Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, New guy said:

No Sikhs or Muslims allowed in the team. Siraj will be phased out soon too like Shami

That team's test captain itself is a Sikh.

[vvvslaxman]

IPL quota supercedes everything. MSD picked many CSK players at the start. Since then it has been a practice. Now it is GT quota.  

 

Prasidh - GT

SIraj - GT

Gurnoor - GT

 

For years KKR team always had very little representation.  Kartik Tyagi looked the most impressive. He is not part of any squad. Ashok sharma already played. That fat yash thakur played. 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

3 hours ago, tweaker said:

Mastermind 

No mind bolo

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

IPL quota supercedes everything. MSD picked many CSK players at the start. Since then it has been a practice. Now it is GT quota.  

 

Prasidh - GT

SIraj - GT

Gurnoor - GT

 

For years KKR team always had very little representation.  Kartik Tyagi looked the most impressive. He is not part of any squad. Ashok sharma already played. That fat yash thakur played. 

 

Pardisha and Siraj has been part of Ind side for a long time nothing to do with Gt association.

Gurnoor may have been fast tracked and connection to gt may have helped but he is like is unicorn in Ind crkt system. He is tall and bowls fast. Mst Ind bowlers are either fast or tall. Those who are tall does not have pace and those who have pace are not that tall.

 

Ashok is fastest bowlers in Ind rt. now , he was amongst the top wkt takers in last Smat. 

 

The thing is GT has selected all the faster bowlers in Ind , they do not have anyone who can bat. But they have all the bowlers. Even Sushant Mishra was picked by GT later traded to RR

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

20 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Pardisha and Siraj has been part of Ind side for a long time nothing to do with Gt association.

Gurnoor may have been fast tracked and connection to gt may have helped but he is like is unicorn in Ind crkt system. He is tall and bowls fast. Mst Ind bowlers are either fast or tall. Those who are tall does not have pace and those who have pace are not that tall.

 

Ashok is fastest bowlers in Ind rt. now , he was amongst the top wkt takers in last Smat. 

 

The thing is GT has selected all the faster bowlers in Ind , they do not have anyone who can bat. But they have all the bowlers. Even Sushant Mishra was picked by GT later traded to RR

 

 

 

Prasdham has no business to be part of every format. Ther eis no way i am going to rate Ashok sharma over Kartik Tyagi. Sundar being part of every LOI set up has everything to do with GT connection. Same with Sai Sudarshan being part of the Test side. If they rate Gurnoor that much why didn't he get a single IPl game . Gurnoor was net bowler for MI. WHy didn't MI rate him and poach him? Hope he does well. But let us not pretend there is no politics in Indian team selection. Moshin has recovered from injury. Why didn't get the backing. He gets a lot of natural bounce even on Indian wickets.

[singhvivek141]

28 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Prasdham has no business to be part of every format. Ther eis no way i am going to rate Ashok sharma over Kartik Tyagi. Sundar being part of every LOI set up has everything to do with GT connection. Same with Sai Sudarshan being part of the Test side. If they rate Gurnoor that much why didn't he get a single IPl game . Gurnoor was net bowler for MI. WHy didn't MI rate him and poach him? Hope he does well. But let us not pretend there is no politics in Indian team selection. Moshin has recovered from injury. Why didn't get the backing. He gets a lot of natural bounce even on Indian wickets.

 

Gurnoor isnt a T20 bowler, like Prasidh he too relies on bounce. He has never performed in domestics in T20s..unless he is used for a specific role.

 

Predictability is the issue in T20s.

 

We saw how Mayank was thrashed in IPL, despite the fact that Mayank has an amazing control on his line & length.

 

Mohsin is a proper T20 bowler, but he needs to shed some weight. He is like Mohd Irfan of Pakistan, blessed but have severe stamina issues, which will multiply as they will age.

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Prasdham has no business to be part of every format. Ther eis no way i am going to rate Ashok sharma over Kartik Tyagi. Sundar being part of every LOI set up has everything to do with GT connection. Same with Sai Sudarshan being part of the Test side. If they rate Gurnoor that much why didn't he get a single IPl game . Gurnoor was net bowler for MI. WHy didn't MI rate him and poach him? Hope he does well. But let us not pretend there is no politics in Indian team selection. Moshin has recovered from injury. Why didn't get the backing. He gets a lot of natural bounce even on Indian wickets.

 

MI has been poor with getting top talent for some time now , they had mohsin on bench. There are reasons why they are not getting top Ind un-capped talent. They are bigger operation now. They have larger group of players/intnl players. Right now they want established players.  

