India Tour of England, June-Sept 2014

[Forever Indian]

If we keep dropping catches' date=' even 6 specialist bowlers will not do. In the 2 practice matches, have already dropped some 5-6 chances. In last 13-14 tests, we have missed an average of 3 chances per match. We keep doing that and an average looking bowling attack will look even worse.[/quote'] Agreed on this. We have a god enough attack if we can take all the catches, esp. the slip catches. We always tend to drop crucial catches wherein that batsman goes on to score big and we end up in a bad state. If we take all our catches we would be much more competitive overseas.

[Stuge]

Very hard to predict who will win .. England has upper hand with Ishant Sharma in our team .

[rkt.india]

Very hard to predict who will win .. England has upper hand with Ishant Sharma in our team .

Do they need a hand in Ishant's presence? :hmmmm:

[SLICKR392]

What spinners should know about bowling in England

You need to be big-hearted to bowl in England. It always boils down to your skill and your heart. That is the lesson I learned in my eight years of county cricket, where I played for four different teams. India will know that since England don't have a specialist spinner anymore - after Graeme Swann's retirement and the disciplinary issues Monty Panesar is struggling with - it's highly unlikely that they will prepare pitches that will spin big even on the fourth day. So apart from your batsmen putting up enough runs on the board to let you go out and bowl with confidence, the key to succeeding and remaining consistent as a spinner is to not be attacking all the time. I read that R Ashwin said he would like to be a more attacking spinner. That's easier said than done, especially in England, and given the way Alastair Cook and his men played spin in India in the 2012-13 Test series. In first-class cricket in England you need to understand your role on the first few days. If the pitch is not doing much, you become the stock bowler, play with your flight, set in-out fields, depending on the batsman, and give control to the captain and the team. The conditions also dictate how you bowl. In England it's important to pitch on the right length; for a spinner that is good length. It is a good defensive and attacking length to stick to, particularly on pitches that can be slow. In overseas series, I have seen Ashwin being cut and pulled a lot. You can't lose your lengths in England; you can, at times, play with your lines. Another important element to bowling well in England is to put a lot of body behind the ball. As Sanjay Manjrekar has repeatedly pointed out, many Indian spinners use their shoulders and fingers to impart turn, which is why they don't get enough out of unresponsive pitches, unlike Australia's Nathan Lyon, who can generate bounce even on pitches that do not take turn because he uses his body a lot more. During India's first tour match of the 2011 tour to England, against Somerset, Amit Mishra went for some runs despite having bowled well on the second day. When he asked me how I bowled on such pitches, I told him that he had to realise that spinners will be hit. So you need to play around with the batsman's mind and the field placements. One of my ploys was to push a fielder deep into areas where I expected the batsman to hit. I would place a deep midwicket to Trescothick, who played the lap shot really well and frequently. People might say it is a defensive mindset but they should understand that I am trying to block the batsman's big shot. You should not be reacting after a shot has been hit. Instead I was telling the batsman: I'm attacking you. I have close-in fielders but I am also placing a fielder here for the big shot, so try and take me on. Sometimes it plays with his ego but it also brings me comfort and gives me freedom to experiment. In England it is also a question of mind over matter. It is about sticking to your strengths and doing your job. You know the weather can be cold. You know that sometimes the pitches are going to be really slow and might not take spin. When nothing is going well for you, and this happens to every bowler, you must stay positive and bowl well. It is not always about thinking of wickets. It is about biding your time. You have to adopt a role: if it is cold, keep lots of hand warmers with you; if the pitch is not taking spin, tell yourself you are going to stick to your lengths; play around with the fields; play with the batsman's mind; stick to your strengths. John Emburey, the former Middlesex and England offspinner, told me that it was always good to try things. He said that at Lord's, spinners, especially left-arm ones, usually bowl from the Nursery End to take advantage of the slope. Emburey, who was accustomed to bowling from the Pavilion End, would switch sides with former England left-arm spinner Phil Edmonds to bowl from the Nursery End and bowl tighter lines on the off stump to force the outside edge. So it is important to be aware and open to doing things that you will not generally do. One advantage the Indian spinners have is, they will not find it hard to get used to the Dukes ball, because it is similar to the one they use at home, the SG Test ball, which has a pronounced seam. The Dukes ball stays hard throughout, which is a good thing for a spinner, especially on a dry surface. At times, more than the pitches, it is the success of the seamers up front that plays a vital role in the spinner being effective. Some of the surfaces in England can be really slow, especially at Lord's and The Oval. There is nothing for spinners at Trent Bridge. The Old Trafford pitch can break up, but at the Rose Bowl it won't.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/757091.html

Hopefully Ashwin pays some heed to these.

