Indian Limited Overs Back up batsman not good enough

[NareshK]

If a bowler like Binny can get 6 wickets for 4 runs, it shows what kind of a pitch they are playing on. Uthappa, Rahane batted well in 1st ODI on a normal pitch. As far as I'm concerned, Uthappa should play in India X1 as an opener. Rahane has shown he has good technique in SA, NZ tests so he could be a reserve batsman who could do well in conditions helpful for seamers. Pujara is another batsman with good technique but he hasn't got enough chances to prove himself in limited overs. Perhaps one can say he is not right for ODIs but he has one of the best List A records among all batsmen in the world. I doubt Rahane, Pujara or Rayudu will find a place in first choice side anyway. Raina should always be in the side as No.5 batsman. Rest of the spots are filled by Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni and Uthappa.

[Pagalpanti]

Rahane has proven somewhat that he can handle top bowling and in different conditions, he just hasn't got going consistently. Just because Kohli started well, not everyone will. Need to be patient with him. He just needs a kick-start to his career and he'll get going as well, similarly for Pujara. These 2 will form a key part of India's XI in 2015 wcup methinks. However I don't see Tiwary and Rayudu lasting long...

[rkt.india]

bullshit you play in england and even the most docile pitch in the world will start swinging sideways when the conditions becomes overcast. Its not the pitches that matter its the weather overhead. Thats exactly what happened in our ODI v SL in the champions trophy. While i am not in a position to comment on pitches through the world. In England the weather above is the key indicator and not the pitch.

You get swing there, not exaggerated seam movement or inconsistent bounce like this. This pitch was pretty much equivalent to what we got in POS, WI in triseries. These were even more difficult to bat.

[vvvslaxman]

I don't buy the excuse of poor pitch. You should adapt. If you want to be a good batsman you should learn to adapt. Assess the conditions quickly and adapt quickly instead of blaming the pitch. I would understand if it is a well oiled pace unit of australia or south africca. This is Bangladesh for christsake. Uthappa i will give some lee way. He is a much more consistent batsman than most there. One problem with him as well is lack of conversions. When you look at this line up, my question is who can score a 100 in this line up. Nobody looks like getting a 100. Even Raina is used more as a finisher than an innings builder which suits him perfectly. Top 4 should be able to make 100. Not 60 , 70 and go missing 2 or 3 mathes. Rahane is culprit on this. He makes 50 or 60 then next maxt match he gets out very first over.

[putrevus]

This is the same excuse Ganguly gave when his side was walloped in NZ before world cup in 2002.The fact remained then also his team played awful in that series instead of owning up they blamed pitches. Aren't the two teams playing on same wicket then if you are good enough you should do well.If they guy are having tough time negotiating seam and swing of bangladeshi bowlers how the heck are the going to face Anderson and co. Every team wants to roll out green tracks against Indian batsmen to negate their strengths. Binny might not succeed anywhere but he bowled perfectly for these conditions, if he gets same conditions he will be okay as a fifth bowler.

[NareshK]

This is the same excuse Ganguly gave when his side was walloped in NZ before world cup in 2002.The fact remained then also his team played awful in that series instead of owning up they blamed pitches. Aren't the two teams playing on same wicket then if you are good enough you should do well.If they guy are having tough time negotiating seam and swing of bangladeshi bowlers how the heck are the going to face Anderson and co. Every team wants to roll out green tracks against Indian batsmen to negate their strengths. Binny might not succeed anywhere but he bowled perfectly for these conditions, if he gets same conditions he will be okay as a fifth bowler.

The other side got bowled out for 50 and India won the series 2-0 with a noob side. What are you whining about ? Do you think Uthappa, Tiwary, Rayudu will play a test match at Headingley against Anderson ? Take a chill pill. You are taking this way too seriously.

[youngindia]

Anyone who doesn't agree with you has a stupid view? Look into the mirror

I called the views stupid because i have no time for the illogic of giving credence to dubious result and expecting great things out of batsmen in conditions where all sides could not get 120 THREE times. what part of it is so difficult to understand?

[putrevus]

The other side got bowled out for 50 and India won the series 2-0 with a noob side. What are you whining about ? Do you think Uthappa' date=' Tiwary, Rayudu will play a test match at Headingley against Anderson ? Take a chill pill. You are taking this way too seriously.[/quote'] nobody is whining, why are you getting worked up.it is not about the results, nobody cares about results. Pujara and Rahane will play against Anderson and co.It is not just me guys like Akash Chopra were also writing about Rahane's technique . Like that NZ series in 2002 which costed Laxman his dream of playing world cup , this series might cost Pujara his world cup chances.It may not matter to you but it surely matters to those players. To just say pitch was bad what happened does not matter is just ridiculous.

[youngindia]

Aren't the two teams playing on same wicket then if you are good enough you should do well. Every team wants to roll out green tracks against Indian batsmen to negate their strengths. .

its not about how good you are. This is about a dubious environment.In a dubious environment,results are dubious and its stupid to consider such results seriously. its logical to talk about merit when only when integrity has not been deeply affected .