 

Mohsin was unfit in this IPL as well played v.few games, also in the on-going upt20 he has played 1-2 games so far.

 

karthik has not played domestic season for longtime, unless he plays domestic he will not be selected due to his history of reoccurring injuries.

 

Yes sai an sundar are in the side due to gt connection.

 

The only new player who is getting the injury-pass is Mayank , that too because they think he can crank-up 150+ kmph regularly. If he does not and unable to secure a place in Ind side till then, he too will be out of favours.

 

As for Pradish -- yes only format suited to him is Odis, why is he playing all formats ??-- There are not many fit fast bowlers left. Share the names of 5 fast bowlers who can play tst right now. Ind wasted time with Mukesh/Avesh/Undkat etc... 

 

The other part is next 2 wcs are in SA and Aus+NZ and pradish was seen as one bowler who can be useful in those conditions even when kolhi was captain he was telling that they are seeing prasish who can play wc in Aus, but he was unfit  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Gurnoor isnt a T20 bowler, like Prasidh he too relies on bounce. He has never performed in domestics in T20s..unless he is used for a specific role.

 

Predictability is the issue in T20s.

 

We saw how Mayank was thrashed in IPL, despite the fact that Mayank has an amazing control on his line & length.

 

Mohsin is a proper T20 bowler, but he needs to shed some weight. He is like Mohd Irfan of Pakistan, blessed but have severe stamina issues, which will multiply as they will age.

WHy is he not a T20 bowler but a Test bowler? You have to do a lot more to become a test bowler. It is easy to be a T20 bowler.  He is not ODI owler either based on that.  Ishant , Irfan all played at the age of 19 as Test bowler without much experience.  You cannot conveniently someone is test bowler someone is T20 bowler based on our whims. As a matter of fact Gurnoor was net bowler for MI in 2019.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

MI has been poor with getting top talent for some time now , they had mohsin on bench. There are reasons why they are not getting top Ind un-capped talent. They are bigger operation now. They have larger group of players/intnl players. Right now they want established players.  

 

Mohsin was unfit in this IPL as well played v.few games, also in the on-going upt20 he has played 1-2 games so far.

 

karthik has not played domestic season for longtime, unless he plays domestic he will not be selected due to his history of reoccurring injuries.

 

Yes sai an sundar are in the side due to gt connection.

 

The only new player who is getting the injury-pass is Mayank , that too because they think he can crank-up 150+ kmph regularly. If he does not and unable to secure a place in Ind side till then, he too will be out of favours.

 

As for Pradish -- yes only format suited to him is Odis, why is he playing all formats ??-- There are not many fit fast bowlers left. Share the names of 5 fast bowlers who can play tst right now. Ind wasted time with Mukesh/Avesh/Undkat etc... 

 

The other part is next 2 wcs are in SA and Aus+NZ and pradish was seen as one bowler who can be useful in those conditions even when kolhi was captain he was telling that they are seeing prasish who can play wc in Aus, but he was unfit  

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't need to play a lot of domestic game if you are going to back someone based on height and pace. It is not like GUrnoor has played 50 FC games. He was not even into cricket in his early days.  Tyagi came through ranks. Irfan pathan as a 20 year old bowled 50 overs in an innings of a test match.  Tyagi was not even picekd for T20. Why does he have to play first class to be selected for T20. But prasdham played T20. So there is a lot of inconsistency in selection. It is not a shock. We have seen guys like Gony playing internationals.

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

You don't need to play a lot of domestic game if you are going to back someone based on height and pace. It is not like GUrnoor has played 50 FC games. He was not even into cricket in his early days.  Tyagi came through ranks. Irfan pathan as a 20 year old bowled 50 overs in an innings of a test match.  Tyagi was not even picekd for T20. Why does he have to play first class to be selected for T20. But prasdham played T20. So there is a lot of inconsistency in selection. It is not a shock. We have seen guys like Gony playing internationals.

 

Tyagi's case if diff he has hardly played any domestic cricket since the days of U-19 , is he high potential bowler --yes. but you need to prove that you can remain fit for the entire season, no one can do anything with on-field injuries but players can not be injured during the series. No one these days like to have a injury prone player in the side.

He has not even played smat , even in ipl he was in the playing 11 because all the kkr bowlers got injured.

 

Coaches/Tm/Bowling coaches/team doctor all come under lot of pressure if someone becomes injured ,its not the old time when bowler was not fully fit than still goes on to play the games. These days questions are raised as soon as speeds drops or performances dip. You are seeing this in this thread itself ppl are questioning siraj , bumrah was questioned in ipl this season.

