Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Khota]

7 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I'd say, if you got the motivation, you will do it.

Motivation is needed too. In the end two equally motivated guy and the one with right physical structure will always win.

[Khota]

7 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Didn't get the context. Are you trying to say that Umesh and co would bowl much quicker in 80's and 90's since there were less matches?

Fewer matches are good for bowlers. They will bowl better. MLB never allows a pitcher to pitch two consecutive games. They rest them.

[sandeep]

42 minutes ago, Khota said:

Fewer matches are good for bowlers. They will bowl better. MLB never allows a pitcher to pitch two consecutive games. They rest them.

Relief pitchers pitch back to back quite often - and they are around a pitch-count of around 30-40, which is more than 5 overs.   Rarely do teams play even T20s without a day gap.    Workload is more an issue for test matches, with 20 over days for the lead bowlers.  More for spinners.

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

I'm saying that there are very few bowlers like Umesh, who can bowl at top pace for extended periods of time through so much cricket.  Other bowlers will not be able to sustain it.   Probably would have bowled a bit faster on average if the amount of bowling was reduced.  I think Amir falls in that category...

Even Umesh can't do that day in day out. Although by our standards he's been amazing in that even after six years of playing cricket he has not lost significant pace. The only bowler who bowled consistently fast throughout his career regardless of workload IMO was Brett Lee. Consistently high average speeds fight upto the fag end of his career. Even Akhtar by 2004 oftentimes bowled at 135 kph average  in ODIs. 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Even Umesh can't do that day in day out. Although by our standards he's been amazing in that even after six years of playing cricket he has not lost significant pace. The only bowler who bowled consistently fast throughout his career regardless of workload IMO was Brett Lee. Consistently high average speeds fight upto the fag end of his career. Even Akhtar by 2004 oftentimes bowled at 135 kph average  in ODIs. 

M Sami was consistently quick too, but he bowled mostly tripe so it doesn't count.

[Khota]

4 hours ago, sandeep said:

Relief pitchers pitch back to back quite often - and they are around a pitch-count of around 30-40, which is more than 5 overs.   Rarely do teams play even T20s without a day gap.    Workload is more an issue for test matches, with 20 over days for the lead bowlers.  More for spinners.

They are relief. Not the same workload.

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Even Umesh can't do that day in day out. Although by our standards he's been amazing in that even after six years of playing cricket he has not lost significant pace. The only bowler who bowled consistently fast throughout his career regardless of workload IMO was Brett Lee. Consistently high average speeds fight upto the fag end of his career. Even Akhtar by 2004 oftentimes bowled at 135 kph average  in ODIs. 

Umesh has done it in tests, Shami as well. They bowl largely the same pace in ODI and tests which is commendable. 

 

Although by our standards - can you explain what standards you are talking about. Are you insinuating that Indian bowlers have a lower standard ?

[Nikhil_cric]

9 hours ago, Vilander said:

Umesh has done it in tests, Shami as well. They bowl largely the same pace in ODI and tests which is commendable. 

 

Although by our standards - can you explain what standards you are talking about. Are you insinuating that Indian bowlers have a lower standard ?

Not so much an insult.  But a lot of our bowlers tend to lose pace far too quickly. Umesh was the first one who started off as a genuine speedster and still bowls quick. 

[Rightarmfast]

35 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Not so much an insult.  But a lot of our bowlers tend to lose pace far too quickly. Umesh was the first one who started off as a genuine speedster and still bowls quick. 

How many years did Waqar bowl genuine quick? Or Wasim( If he ever did)?

[renjith]

waqar was extremely quick (expected to be 150+) only for 2 years: 90-91. he played for surrey during that period and alec stewart has said in an interview that waqar was the quickest he kept to. just before 1992 world cup he got a back injury and after that he could not produce extreme speeds but still quick enough. he got another back injury during 96 and after that his speed came down to 130-140 range.

akram was never an out and out pace bowler. but he could bowl quick (probably around 145) during his first 7-8 years. since his other skillsets were too good for any batsmen he never had to bowl quick to get wickets.

Edited May 20, 2017 by renjith

[Rightarmfast]

24 minutes ago, renjith said:

waqar was extremely quick (expected to be 150+) only for 2 years: 90-91. he played for surrey during that period and alec stewart has said in an interview that waqar was the quickest he kept to. just before 1992 world cup he got a back injury and after that he could not produce extreme speeds but still quick enough. he got another back injury during 96 and after that his speed came down to 130-140 range.

akram was never an out and out pace bowler. but he could bowl quick (probably around 145) during his first 7-8 years. since his other skillsets were too good for any batsmen he never had to bowl quick to get wickets.

The question was to @Nikhil_cric since he mentioned Indian bowlers loose pace quick. I know about their bowling speeds pretty well. btw, Wasim was not sharp ( cant use the word 'quick' for him) in the initial years of his career. He started off as a medium pace, military medium pace bowler.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Rightarmfast

[renjith]

7 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

The question was to @Nikhil_cric since he mentioned Indian bowlers loose pace quick. I know about their bowling speeds pretty well. btw, Wasim was not sharp ( cant use the word 'quick' for him) in the initial years of his career. He started off as a medium pace, military medium pace bowler.

ok

[rkt.india]

29 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

The question was to @Nikhil_cric since he mentioned Indian bowlers loose pace quick. I know about their bowling speeds pretty well. btw, Wasim was not sharp ( cant use the word 'quick' for him) in the initial years of his career. He started off as a medium pace, military medium pace bowler.

