For India to Progress, Congress Must Dissolve

[ravishingravi]

Very interesting discussion though. I must say. A rarity on this forum.

[diga]

most of the notions on RSS are not current.. Almost all views are based on what RSS felt about Gandhi & partition or what Golwalkar articulated. Surely the charter of RSS has evolved with time.

[G_B_]

most of the notions on RSS are not current.. Almost all views are based on what RSS felt about Gandhi & partition or what Golwalkar articulated. Surely the charter of RSS has evolved with time.

The presidency in the RSS remains a domain for marathi brahmins. The fight is between Deshashtras and konkanstha. However more and more people from every section of hindu society are joining. At the grassroots there are plenty of SC and ST cadre. Only a matter of time they rise the ranks to claim the top positions Its also reflected in the BJP which does see itself as a pan hindu party. Tribals are the section who are targetted . Today you have strong OBC leaders like Modi, Munde Chohan and tribal leaders like Arjun Munda.

[G_B_]

I hope so, but i cannot see what they wish to accomplish in a state of 90 million people where 25 million are muslims and the rest will fundamentally not identify with RSS core tenets. Even if RSS strays from its core process, it will still only garner a lukewarm response from the bengali hindus and the bengali muslims will flat out reject RSS. Probably thats why BJP has zero presence in bengal. We are a complicated people, in terms of psyche. Nationalism doesnt appeal to us as much, because we are basically butt-hurt people who cannot truely let go of Bangladesh/bengalis from there having some 'special status' to us and who consider both BJP and Congress to've betrayed acknowledgement of the Bengali contribution to Indian independence, which was basically greater than any other state/regions by a few orders of magnitude. I may be wrong but I think we contributed like 25-30% of the number of politicians, policy advocates and activists who got thrown in jail for the entire sum total of indian independence movement participants. Yet, we are made to read like footnotes of Netaji plus a bunch of nobodies. Not many know this but one reason we became communist in the first place is to change the education curriculum which cut out 90% of bengali major players from independence movements! So the 'formulaic bharat first' nationalism- it gets lukewarm response in bengal. What bengalis care about though, is our rights and pride while living in the middle east. If i am not mistaken, we are the second largest indian ethnicity in the middle east, after the malayalis. If BJP wants to appeal to bengalis, it'll have to shake more concessions for bengali cultural associations that operate in the middle east to provide bengali culture. That is the only way BJP gets the reputation to being a 'strong government and gives a damn about us bengalis' amongst the bengalis, in my opinion.

It will take time. WB is probably quite low on the RSS priority list. Dont expect major gains for the next 15 years. They will start out with Orissa (tribals) and Andhra pradesh (again mutli cornered fight with many parties). I also dont think the BJP wants to dominate WB. They want to reach a position like Bihar whereby they can command about 12-20 seats on a regular basis in the lok sabha on their own might. Currently the BJP in WB are targeting north Indian migrants, tribals and gorkhas. What they want is a multi cornered fight. Something which can emerged in the two factions of Andhra pradesh. For all we know there might be a raj t type figure to fights for ethnic bengalis in the face of large migration from UP and Bihar to Bengal. The BJP then has an angle. Do they tie up with this person or do they fight against him? Now you look at UP, the samajwadi won the assembly elections with basically 29.% of the vote. What the Rss and BJP will wait for in WB is for 2/3 formidable factions to emerge. Then the RSS will get to work to get the cadre and infra ready. There is nothing to say muslim votes in the future wont be split if an islamic party in WB emerges. Similarly in Andhra pradesh they have a toe hold. They will target urban areas of Hyderabad, Vizag etc. Chandra Babu naidu realised that the minorities were not going to vote for him anyways. Might as well change tact and go for the youth vote. All this basically came out of the death of YSR in a freak helicopter accident. Had Sonia allowed his son to be the next CM we would be talking about congress dominating the state and the BJP would be nowhere. Bide your time in WB. Who knows Mamata might die. She appears to have no successor. Even the CPM might split into factions.