 

As for not needing to play alot of domestic -- this is right specially for faster bowlers, it causes more harm to play lot of domestic for faster bowlers. But they need to have some domestic experience it makes their actions repeatable , gives them the taste of diff phases of game , develop stock delivery, ability to control lengths in game situations.

 

Gony played intnl because he was csk player and dhoni was the captain of Ind side. 

 

Is there inconsistency in selection --yes , there will always be some inconsistency. If fr fans they think nabi should have been picked before gurnoor , some even want bhuvi and shami back its how someone looks at the situation.

 

Current situation is Ind does not have 4/5 fsster bowlers to select from who have good injury free record.

 

Mayank -- They are trying to build him as a bowler, giving him few t20is to build his strength and pace back

Bhumrah -- Can not play all the games and you want him in at big stages

Ashok-- Selected in t20is , but is injured now

Tyagi-- Coming back from injury, hope he stays fit and fast to be selected

umran--out of favours not even getting into domestic side

rana--injured and recovering

mohsin-injured not even playing full upt20 season 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26 by tapandrun

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Tyagi's case if diff he has hardly played any domestic cricket since the days of U-19 , is he high potential bowler --yes. but you need to prove that you can remain fit for the entire season, no one can do anything with on-field injuries but players can not be injured during the series. No one these days like to have a injury prone player in the side.

He has not even played smat , even in ipl he was in the playing 11 because all the kkr bowlers got injured.

 

Coaches/Tm/Bowling coaches/team doctor all come under lot of pressure if someone becomes injured ,its not the old time when bowler was not fully fit than still goes on to play the games. These days questions are raised as soon as speeds drops or performances dip. You are seeing this in this thread itself ppl are questioning siraj , bumrah was questioned in ipl this season.

 

As for not needing to play alot of domestic -- this is right specially for faster bowlers, it causes more harm to play lot of domestic for faster bowlers. But they need to have some domestic experience it makes their actions repeatable , gives them the taste of diff phases of game , develop stock delivery, ability to control lengths in game situations.

 

Gony played intnl because he was csk player and dhoni was the captain of Ind side. 

 

Is there inconsistency in selection --yes , there will always be some inconsistency. If fr fans they think nabi should have been picked before gurnoor , some even want bhuvi and shami back its how someone looks at the situation.

 

Current situation is Ind does not have 4/5 fsster bowlers to select from who have good injury free record.

 

Mayank -- They are trying to build him as a bowler, giving him few t20is to build his strength and pace back

Bhumrah -- Can not play all the games and you want him in at big stages

Ashok-- Selected in t20is , but is injured now

Tyagi-- Coming back from injury, hope he stays fit and fast to be selected

umran--out of favours not even getting into domestic side

rana--injured and recovering

mohsin-injured not even playing full upt20 season 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He played whole IPL season which is good enough to be considered for T20Is.  He was impressive. SUndar had no played first class game for 3 or 4 years when he was picked for gabba test. Practically no experience.If they can throw Gurnoor in the deep end based on "eye test" same should be done to Tyagi. We have example for all kind of weird selections. I bet Gurnoor would not have been picked had he played for KKR.

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

Tyagi's case if diff he has hardly played any domestic cricket since the days of U-19 , is he high potential bowler --yes. but you need to prove that you can remain fit for the entire season, no one can do anything with on-field injuries but players can not be injured during the series. No one these days like to have a injury prone player in the side.

He has not even played smat , even in ipl he was in the playing 11 because all the kkr bowlers got injured.

 

Coaches/Tm/Bowling coaches/team doctor all come under lot of pressure if someone becomes injured ,its not the old time when bowler was not fully fit than still goes on to play the games. These days questions are raised as soon as speeds drops or performances dip. You are seeing this in this thread itself ppl are questioning siraj , bumrah was questioned in ipl this season.

 

As for not needing to play alot of domestic -- this is right specially for faster bowlers, it causes more harm to play lot of domestic for faster bowlers. But they need to have some domestic experience it makes their actions repeatable , gives them the taste of diff phases of game , develop stock delivery, ability to control lengths in game situations.

 

Gony played intnl because he was csk player and dhoni was the captain of Ind side. 

 

Is there inconsistency in selection --yes , there will always be some inconsistency. If fr fans they think nabi should have been picked before gurnoor , some even want bhuvi and shami back its how someone looks at the situation.

 

Current situation is Ind does not have 4/5 fsster bowlers to select from who have good injury free record.