Binny might not succeed anywhere but he bowled perfectly for these conditions, if he gets same conditions he will be okay as a fifth bowler

you mean cricket is played under conditions where teams are bowled for 58 and 100? Clarke 6 for 9, joshi had 5 for 1- if you think highly about these dubious figures, then no one can help you.these figures have no credibility with me.neither does binny. they are no more reliable than a fraud result.

[NareshK]

nobody is whining, why are you getting worked up.it is not about the results, nobody cares about results. Pujara and Rahane will play against Anderson and co.It is not just me guys like Akash Chopra were also writing about Rahane's technique . Like that NZ series in 2002 which costed Laxman his dream of playing world cup , this series might cost Pujara his world cup chances.It may not matter to you but it surely matters to those players. To just say pitch was bad what happened does not matter is just ridiculous.

Rahane scored heavily in SA, NZ tests. Pujara also did in SA tests. Have you forgotten that quickly ? Pitches in England or elsewhere will never be this poor. This is just a very poorly prepared track which has uneven pace and bounce and movement off the track and that too in an ODI, you can't afford to play like a test and you have to try and score and that's where you tend to get out. Rahane scored well in 1st ODI and Pujara did well today. Why is it such a concern that they failed in a couple of ODIs.

[saneindian]

I called the views stupid because i have no time for the illogic of giving credence to dubious result and expecting great things out of batsmen in conditions where all sides could not get 120 THREE times. what part of it is so difficult to understand?

So expecting our younger batsmen to at least show a fight on a tough pitch is being illogical and stupid? Will say this again - look into a mirror

[Maratha]

They have been selecting the wrong batsmen. Jadhav, Samson deserves a chance in this sort o conditions. Instead we are hell bent on selecting the likes of Rayudu and Robin.

[putrevus]

its not about how good you are. This is about a dubious environment.In a dubious environment,results are dubious and its stupid to consider such results seriously. its logical to talk about merit when only when integrity has not been deeply affected . you mean cricket is played under conditions where teams are bowled for 58 and 100? Clarke 6 for 9, joshi had 5 for 1- if you think highly about these dubious figures, then no one can help you.these figures have no credibility with me.neither does binny. they are no more reliable than a fraud result.

everything does not have to be on perfect pitch otherwise the game would be boring. by dismissing those figures you are not giving credit to those guys for putting the ball where it needed on those pitches. that is my opinion you may differ which is fine. Gavaskar rates his 50 odd runs he scored against England either headingley or old trafford against Chris Old as one of his best innings as he said it was seaming and swinging all over the place.He faced bowlers who were much skilled and more potent in his career. Just dismissing pitch as substandard is just a cope out.

[putrevus]

Rahane scored heavily in SA, NZ tests. Pujara also did in SA tests. Have you forgotten that quickly ? Pitches in England or elsewhere will never be this poor. This is just a very poorly prepared track which has uneven pace and bounce and movement off the track and that too in an ODI, you can't afford to play like a test and you have to try and score and that's where you tend to get out. Rahane scored well in 1st ODI and Pujara did well today. Why is it such a concern that they failed in a couple of ODIs.

ok

[Lannister]

Uthappa - He certainly deserves more chance. I say drop either dhawan or rohith and play uthappa instead. Pujara - He's clearly not suited for odis' and should focus his game only on tests. He could become great asset in tests for India. Rahane - Not sure about this guy! Way too inconsistent. He needs to improve if he's ever hope to match with the guys like kohli. Rayudu - who is this guy anyway? How did he even make into the squad? There must be clearly better players than him out there. After seeing how karnataka played in the raniji series, I thought atleast one of the players would get into the squad. Seeing the selectors persisting with the same squad, maybe we are in for another drubbing over in england.

[vvvslaxman]

everything does not have to be on perfect pitch otherwise the game would be boring. by dismissing those figures you are not giving credit to those guys for putting the ball where it needed on those pitches. that is my opinion you may differ which is fine. Gavaskar rates his 50 odd runs he scored against England either headingley or old trafford against Chris Old as one of his best innings as he said it was seaming and swinging all over the place.He faced bowlers who were much skilled and more potent in his career. Just dismissing pitch as substandard is just a cope out.

Getting bowled out for 105 in one innings is fine. But two in row.. means there is something else going on.

[putrevus]

Getting bowled out for 105 in one innings is fine. But two in row.. means there is something else going on.

one time it happens but today most of them were playing as if it was a 20 over IPL match, swinging for fences, guys like Saha, Pujara and Rahane who should have displayed much better skills than they did today. Dhoni always wants to bat till last over and that is his biggest asset in odis he does not get flustered, thats what one of three should have displayed more of it.

[kubrickian]

one time it happens but today most of them were playing as if it was a 20 over IPL match' date=' swinging for fences,[b'] guys like Saha, Pujara and Rahane who should have displayed much better skills than they did today. Dhoni always wants to bat till last over and that is his biggest asset in odis he does not get flustered, thats what one of three should have displayed more of it.