[G_B_]

and as far as the RSS priority list goes (1) The jats. (i am married to one from meerut) While the BJP is expected to do well in Jat areas this election. The RSS have not been able to penetrate them. Western UP Haryana and other regions of NCR. You need to come to a point whereby the BJP can form state governments and get about 15-20- seats from them on a regular basis in the NCR region. Even today in Haryana the BJP has become a non jat party. That needs to change. Build from western UP. (2) Orissa. Tribals (3) Andhra Pradesh: New parties formed and new states. always a chance (4) Assam. Once again tribals and tea workers. (5) Tamil Nadu. Potential split in the DMK faction. Though might be better to put forward the BJP than RSS. (6) WB and Kerela. The last priority.

[diga]

I All this basically came out of the death of YSR in a freak helicopter accident. Had Sonia allowed his son to be the next CM we would be talking about congress dominating the state and the BJP would be nowhere.

well thats probably one of the bigger turning point in this elections,Congress losing majorly in AP

[gattaca]

well thats probably one of the bigger turning point in this elections' date='Congress losing majorly in AP[/quote'] Lol no. They would have lost in telangana if the division would not happened. YSR was against division.

[diga]

Lol no. They would have lost in telangana if the division would not happened. YSR was against division.

meant losing YSR ..

[coffee_rules]

For India to progress, it has to rise above caste and religion. RSS / BJP should talk about "Indian" nationalism and not about "Hindu" nationalism. It is highly misunderstood when religion (although it means culture) is used to bring people together.

[Muloghonto]

Well I hope tht bjp doesnt cave in to gorkhaland demands...i got nothing against gorkhas but gorkhaland must not b allowed to form due to national security issues. Except for a significant non bengali military personnel living in siliguri/jalpaiguri, non bengali votes dont matter: they r fairly dispersed in kolkata/bordhoman and will not outweigh bengalis in constituents. So bjp is going to struggle even getting single digit lok sabha seats in wb. The rss hindu angle works in bihar, it doesnt work in wb. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[ravishingravi]

http://greatbong.net/2014/05/14/good-bye-dr-singh/#more-54086 Sad but true

[Yoda-esque]

The previous few articles from GreatBong have been good

[veer]

Question to Muloghonto and others from Bengal: How is that Mamta Banerjee getting a huge support from the educated class? Her interview and temperament is painful.. plus, the way she supports illegal bangladeshi should be a suicide policy for her.. instead she is flourishing with that kind of tone.

[hhunaeh]

Interesting article from a chinese newspaper. India’s states grow in power as new government set to take control in Delhi