 

Mayank -- They are trying to build him as a bowler, giving him few t20is to build his strength and pace back

Bhumrah -- Can not play all the games and you want him in at big stages

Ashok-- Selected in t20is , but is injured now

Tyagi-- Coming back from injury, hope he stays fit and fast to be selected

umran--out of favours not even getting into domestic side

rana--injured and recovering

mohsin-injured not even playing full upt20 season 

 

 

 

Mayank NZ, Tyagi CZ, Tarmale WZ and Eden SZ should have been picked for Duleep Trophy. 

 

Workload is not high for pacers with spinners lifting the heavy load. 

 

 

Edited August 27 by express bowling

[tapandrun]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Mayank NZ, Tyagi CZ, Tarmale WZ and Eden SZ should gave been picked for Duleep Trophy. 

 

Workload is not high for pacers with spinners lifting the heavy load. 

 

 

Hardly played FC to be selected, selecting them is hard when they have not played any fc games. the backlash on nabi non-selection was massive, do not think selectors will be that adventurous.

 

Specially when zonal selection means selecting the best performers from fc for that season. And none of these players have played any sc game.

 

What you need is a special challenger trophy like tournament.

  

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Hardly played FC to be selected, selecting them is hard when they have not played any fc games. the backlash on nabi non-selection was massive, do not think selectors will be that adventurous.

 

Specially when zonal selection means selecting the best performers from fc for that season. And none of these players have played any sc game.

 

What you need is a special challenger trophy like tournament.

  

 

 

What have Sooryavanshi, Mukesh and Arshdeep done ?  Kamboj was mediocre too.

 

There are many such selections. 

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He played whole IPL season which is good enough to be considered for T20Is.  He was impressive. SUndar had no played first class game for 3 or 4 years when he was picked for gabba test. Practically no experience.If they can throw Gurnoor in the deep end based on "eye test" same should be done to Tyagi. We have example for all kind of weird selections. I bet Gurnoor would not have been picked had he played for KKR.

gurnoor has played 19 fc games and tyagi just 4 , tyagi has played under 25 List A games and he has been in the system for so long.

They called him in NCA as they did with Gurnoor, may be looking into him as well , there is potential in him but he needs to play cricket. Can not be selected based on few good games in IPL.

 

Again Sundar's selection in any format is not justified , he was present there at right place and right time. Ashwin retires then there was search fr an off-spinner who can bat.

Kotian  and others were options, but sundar has played for Ind before and was playing Ipl. kotian and others are not even getting picked in ipl.

 

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

What have Sooryavanshi, Mukesh and Arshdeep done ?  Kamboj was mediocre too.

 

There are many such selections. 

 

 

 

Arshdeep, Vaibhav and Kambooj are Ind intl , if they put up their names they will be selected. Mukesh C ?? Think he played this season in domestics.

 

Zonal selection are like that, that why need challenger kind of tournament, where local selectors do not have much say. Issue is with that too they will select same players.

Why is shardul playing , they didnt pick saini that is welcoming change else they were picking him for A tours rather than developing new bowlers

 

[singhvivek141]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

WHy is he not a T20 bowler but a Test bowler? You have to do a lot more to become a test bowler. It is easy to be a T20 bowler.  He is not ODI owler either based on that.  Ishant , Irfan all played at the age of 19 as Test bowler without much experience.  You cannot conveniently someone is test bowler someone is T20 bowler based on our whims. As a matter of fact Gurnoor was net bowler for MI in 2019.

 

Shami is a World Class Test bowler, but come to T20s and he isnt. 

For T20s you need defensive lines, gimmicky bowling, specially during death overs when batters are set. 

 

Gurnoor, Prasidh, Shami bowl attacking lines, into the batters for wkts...in T20s (or specifically IPL) the couple of mishits can effectively ruin their spells and in turn lose the match for the team.

 

Bumrah is the only one who has all the variations...gimmicky balls, yorkers, bouncers, hard length. 

 

Likes of Hazelwood, Cummins arent very good T20 bowlers, but they excel in Tests. Hazelwood though has improved as he has gained experience.

[ind_hyd1]

Saw a Instagram reel from Rajasthan Royals claiming that Tushar Deshpande bowled at 153 kmph in the recent Duleep trophy  Is it correct?

 

[tweaker]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Tyagi's case if diff he has hardly played any domestic cricket

 

Then how Mayank Yadav was preferred in T20.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Arshdeep, Vaibhav and Kambooj are Ind intl , if they put up their names they will be selected. Mukesh C ?? Think he played this season in domestics.

 

 

Mayank in India International too. 

 

Tarmale and Eden have played FC this season. 

 

Tyagi is a well known name and such names are not challenged if picked for Zone.