, all kinds of tokenism and favoritism are detrimental. Unfortunately, no society in the world has been able to free itself from favoritism towards the rich or tokenism in the form of election sops, especially the former. They sort of come as baggage with capitalism and democracy. On the other hand the most successful societies (USA, Nordic countries, Western Europe) have been able to implement uniform laws, and are pretty much role models for secularism.
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coffee_rules Grand Master

coffee_rules

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Taking this view is actually "unsecular" in the political discourse of India. Hopefully things will change. Absolutely, all kinds of tokenism and favoritism are detrimental. Unfortunately, no society in the world has been able to free itself from favoritism towards the rich or tokenism in the form of election sops, especially the former. They sort of come as baggage with capitalism and democracy. On the other hand the most successful societies (USA, Nordic countries, Western Europe) have been able to implement uniform laws, and are pretty much role models for secularism.
USA is hardly a role model for secularism. The discussion around appeasement of minorities for votes is very much there in USA too. Voter Fraud, Voter intimidation, ACORN etc. Ask CricAddict for more details. Only difference is that politics doesn't kill people en masse (like riots or goondaism from politicians). ELections in 2000 dragged for so long without a loss of life. There is no value for human life in India, in general especially from the people in power/money.
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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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Taking this view is actually "unsecular" in the political discourse of India. Hopefully things will change. Absolutely, all kinds of tokenism and favoritism are detrimental. Unfortunately, no society in the world has been able to free itself from favoritism towards the rich or tokenism in the form of election sops, especially the former. They sort of come as baggage with capitalism and democracy. On the other hand the most successful societies (USA, Nordic countries, Western Europe) have been able to implement uniform laws, and are pretty much role models for secularism.
I don't see any reason why everyone shouldn't conform to a common civil code - that's a least. I agree that nepotism is a baggage with democracy and capitalism. But the kind of nepotism in India is way more than the occasional kick back. I don't have any issue if one is unequivocally against nepotism. Unfortunately, that is not true in most contexts - hence the previous comment about the "message boards". I also strongly feel that the politicians are approx. a reflection of our society.
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The Outsider Newbie

The Outsider

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Is it not possible that within the BJP in Gujarat there arent too many winnable Muslim candidates ? People are selected to contest elections based on their winnability, history of work for the party and of course there are caste calculations involved. In municipality elections a lot of Muslims won on the BJP ticket. Those same people may later contest for MLA elections.
Not too many - for starters, can we have just one?
Given the success in the assembly elections (even in Muslim areas) I would say that Modi is a good judge of winnability and merit.
Winning can be achieved on many grounds, a lot of them dubious.
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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I don't see any reason why everyone shouldn't conform to a common civil code - that's a least. I agree that nepotism is a baggage with democracy and capitalism. But the kind of nepotism in India is way more than the occasional kick back. I don't have any issue if one is unequivocally against nepotism. Unfortunately, that is not true in most contexts - hence the previous comment about the "message boards". I also strongly feel that the politicians are approx. a reflection of our society.
Are you talking about nepotism (favoring one's relatives) or economic/administrative corruption favoring the rich ?
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diga Mentor

diga

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Naidu was among those who attended a meeting at Akali Dal MP Naresh Gujral's home in Delhi on Saturday afternoon to discuss ways to strengthen the anti-Congress political platform ahead of the 2014 general elections. BJP leader Arun Jaitley and INLD leader Abhay Chautala were also present at the meeting. In his interactions with CPI(M)'s Prakash Karat and JD(U)'s Sharad Yadav, too, Naidu drove home his party's point that efforts should be made to consolidate the anti-Congress votes under one banner, rejecting the idea of the Third Front, a person privy to the details said. BJP has also been holding talks with INLD chief Om Prakash Chautala for a tie-up in Haryana, where the party already has an understanding with Kuldeep Bishnoi's Haryana Janhit Congress. "We could allot a seat to Bishnoi from our quota of seats. It will not create any hurdle," said a BJP leader involved in the talks. Abhay Chautala has expressed his party's keenness to work with BJP, the leader added. Modi, who has been spearheading the party's efforts at coalition-building, has also held talks with other potential allies, including Babulal Marandi in Jharkhand, BS Yeddyurappa in Karnataka and AGP's Prafulla Mahanta. The alliance with Marandi can be worked out if BJP agrees to contest the next election under his leadership, a person familiar with the matter said. But this will involve shifting former chief minister Arjun Munda, considered a favourite of BJP president Rajnath Singh, out of Jharkhand. The Gujarat CM is expected to cement his position in the party if TDP comes on board. His in-house rivals as much as those in other parties had labelled him as politically untouchable after Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar's JD(U) severed its 17-year-old ties with BJP in opposition to Modi's elevation.
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ravishingravi Grand Master

ravishingravi

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Isn't that damning on it's own that despite Modi's claim that he sees everyone as Indians and claims to have 25% of Muslim support' date=' not a single Muslim is good enough to get a ticket from the BJP?[/quote'] Isn't it ironic that the only way a party can prove its secular credentials is by distributing tickets ( like laptops ) among candidates of certain communities just as a token appeasement gesture overlooking their likelihood of success instead of actually striving for upliftment of all Indians including Muslims ? "Salem Mohammad Baghaad's resume reveals a history of political promiscuity. The 45-year-old has, at different points in his career as a member of the local corporation in his hometown of Salaya, represented the Congress, the Samata Party and others. But it is his partnership with the BJP that has delivered the richest returns. Yesterday, Mr Baghaad and 26 other Muslims won their seats in the corporation contesting for the BJP. Narendra Modi's party will, for the first time, govern the local corporation in Salaya, a town where Muslims form 90 percent of the population." http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/why-this-muslim-majority-town-in-gujarat-voted-for-narendra-modi-s-bjp-330383 Tufail Ahmad, director, South Asia Studies Project at the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), says that "Maulana Mahmood Madani's statement that Muslims in Gujarat voted for Narendra Modi reflects ground realities and is not surprising. His statement might be criticised by some Muslim leaders and human rights activists still rightly angry about the Gujarat riots; but it is essentially reflective of what ordinary Muslims -- whether in Bihar or Gujarat or elsewhere -- feel about their confidence in the Indian democracy and their growing economic prospects." http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-02-24/news/37257747_1_muslim-leaders-muslim-community-gujarat-riots
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Khalpat Newbie

Khalpat

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Isn't that damning on it's own that despite Modi's claim that he sees everyone as Indians and claims to have 25% of Muslim support' date=' not a single Muslim is good enough to get a ticket from the BJP?[/quote'] Why? Why should in a Secular country we should care of which community has got tickets or not? What next should I ask why so less Rajputs have got ticket in Gujarat? Why no Bihari have got tickets despite having big population? Tell me, will Modi turn secular if he gives ticket to Muslims. Tickets are distributed as per merit.
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CSK Fan Newbie

CSK Fan

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Why? Why should in a Secular country we should care of which community has got tickets or not? What next should I ask why so less Rajputs have got ticket in Gujarat? Why no Bihari have got tickets despite having big population? Tell me, will Modi turn secular if he gives ticket to Muslims. Tickets are distributed as per merit.
Usually you can tell by numbers when an impartial distibution has happened. Its the very basis of any statistical analysis. So if you take a population sample and you find anomolies (like % of tickets for muslims vs % of muslim in Gujrat) then the data indicates bias. In a normal distribution of data, the ticket distribution % will be similar to the population distribution
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