Saha is a hack and so is Rayudu. They can score only on flat batting pitches in IPL. I always laugh when people say Saha can replace Dhoni. Uthappa can have problems with swing but he is a good attacking batsman that you need in ODIs which will be played on mostly flat tracks. You can't just go with too many slow batsmen like Pujara, Rahane, Rayudu in middle order. Rahane and Pujara are good batsmen but they just haven't been consistent in ODIs. Whether they can adapt and make a career for themselves in ODIs is anyone's guess.

[youngindia]

everything does not have to be on perfect pitch otherwise the game would be boring..

hardly any grown up adult is unaware that this is not perfect world. we are all conditioned to accepting umpiring errors, bowler friendly or batting friendly conditions,biased men as imperfections. however this does not go beyond a certain extent.if integrity and fairness is affected by more than 10%, people will start complaining.otherwise there is something wrong with us for a result to have credibility, imperfections should not be too huge. sides making 120 or less runs are hardly insignificant deviation from the average. its a huge huge deviation.

one is un dismissing those figures you are not giving credit to those guys for putting the ball where it needed on those pitches. that is my opinion you may differ which is fine.

its not about effort..its about merit...evaluation will suffer if results obtained under dubious circumstances are given credit. by giving credence to results obtained under substandard conditions,the evaluator undermines merit.its an insult to the truly meritorious and allows the more dubious to come up. we all pretty well know that joshi or Clarke or binny or tuffey are nowhere good as their figures suggest and they were all obtained under substandard conditions.they never became great or even good bowlers after their performances. is this a co incidence? if the team management persist binny for more than 20 matches based on this performance, they will be undermining merit

Gavaskar rates his 50 odd runs he scored against England either headingley or old trafford against Chris Old as one of his best innings as he said it was seaming and swinging all over the place.

keep in mind he made only 2 100's in England and was a bit inconsistent in that land but these 100's were regarded as some of his greatest knocks. Even the best and brightest can overcome environment only to a certain extent.Beyond a extent, the environment overcomes you. obviously you recognize no one is superman. In 200 par wicket, it means a batsman can overcome an adverse environment to a certain degree provided its his great day. in a 100 par wicket, the scope for overcoming the environment is way more severely limited and it almost comes to a lottery.its a case of the environment overwhelming you to a large degree. To compare a 200 par wicket and a 100 par wicket is not logical as a result . its ok as long as you tailor your expectations in a highly professional manner. no one minds a hard nosed professional. the problem with the views on this thread in my eyes is unrealistic expectations as if they are supposed to be super human. I find it unrealistic,emotional and unprofessional. I would think most decent cricket analysts would at most accept upto a 160 game(even that too occasionally). when both sides of a established test nation are bowled below 130, it would undermine the game's credibility.the more dubious can have inflated results. the more talented can be made to look bad

[div]

On most days you'd be forgiven for avoiding an India-Bangladesh encounter but if you call yourself an Indian cricket fan and want to know about India's future, you would do well to keep an eye on this three-match series. First match of the series saw a new opening combination of Uthappa and Rahane for India, and both of them impressed one and sundry. Even though they were asked to chase a modest total, both went about their business at a very brisk rate. That's the kind of stuff you'd keep an eye on, for it's not just about the runs one scores against Bangladesh but about the manOn most days you'd be forgiven for avoiding an India-Bangladesh encounter but if you call yourself an Indian cricket fan and want to know about India's future, you would do well to keep an eye on this three-match series. First match of the series saw a new opening combination of Uthappa and Rahane for India, and both of them impressed one and sundry. Even though they were asked to chase a modest total, both went about their business at a very brisk rate. That's the kind of stuff ner in which they're accumulated. Both openers ticked that box and went on to play match winning innings. The other thing you'd keep an eye on are the areas of concern for the newer players, for the moment you appear a few times at the International level, teams around the world start working overtime to find flaws. There was at least one area for both the openers that could be a possible area of concern. Uthappa has changed a few things in his batting in the last couple of years and that has brought about a positive change. Earlier his bottom hand used to dominate a lot and he would try to bludgeon the ball but now, he's using the top hand a lot more and also, trying to caress it. Earlier he had a very pronounced back and across movement as his trigger movement, which used to take him deep inside the crease and that in return kept him away from the full-pitched swinging deliveries. Now, he's started moving towards the ball and that allows him to play a lot straighter. Over 40% of the runs he scored in the IPL were in the V front of the wickets. But if there's one area that he'd like to tighten up and thats his play against the outswingers pitching outside off, for his front leg takes him a bit too across for his liking. Once the head and the front leg is placed outside-off, you lose sense of where your off-stump is and that's when you start fishing. In the first ODI even on a placid pitch he had trouble early on against Mushrafa. He'll do well to keep his head within the three stumps and it would automatically ensure that the front leg won't go far too across. As for Rahane, his Achilles Heal is his tendency to play across the the line early on. While he got away with it in the first ODI because of the lack of pace and movement off he pitch, he paid the price in the second ODI. The ball moved after pitching and Rahane, instead of playing straight, was guilty of playing across the line. Rahane will have to address this issue if he were to continue opening for India, especially in trying conditions.

http://www.starsports.com/cricket/columns/columnist=134/articleid=1337812/index.html