This is why we have trundlers?

[jalebi_bhai]

Why does it have to be pace or accuracy ? There have been many many bowlers in history as well as currently, who are doing both. We should encourage our quicks to practice hard and bowl quick with reasonable accuracy.

Who exactly has told them to not bowl quickly and accurately?

[SLICKR392]

Key point......we lost today because we bowled badly.......conceded 40 runs more than we should have......

And we will continue losing with these 2 douchebags in our side. Ishant bowls short and wide at 132 Ks expecting the ball to bounce and Vinay has got just 1 rubbish delivery that he chokes onto 24/7.

[msb1991]

Yadav is genuinley and naturally fast. Built to bowl quick. He does not have to give all to bowl fast. So see no reason why he wont develop the accuracy. Some bowlers to bowl high 80s have to give everything and thats when wheels come of. Johnson is not having to push and can still clock high speeds. Yadav is similar, he can develop that accuracy at high speed if given plenty of exposure and handled right etc

This is the key word. There is no proof that the right way to handle a bowler is for him to play as much international cricket as possible. Dale Steyn, for example, developed most when away from the international game. He is only slightly better at the moment than when he got his second chance in the international team after being dropped in 2006. Similarly, Zaheer Khan in 2010 was no better than Zaheer Khan in 2007 after his county stint. I'm not saying that either way is the right way to handle a bowler, but it is an open question. Yadav will play all of our Test cricket for the moment and will play ODI cricket in the future. The current judgment is that the best thing to do is to keep him out of ODI cricket. Considering that he has played well in ODIs recently, it is very likely that this has been done, not for the team, but for Yadav's development.

[msb1991]

Not playing for India and bowling 25 overs in one innings in Duleep trophy is not helping matters' date='[/quote'] Pretty much every great fast bowler of the past has said that the best way to get a bowler fit is for him to bowl as many overs as possible.

[SLICKR392]

Matter of fact, Yadav could be a grand pick considering how he blew the Aussies away in the warm up game in England.

[CG]

The point is Yadav needs to be in team to develop. He is diamond we need to look after and polish up. You keep looking at past, we need to plan and look at future i.e 2015 world cup. We need to do all to get that 90mph bowler ready for that tournament. Not playing for India and bowling 25 overs in one innings in Duleep trophy is not helping matters,

Same was said for ishant look where he is now.U need to be dropped for bad performances and yadav has been poor in odis.Ishant never was dropped even though he performed badly and complacency has set in.I believe yadav can be strike bowler in all formats but he has to work on his game .Also i think when we tour sa he will be in the odi side on those pitches.

[Lord]

This is the key word. There is no proof that the right way to handle a bowler is for him to play as much international cricket as possible. Dale Steyn, for example, developed most when away from the international game. He is only slightly better at the moment than when he got his second chance in the international team after being dropped in 2006. Similarly, Zaheer Khan in 2010 was no better than Zaheer Khan in 2007 after his county stint. I'm not saying that either way is the right way to handle a bowler, but it is an open question. Yadav will play all of our Test cricket for the moment and will play ODI cricket in the future. The current judgment is that the best thing to do is to keep him out of ODI cricket. Considering that he has played well in ODIs recently, it is very likely that this has been done, not for the team, but for Yadav's development.

very good point.to this point Steyn avoids meaningless ODIs and plays all tests.Why should we not do that with Yadav too?

[maniac]

There needs to be a change in the philosophical approach of coaching a fast bowler....If Umesh sprays at 150,he shouldn't be asked to slow down to maintain accuracy,rather figure out a way to keep his pace and become more accurate. Look at Johnson-Don't see a lot of changes in his action from the time he first started.All I can see is that the guy has gotten fitter and is built like a bull now,probably improved his accuracy with a lot of practice. We lost guys like Nehra,Munaf etc to such philosophy in the past.....As far as Ishant goes,the guy was imitating Zak's action?Which coach in his right mind would let that happen? In Hindsight it looks very simple but don't know if BCCI is trying to save money by hiring these un-proven commodities as coaches.Don't tell me we can can't get guys like Donald,Pollock,McGrath etc as coaches

[express bowling]

Who would you rather have? A spray gun Umesh in ODIs or a 125-130K Bhuvi? Obviously I would have Yadav and Shukla over VK and Ishant any day but pace din't win Australia the game today.

I don't think there is a single member here who wants a good medium pacer like Bhuvi out of the team. But the bowling unit as a whole needs some pace, preferably someone genuinely quick. If not present then someone close. I don't think you would disagree that our pace bowling unit is looking too one dimensional with most pacers bowling at less than 135 k.

[msb1991]

Matter of fact' date=' Yadav could be a grand pick considering how he blew the Aussies away in the warm up game in England.[/quote'] Agree. However, I reiterate my earlier points. - I think Yadav would, in hindsight, have been a good pick for this series. - In light of this, perhaps he wasn't picked for reasons to do with his own development. - Therefore, KT's judgment that his dropping is to do with Indian vendetta against pace might be proven wrong.

[msb1991]

Same was said for ishant look where he is now.U need to be dropped for bad performances and yadav has been poor in odis.Ishant never was dropped even though he performed badly and complacency has set in.I believe yadav can be strike bowler in all formats but he has to work on his game .Also i think when we tour sa he will be in the odi side on those pitches.