[Temujin Khaghan]

I would like to see the comments if Dhoni were to win this series by some fluke..

excuse is ready! its because cook is a bigger moron :cantstop:

[ThePhenomenal1]

wise words, will they listen though?

[ThePhenomenal1]

I would like to see the comments if Dhoni were to win this series by some fluke..

cannot win a 5 test series with ishant in the team all the time

[cowboysfan]

there are defensive captains and there is Dhoni who frankly is a very poor test captain who actually hates his bowlers and it shows.

[undisputed chap]

Most boring 5 match series ever. Rather watch 2011 england series B->

[Fontaine]

there are defensive captains and there is Dhoni who frankly is a very poor test captain who actually hates his bowlers and it shows.

That's just dumb and shortsighted. When Dhoni actually had decent bowlers like Zaheer in his prime and Ishant at the start of his career before he sucked, then Dhoni used his fast bowlers very well in particular in India against Australia when they were still a very good test side. But when you have bowlers who can't even bowl to a field, nevermind take wickets then captains have no choice.

[diga]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/757091.html

Ashwin putting the body behind the ball ... forget it

Hopefully Ashwin pays some heed to these.

[cowboysfan]

That's just dumb and shortsighted. When Dhoni actually had decent bowlers like Zaheer in his prime and Ishant at the start of his career before he sucked, then Dhoni used his fast bowlers very well in particular in India against Australia when they were still a very good test side. But when you have bowlers who can't even bowl to a field, nevermind take wickets then captains have no choice.

where has that got us ? nowhere and no wins abroad since forever.what has Dhoni got to lose? he needs to encourage young bowlers and give them chances but he still is very reluctant to chnces to new players.why drop Yadav for the whole tour? surely he could be in the squad for a 5 match tour instead of binny.

[Forever Indian]

Do they need a hand in Ishant's presence? :hmmmm:

Could be. Like BCCI had deals with all countries I think the big 3 was formed on the back of a deal that Ishant will play on both England and Australia tours.

[moniker]

That's just dumb and shortsighted. When Dhoni actually had decent bowlers like Zaheer in his prime and Ishant at the start of his career before he sucked, then Dhoni used his fast bowlers very well in particular in India against Australia when they were still a very good test side. But when you have bowlers who can't even bowl to a field, nevermind take wickets then captains have no choice.

It's not that simple, selecting just one of who is responsible for all the losses, bowlers or the captain. It can be that poor bowling forces Dhoni to set defensive fields, or lack of confidence in the bowlers' abilities by the captain make bowlers lackadaisical that leads to their performance being impeded, or even a mix of both. I'd say both the captain and the bowlers are guilty. Sri Lanka usually has a similar or worse bowling attack than us. Why do you think they won in England? Did they all suddenly become wonderful, attacking bowlers, or did they do it because they were encouraged by inspirational leadership?

[Fontaine]

where has that got us ? nowhere and no wins abroad since forever.what has Dhoni got to lose? he needs to encourage young bowlers and give them chances but he still is very reluctant to chnces to new players.why drop Yadav for the whole tour? surely he could be in the squad for a 5 match tour instead of binny.

What? For the last year we've gone from Yadav, BK, Shami to now Pankaj/Pandey. Of course we're selecting and bowling younger players, sometimes when they're not even ready. You can't just look at the win/loss column and judge a captain's merit. It's shortsighted and simple minded. Michael Clarke/Dhoni/Cook all have gone winless for large stretches. Clarke was whitewashed in England after being whitewashed in India. Does that make him a bad/defensive captain? It took his bowlers getting better, Michael Johnson and just enough batting for him to dominate England. He didn't just change overnight in between series. The fact is, of the above three captains, Dhoni has had the worst bowling attack for years. That doesn't make him a good captain or a bad captain, it just means his team has a lot more to overcome abroad without the spin factor. And seriously let freakin stop blaming the captain for bowlers. You don't see people criticizing Cook/Clarke when their bowlers are out of form or just suck.

[adi B]

That's just dumb and shortsighted. When Dhoni actually had decent bowlers like Zaheer in his prime and Ishant at the start of his career before he sucked, then Dhoni used his fast bowlers very well in particular in India against Australia when they were still a very good test side. But when you have bowlers who can't even bowl to a field, nevermind take wickets then captains have no choice.