Wasim looks pretty quick. This is a video from 1986 Astral-asia cup final. Watch from 2:40 onwards.

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

37 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

The question was to @Nikhil_cric since he mentioned Indian bowlers loose pace quick. I know about their bowling speeds pretty well. btw, Wasim was not sharp ( cant use the word 'quick' for him) in the initial years of his career. He started off as a medium pace, military medium pace bowler.

Waqar was capable of cranking it up to 95 mph right until 1996. That is a good 6 years from 1990-1996. Wasim was capable of bowling quick until the 1997/98 season . That's almost 10 years considering that he was bowling quick as early as 1988. The only bowlers we've had who maintained their pace for atleast 5 years or so we're Srinath ,Yadav, Ishant and then to some extent Zaheer and Agarkar. On the the other hand, the bowlers who lost pace significantly  in very short time like Pathan,Munaf, RP Singh,Balaji and others had a very steep decline in pace. All were capable of clocking 140 or so and then began trundling in the 120's despite 

 

 

1. Not having a very heavy workload

2. Not even hitting 30 years of age 

 

 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Waqar was capable of cranking it up to 95 mph right until 1996. That is a good 6 years from 1990-1996. Wasim was capable of bowling quick until the 1997/98 season . That's almost 10 years considering that he was bowling quick as early as 1988. The only bowlers we've had who maintained their pace for atleast 5 years or so we're Srinath ,Yadav, Ishant and then to some extent Zaheer and Agarkar. On the the other hand, the bowlers who lost pace significantly  in very short time like Pathan,Munaf, RP Singh,Balaji and others had a very steep decline in pace. All were capable of clocking 140 or so and then began trundling in the 120's despite 

 

 

1. Not having a very heavy workload

2. Not even hitting 30 years of age 

 

 

Waqar was a trundler in 1996 world cup.

[Rightarmfast]

3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Waqar was capable of cranking it up to 95 mph right until 1996. That is a good 6 years from 1990-1996. Wasim was capable of bowling quick until the 1997/98 season . That's almost 10 years considering that he was bowling quick as early as 1988. The only bowlers we've had who maintained their pace for atleast 5 years or so we're Srinath ,Yadav, Ishant and then to some extent Zaheer and Agarkar. On the the other hand, the bowlers who lost pace significantly  in very short time like Pathan,Munaf, RP Singh,Balaji and others had a very steep decline in pace. All were capable of clocking 140 or so and then began trundling in the 120's despite 

 

 

1. Not having a very heavy workload

2. Not even hitting 30 years of age 

 

 

Waqar bowled quick till 93 and after that lost his pace. He made his debut in Nov 89, so thats about 3 yrs of pace. Wasim, if he did bowl express, bowled it in patches. He was never consistently quick. And no, Wasim wasnt clocking high speeds in 97-98. Not if you are trying to say 90mph, he wasnt at all. 

The Indian bowlers who you state not only lost their pace, they also lost their quality of bowling. So its clearly a lack of motivation. Munaf was the only genuinely quick bowler who lost his pace and its clear that he was happy with whatever he achieved in life. 

 

So this is a big misconception created that only Indian bowlers loose pace. It happens to almost all. 

[Rightarmfast]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Wasim looks pretty quick. This is a video from 1986 Astral-asia cup final. Watch from 2:40 onwards.

 

 

Yes, he looks around 90mph. This is the period that he started bowling sharp. He was medium pace before this. 

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Not so much an insult.  But a lot of our bowlers tend to lose pace far too quickly. Umesh was the first one who started off as a genuine speedster and still bowls quick. 

You are right, losing pace used to happen in the 2000s decade.

 

Munaf, RP and Sreesanth lost pace 

 

In the 2010s this has stopped. There is a lot of stress on stamina building and bowling at high pace throughout the day. Umesh and Aaron retain pace, after 5 years. Shami and Bhuvi have increased their pace. Even Ishant has become more consistemt in terms of pace. 

 

The most heartening part is that Umesh, Shami and Ishant are bowling quick even in the last spell of the day in test matches.

 

I think it has a lot to do with development of fast bowling culture in our country this decade.

Edited May 20, 2017 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

You are right, losing pace used to happen in the 2000s decade.

 

Munaf, RP and Sreesanth lost pace 

 

In the 2010s this has stopped. There is a lot of stress on stamina building and bowling at high pace throughout the day. Umesh and Aaron retain pace, after 5 years. Shami and Bhuvi have increased their pace. Even Ishant has become more consistemt in terms of pace. 

 

The most heartening part is that Umesh, Shami and Ishant are bowling quick even in the last spell of the day in test matches.

 

I think it has a lot to do with development of fast bowling culture in our country this decade.

I honestly think that loosing pace hasnt been exclusive to Indians.

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Waqar was a trundler in 1996 world cup.

He was clocked at 152 kph in England 1996 if I'm not mistaken. Hardly a trundler at that point. Yes he was no longer consistently fast like he was in his absolute peak but he was quick enough.