As India today finds out who takes the reins in Delhi, China will keep its ear to the ground for more distant rumblings, and clues to deeper shifts in power. The road to lasting peace with Asia's other giant, Beijing is beginning to realise, lies beyond Delhi, winding through the political hinterlands of Chennai, Lucknow, Calcutta or Cuttack, where regional leaders rise to unprecedented heights of power. "China is increasingly aware of the ability of regional players to influence national governance and economic development, especially in populous, federal and decentralised countries such as India," said Zhang Li, a professor at the Institute of South Asian Studies at Sichuan University. As the ruling Congress fades and with the pretender to the throne, the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), yet to acquire a pan-India presence, small regional parties and powerful local leaders of the two national parties fill a political void. The hold over their respective states gives these bosses control over a chunk of parliamentary seats, and with it clout in Delhi unthinkable a decade ago. Of India's 28 states, the Congress rules 11 and the BJP five. These two leading parties already have standing pre-election alliances, called the United Progress Alliance (UPA) and the National Democratic Alliance (NDA), respectively, with myriad state-level outfits. According to exit polls taken during the national election, the BJP-led NDA might be able to win 272 seats with little or no additional help from other parties to claim a majority in the 543-seat parliament. But even if it does, it will try to bring in more coalition partners, especially from larger states that have more members of parliament, to ensure stability of the government and make it more broad-based. If it doesn't, and the results declared today show no clear winner, Delhi would be plunged into political uncertainty, triggering new, post-election alliances. In both cases, more state satraps would gain a greater say in all aspects of national policy, including foreign affairs. All but four Indian states share land borders with other countries or with international waters, which should make them a natural party to the nation's foreign and security policies. But like most countries, India's constitution makes foreign policy a wholly central prerogative, and for decades it has remained so. Not any more. "With the liberalisation of the Indian economy on the one hand and globalisation on the other, the boundaries between global, domestic and local are getting increasingly blurred. Indian federalism is also undergoing a structural transformation as a result of the changing nature of politics, leading to a decentralisation of foreign policy," said Tridivesh Singh Maini, a New Delhi-based policy analyst who specialises in the role of border states in India's diplomacy. Not surprisingly then, for the first time, regionalisation of foreign policy has entered the realm of policy statements. The BJP election manifesto says state chief ministers should be "equal partners" in improving India's ties with neighbours and promises the government will not be limited to a team led by the prime minister "sitting in Delhi". It also talks about involving the states in promoting foreign trade. A devolution of sorts of foreign policy is as much a formal admission of the compulsions of coalition politics as it is drawn from the personal experience of BJP leader Narendra Modi, widely tipped to take over from departing Congress Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. As the BJP chief minister of the western state of Gujarat, Modi blazed a trail of subnational economic diplomacy by successfully drawing Chinese investment into his state. In 2011, he made a high-profile trip to Beijing, which reciprocated by rolling out the red carpet. Apart from a sales pitch for his state, Modi appealed for the release of 19 Indians, mostly from his state, who had been arrested in Shenzhen for allegedly smuggling diamonds from Hong Kong to the mainland. Within a month, 13 were released and the rest let off with light sentences, defusing a potential diplomatic stand-off. But in recent years, local leaders have proved they can hinder India's foreign relations as much as they can grease it. In 2011, Mamata Banerjee, a maverick leader from the eastern state of West Bengal, pulled out of the prime minister's delegation to Bangladesh at the last minute and vetoed a river water sharing deal between the two nations. Last year, another UPA ally, in the southern state of Tamil Nadu, withdrew its 18 lawmakers from the ruling coalition over alleged human rights violations of Tamils in Sri Lanka, reducing the government's numerical status in parliament to a minority. India's ties to the two neighbours have yet to recover. "Because West Bengal and Tamil Nadu will continue to be governed by non-Congress and non-BJP governments for the time being and perhaps well into the future, Delhi's foreign policy with the immediate east and south will necessarily have to defer, in part, to Calcutta and Chennai [capitals of West Bengal and Tamil Nadu] on neighbourhood policy," said Sourabh Gupta, a senior research associate at Washington-based business consultancy Samuels International who covers China-India relations. The rise of the provinces is not a uniquely Indian phenomenon. As goods and services flow ever more freely across national borders, local governments in large countries the world over are finding out that their quest for resources can be optimised if unshackled from national bureaucracies. In 2012, Brazil's Sao Paulo, Latin America's wealthiest state, decreed its own plan for conducting international relations. Last year, both Britain and the United States signed agreements with Sao Paulo establishing direct, formal bilateral relations. If Gujarat were a separate country, points out Brookings Institution managing director William Antholis in his recent book Inside Out India and China: Local Politics Go Global, it would be the 23rd largest in the world, slightly smaller than France. Its exports, at US$61 billion in 2011, would put it in the top 50. "That kind of population and that level of global orientation of economic output automatically make local units global players. This is why both China and India have been decentralising their economies. Only, the decentralisation is purely economic in one-party China while in multi-party India, it's both political and economic," Antholis told the Post, drawing a parallel between Gujarat and Guangdong and between Modi and Wang Yang , the reformist vice-premier and former Guangdong party chief. "Local leaders are increasingly running India and China. It makes enormous sense for anybody engaging these countries to engage the local leaders." In India's case, some states - like Gujarat - have done a stellar job of managing their economies in stark contrast to the rest of the country. Voters, in turn, have rewarded these local leaders by repeatedly returning them to power, creating a mutually reinforcing spiral of political power and economic clout. That heft makes India's state leaders particularly important for China, which has been struggling to pry open this difficult market. Bitter Indian memories of a lost war in 1962 and the resultant security fears hobble Chinese investments, from telecom to infrastructure. Operating in such a climate of suspicion, it pays for Chinese businesses to have powerful state governments in their corner because most of the standard obstacles are put up by centrally controlled agencies such as those relating to security. "I remember the ordeal of a Chinese bamboo flooring company that was trying to set up a factory in the northeastern state of Tripura. The central authorities simply refused to issue the visas for key Chinese engineers needed for the project," said Subir Bhaumik, a senior fellow at Indian think tank Centre for Studies in International Relations and Development. "Finally the chief minister intervened and wangled the visas. This happens all the time in border states." Strong regional allies, especially border states, are also crucial to China's ambitious cross-border infrastructure investment initiatives. Beijing, for example, is keen to develop a Bangladesh-China-India-Myanmar (BCIM) economic corridor by reactivating an ancient trade route that runs from Kunming in Yunnan to Calcutta. The BCIM corridor would shorten travel time, cut transport costs, provide landlocked Yunnan province access to the Bay of Bengal, open up India's vast market to China's backward western regions and help create new production bases along the way. But Delhi's fear of the security implications of allowing China direct access to its border states means BCIM is yet to gather steam. Strong lobbying by states that stand to gain from the corridor, such as West Bengal and Manipur, would go a long way in overcoming central resistance and help China push its agenda. In 2012, then US secretary of state Hillary Clinton visited West Bengal to meet chief minister Mamata Banerjee before going on to New Delhi. The previous year, she flew to Tamil Nadu to meet up with its chief minister, J. Jayalalithaa, another powerful state leader. While the US, for which India is an important element of its "Asia pivot", displays a pattern of engagement that recognises the primacy of influential states, the Chinese have been slow to practise such courtship. But according to Jabin Jacob, assistant director of the Institute of Chinese Studies in New Delhi, China's interaction with Indian subnational actors may be short on pomp, but not on substance. "The Chinese are far less demonstrative and when engaging regional players in India, they prefer to do it through their own regions. Yunnan, for example, sends frequent delegations to West Bengal, mainly related to the BCIM initiative. Their priority is economic returns, not cultivating top-level political leaders. At least not yet," said Jacob. "China doesn't yet engage regional leaders in order to achieve political outcomes. But it's just a matter of time, I guess. The more Indian national party leaders look at regional parties or states strategically, so will others."