Yeah sure,aus 162/8 at the start of day 4 mcg.he opens the field with just two slips,long on,cover back .result aus add another 80 runs and he has done such things countless Times prime example day 4 of the cape town test 2011. Don't try to shield dhoni just because the bowlers are poor,fact is dhoni is an abysmal test captain and when the opposition began to score bit freely ,he becomes clueless and sets defensive fields from the word go

[NareshK]

Most boring 5 match series ever. Rather watch 2011 england series B->

Please don't watch and keep away from ICF as well and spare us your opinions.

[CSK Fan]

What? For the last year we've gone from Yadav, BK, Shami to now Pankaj/Pandey. Of course we're selecting and bowling younger players, sometimes when they're not even ready. You can't just look at the win/loss column and judge a captain's merit. It's shortsighted and simple minded. Michael Clarke/Dhoni/Cook all have gone winless for large stretches. Clarke was whitewashed in England after being whitewashed in India. Does that make him a bad/defensive captain? It took his bowlers getting better, Michael Johnson and just enough batting for him to dominate England. He didn't just change overnight in between series. The fact is, of the above three captains, Dhoni has had the worst bowling attack for years. That doesn't make him a good captain or a bad captain, it just means his team has a lot more to overcome abroad without the spin factor. And seriously let freakin stop blaming the captain for bowlers. You don't see people criticizing Cook/Clarke when their bowlers are out of form or just suck.

Wrong As I have said before, you are looking at the symptoms and not the disease Some of the same bowlers you mentioned have been identified as very skilled by outstanding past bowling legends Yet what happens? Did you even seen the way Dhoni makes his fast bowler bowl? Did you even see the way BK has been made to be turned from a wicket taking bowler to a defensive one? Yadav being used in 2 overs spells? BK bowls much better in IPL under a different captain and so does Yadav and others. This "No good bowler" has been the pathetic excuse Dhoni has been hiding behind for years now. But there is a clear reason why promising young bowlers fall away really fast under Dhoni What kind of bowlers does he encourage over time? Bowlers like Mohit Sharma and Vinay Kumar, CSK team is full of such bowlers and zero fast bowlers and that is not a coincidence. And if Yadav tries to ball all out he is given random spells and dropped as soon as possible. Ishant gets a 100 games despite failing.Which bowler will succeed in the international arena with zero help? You cannot say that it is a coincidence that CSK team has exactly the same bowling problems the Indian team has when all the best fast bowlers in the world were available for selection. But keep on just seeing the symptoms and ignore the rotten core

[ThePhenomenal1]

What? For the last year we've gone from Yadav, BK, Shami to now Pankaj/Pandey. Of course we're selecting and bowling younger players, sometimes when they're not even ready. You can't just look at the win/loss column and judge a captain's merit. It's shortsighted and simple minded. Michael Clarke/Dhoni/Cook all have gone winless for large stretches. Clarke was whitewashed in England after being whitewashed in India. Does that make him a bad/defensive captain? It took his bowlers getting better, Michael Johnson and just enough batting for him to dominate England. He didn't just change overnight in between series. The fact is, of the above three captains, Dhoni has had the worst bowling attack for years. That doesn't make him a good captain or a bad captain, it just means his team has a lot more to overcome abroad without the spin factor. And seriously let freakin stop blaming the captain for bowlers. You don't see people criticizing Cook/Clarke when their bowlers are out of form or just suck.

AUS simply weren't good enough when they faced us. And there were management issues. With india, they have the bowlers. Are you telling me that a group of shami, bhuvi, pandey, pankaj and aaron cannot take 20 wickets? Once they adapt to conditions and attack, they are a potent attack. Why dont you face it that dhoni was never a good overseas captain. You need to be brave, lead from the front, be aggressive, mix use of bowlers, go for wickets. Dhoni invites what he fears and doesn't want: a loss. He gets scared that opposition will add more runs - sets defensive field - they add more runs. Notice how in SA 2013 tour, we bowled out the tail fairly quickly when we continued to attack. We need new thinking altogether. A limited test batsman like dhoni cant understand test cricket. Give him his dust bowls and chennai spinners and let him play ranji. Leave India alone

[Gollum]

Insult to mention Dhoni in the same sentence as Cook. Cook has scored 100s everywhere unlike this fool and isn't corrupt.