R Ashwin, A crap Test Bowler?

[Detonator]

Same inferior pacers bowled them out at 244 in first innings here' date=' 84 in 2006, 131 in 2010 at Durban. If conditions suit pacers, we should play pacers. Spinners are not going to do any damage.[/quote'] we miss sreesanth :vroam:

[NareshK]

how they handled seamers easily' date=' while all the wickets were fell to seamers and spinner did not pick a single wicket. Regarding, pitch, this has been a wet summer, not dry, so do not hope for a dry pitch at Durban this time.[/quote'] Yes, it all depends on the pitch. But remember Herath got 9 wickets in a match here which helped them win a game. Spinners do some damage here usually.

[Detonator]

This is a poor argument. Does not matter who you face in the nets' date=' batting in the match is completely different. [b']If they were so good against pace, they would not have gotten out at 244 in first innings or 84 in 2006. Every batsmen, no matter how good he is, will struggle against a quick bowler in seaming conditions considering bowler is bowling well and utilizing the conditions like India did in first innings.

They learnt almost immedietely. They exhausted our pacers in the 2nd innings. I don't think they will make the same mistake again. Even if we go with 4 pacers, they shld show some disciplined bowling as saffers might come back hard on us.

[rkt.india]

We dont have Marshall or Holding to play as 4th seamer. Its not straight forward to play Umesh or B Kumar as it can backfire quite badly. It will be a huge gamble because we would have a long tail' date=' the over rate scenario and having no spin option if wicket offers turn.[/quote'] We do not need to have a marshall or holding as a 4th pacer. We need a bowler who can contribute and take at least 1-2 wicket which Ashwin has not done. I do not think any move will backfire as much as it did with Ashwin. Ashwin was not better than the part timers in this match. Part timers can take care of over rate if needed. Umesh is a wicket taking bowler with an SR of 46. You need wicket taking bowlers in tests. Tail! what contribution Ashwin had in this match with the bat anyway? Wanderers pitch also got dry on 5th day, what did Ashwin do?

[rkt.india]

They learnt almost immedietely. They exhausted our pacers in the 2nd innings. I don't think they will make the same mistake again. Even if we go with 4 pacers' date=' they shld show some disciplined bowling as saffers might come back hard on us.[/quote'] It was more to do with pitch which had eased up. Most pitches in SA do ease up on 4th and 5th day for batting.

[CG]

We do not need to have a marshall or holding as a 4th pacer. We need a bowler who can contribute and take at least 1-2 wicket which Ashwin has not done. I do not think any move will backfire as much as it did with Ashwin. Ashwin was not better than the part timers in this match. Part timers can take care of over rate if needed. Umesh is a wicket taking bowler with an SR of 46. You need wicket taking bowlers in tests. Tail! what contribution Ashwin had in this match with the bat anyway? Wanderers pitch also got dry on 5th day, what did Ashwin do?

It all depends on pitch ,If it is a greentop play 4 pacers otherwise stick with a spinner.

[rkt.india]

Yes' date=' it all depends on the pitch. But remember Herath got 9 wickets in a match here which helped them win a game. Spinners do some damage here usually.[/quote'] That was a completely different pitch. The team at Durban Lions had changed the pitch to help their spinner Tahir since Tahir joined them and it lost pace and bounce it used to have. If it is a dry pitch then obviously Ashwin will play, but if it is anywhere close to like Wanderers, it useless to play him.

[Marut]

This is a poor argument. Does not matter who you face in the nets' date=' batting in the match is completely different. If they were so good against pace, they would not have gotten out at 244 in first innings or 84 in 2006. Every batsmen, no matter how good he is, will struggle against a quick bowler in seaming conditions considering bowler is bowling well and utilizing the conditions like India did in first innings.[/quote'] You are bringing in the rare instances of South African collapse against India. More often than not, Indian bowlers have failed to make use of the conditions here and cost the match for India. Some times visitors too have bundled out Indian batsmen with spin, this does not mean using spin against India in India is a good strategy for any tourists. South African batsmen do not struggle against pace, but sometimes they do, if it is their off day. Chances are high that, Amla (who got freakly dismissed twice) and others will put Indian pacers to the sword in the next test.

[rkt.india]

It all depends on pitch ' date='If it is a greentop play 4 pacers otherwise stick with a spinner.[/quote'] that is what I am saying too.