[Muloghonto]

Question to Muloghonto and others from Bengal: How is that Mamta Banerjee getting a huge support from the educated class? Her interview and temperament is painful.. plus, the way she supports illegal bangladeshi should be a suicide policy for her.. instead she is flourishing with that kind of tone.

Mamata's popularity is complicated. For years, she was seen as the only viable alternative to CPM and eventually, she did topple the CPM. For Kolkattans, its a huge thing, since Kolkata has been trying to oust the CPM government from atleast the 1980s but countryside support for CPM was huge. So there is definite loyalty factor there. Plus she is an outspoken woman, who can attract a lot of women votes. She is also very concious about what the educated Bengali class cares for/is concerned about: preservation of Bengali language, heritage, culture and history. Mamata does do an excellent job at trying to promote Bengali interests in this matter- far more so than the dry uncaring approach of the communist system. Plus you have to understand, partition is a lot less sensetive an issue for Bengalis than rest of Indians. We did not have a particularly traumatic experience at partition compared to Punjab, so esteem of Bangladeshis amongst bengalis is lot higher than Punjabis on either side of the border. Most Indian's idea of partition is very punjabi partition based- in the media, films, tvs. Yet, having experienced it, we do get holier than thou at indians who have not experienced partition. Mamata does excellently to balance the inter-Bong relationships and uses - especially illegal Bangladeshi immigration- as a bulwark against 'hindustani takeover' of Bengali cities. In short, she effectively communicates the idea that 'bengal shall remain bengali as long as bangladeshis keep hopping the border, so we dont have to worry about demographic swamping over the long term from biharis, marwaris and punjabis' without actually verbalizing it precisely.

[Yoda-esque]

Mamata is the new CPM

[ravishingravi]

Mamata is the new CPM

She is left of left. As you said, the city will dwindle in dark ages for decades.