Excellent point! I remember when we used to disagree on everything on PlanetCricket.

[maniac]

Pretty much every great fast bowler of the past has said that the best way to get a bowler fit is for him to bowl as many overs as possible.

That does not apply now...When they said that they meant County cricket when they had moments to be more laid back and try things out....Now the excess of cricket is all international or these billion $ leagues were the stakes,stress and pressure are super high.

[CG]

Excellent point! I remember when we used to disagree on everything on PlanetCricket.

:giggle: It was mostly on sreesanth.

[vayuu1]

We deserve to have trundlers with the mentality of few members ,saying we don't need umesh is spray gun,heck even johnson sprays as well ,but the point is they are wicket takers who can take wickets as well,I will take a umesh and shukla over crapumar and pissant any day,considering even a tailender like McKay can smash them for sixes for fun.

[msb1991]

That does not apply now...When they said that they meant County cricket when they had moments to be more laid back and try things out....Now the excess of cricket is all international or these billion $ leagues were the stakes' date='stress and pressure are super high.[/quote'] The performances and records of the great fast bowlers in county cricket showed they were not taking it easy.

[jalebi_bhai]

There needs to be a change in the philosophical approach of coaching a fast bowler....If Umesh sprays at 150,he shouldn't be asked to slow down to maintain accuracy,rather figure out a way to keep his pace and become more accurate. Look at Johnson-Don't see a lot of changes in his action from the time he first started.All I can see is that the guy has gotten fitter and is built like a bull now,probably improved his accuracy with a lot of practice. We lost guys like Nehra,Munaf etc to such philosophy in the past.....As far as Ishant goes,the guy was imitating Zak's action?Which coach in his right mind would let that happen? In Hindsight it looks very simple but don't know if BCCI is trying to save money by hiring these un-proven commodities as coaches.Don't tell me we can can't get guys like Donald,Pollock,McGrath etc as coaches

Nehra dropped his speed because his body let him down massively.......since around 2009.....he has had to significantly cut down playing 4-5 day cricket to prolong his career........Munaf was just a lazy oaf......

[express bowling]

Who exactly has told them to not bowl quickly and accurately?

From years of following Indian cricket, I have heard and read Indian past players, current players, coaches, commentators, selectors etc. say things like " he is erring in line in an effort to bowl quick ". Fact is line and length can go wrong due to a host of reasons especially lack of rhythm, something wrong with action or release etc. " he should try to pitch the ball up" even after a single and decent bouncer bowled in one over. " line and length are far more important than pace ". Actually both are important. " we have encouraged him to bowl quick and not think about anything else ". This is a rare statement but again focuses on the fact that both pace and accuracy are not simultaneously desired. There are many more such statements but you get the drift. The cricket fraternity in India tend to believe that a pacer needs to cut down on pace to bowl well or forget about everything else to bowl quick.

[Lord]

This to me looks dangerous not playing ur best squad in the ODI format unless off course u do not want to win multi-nation tournaments - talking about steyn and the SA policy. Always pick your best squad even if it means the fellow plays 5 yrs less.

no we have to prioritize.Yadav is more needed in Tests where hes actually good even now. Also best ODI squad doesnt necessarily include Umesh.Mohit,Shami can be tried too and ofcourse guys like Shukla,Aaron (if fit). We need to look both long term and short term

[Number]

There needs to be a change in the philosophical approach of coaching a fast bowler....If Umesh sprays at 150,he shouldn't be asked to slow down to maintain accuracy,rather figure out a way to keep his pace and become more accurate. Look at Johnson-Don't see a lot of changes in his action from the time he first started.All I can see is that the guy has gotten fitter and is built like a bull now,probably improved his accuracy with a lot of practice. We lost guys like Nehra,Munaf etc to such philosophy in the past.....As far as Ishant goes,the guy was imitating Zak's action?Which coach in his right mind would let that happen? In Hindsight it looks very simple but don't know if BCCI is trying to save money by hiring these un-proven commodities as coaches.Don't tell me we can can't get guys like Donald,Pollock,McGrath etc as coaches

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7al8EN6rXw]theMill Gym - Mitchell Johnson Interview - YouTube[/ame] do you think apart from Umesh any of our paratha dosa bowlers do this ?

[jalebi_bhai]

From years of following Indian cricket, I have heard and read Indian past players, current players, coaches, commentators, selectors etc. say things like " he is erring in line in an effort to bowl quick ". Fact is line and length can go wrong due to a host of reasons especially lack of rhythm, something wrong with action or release etc. " he should try to pitch the ball up" even after a single and decent bouncer bowled in one over. " line and length are far more important than pace ". Actually both are important. " we have encouraged him to bowl quick and not think about anything else ". This is a rare statement but again focuses on the fact that both pace and accuracy are not simultaneously desired. There are many more such statements but you get the drift. The cricket fraternity in India tend to believe that a pacer needs to cut down on pace to bowl well or forget about everything else to bowl quick.

But have we had a bowler who has been able to bowl with considerable speed and accuracy for a significant period of time (8+ years)? Zaheer and Nehra were quite quick around 2003......however, both ended up being injury prone throughout their careers.......Srinath is the only one who honestly comes to mind......Sir Aggy also used to be deceptively quick back in the day........