[Zanjeer]

Chuskis coming in full force to support fatwin...❇❇❇❕❕❕☺☺☺:haha:

[rkt.india]

You are bringing in the rare instances of South African collapse against India. More often than not, Indian bowlers have failed to make use of the conditions here and cost the match for India. Some times visitors too have bundled out Indian batsmen with spin, this does not mean using spin against India in India is a good strategy for any tourists. South African batsmen do not struggle against pace, but sometimes they do, if it is their off day. Chances are high that, Amla (who got freakly dismissed twice) and others will put Indian pacers to the sword in the next test.

Do tell me which has more chances them struggling against pacers on a seaming track or against spinner. Anyway, if our pacers do not click then forgot win. You do hope that pacers will be effective, otherwise, there is no way we can compete against them in SA, whichever spinner you play.

[NareshK]

Do tell me which has more chances them struggling against pacers on a seaming track or against spinner. Anyway' date= if our pacers do not click then forgot win. You do hope that pacers will be effective, otherwise, there is no way we can compete against them in SA, whichever spinner you play.

I'm not saying that we should not rely on pacers to take wickets on these tracks. Of course, they need to do well but the discussion is about having a 4th seamer over a spinner. Tell me why do Australia, England or any side in the world prefer having a spinner in the side even if they have another decent seamer in squad ? Because they want to have variety and have an option if wicket offers turn. If wicket is really helping spinners, who would you use to exploit it if you dont play a regular spinner ? Rohit Sharma ? Vijay ?

[asterix]

Are you guys suggesting to have faith in Fatwin to take at least a single wicket in the next match? If you guys insist on having one more CSKiite, I'll rather agree with Jaddu to play instead of that sambar fumes farting Fatwin...

[NareshK]

Are you guys suggesting to have faith in Fatwing to take at least a single wicket in the next match? If you guys insist on having one more CSKiite, I'll rather agree with Jaddu to play instead of that as bar fumes farting Fatwin...

Jaddu doesnt have the flight or variations in pace or variation in deliveries to trouble SA batsmen on these tracks. He can only do a holding job. But he is a better fielder but also a poorer batsman IMO. Whoever they pick, I feel a spinner is necessary especially if wicket looks dry.

[putrevus]

These are exceptions for Indian spinners outside Asia. Even Kumble needed many tours to become effective outside Asia. On his first tour to Australia, Kumble often went wickeless and he finished the series with a bowling average of 90 at a strike rate of 175.6. Replacing Ashwin for one bad outing is ok, but the replacement is very likely to be flogged as well. At least Ashwin bowled very tight and gave nothing away, though he was not lucky enough to get a wicket.

Bhajji was most successful bowler in SA on last tour so it was not an exception. just because kumble was ineffective , we have to continue that trend of playing spinners who are useless and when did kumble had 458 target on fifth day, kumble never had that chance, only chance Kumble had was Sydney 2004, he bowled his heart out then picking up 12 wickets. It is not just Ashwin was in effective, he was out bowled by part timer who was under pump to stop the run flow .All Ashwin was needed was pose some kind of threat and pick up a wicket on wearing fifth day pitch and he failed miserably.

[asterix]

Jaddu doesnt have the flight or variations in pace or variation in deliveries to trouble SA batsmen on these tracks. He can only do a holding job. But he is a better fielder but also a poorer batsman IMO. Whoever they pick' date=' I feel a spinner is necessary especially if wicket looks dry.[/quote'] Ashwin is out of form... And out of sorts.... Rather have a Jaddu or Ojha instead, depending upon the pitch. If green pitch then play 4 pacers...

[Detonator]

Are you guys suggesting to have faith in Fatwing to take at least a single wicket in the next match? If you guys insist on having one more CSKiite, I'll rather agree with Jaddu to play instead of that as bar fumes farting Fatwin...

Translation: Bring back Bhajji :giggle:

[Old guy]

Translation: Bring back Bhajji :giggle:

See this is csk trolling I was talking about ;) Anti in this case.

[rkt.india]

I'm not saying that we should not rely on pacers to take wickets on these tracks. Of course, they need to do well but the discussion is about having a 4th seamer over a spinner. Tell me why do Australia, England or any side in the world prefer having a spinner in the side even if they have another decent seamer in squad ? Because they want to have variety and have an option if wicket offers turn. If wicket is really helping spinners, who would you use to exploit it if you dont play a regular spinner ? Rohit Sharma ? Vijay ?

Look at how SA found themselves in trouble by playing Tahir. I am sure they would have liked an extra seamer instead of him. Similarly, India would also have liked an extra seamer on 5th day who could have taken a wicket or two and contribute rather than just depending on 3 seamers to take all the wickets.

[South_Paw]

Chuskis coming in full force to support fatwin...❇❇❇❕❕❕☺☺☺:haha:

You play this IPL card as how Congress plays the secularism card whenever there isn't any valid point to counter :giggle: