Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Suhaan said:

Arey with WC squad in mind

सड़ेजा is void in lois

yes there only. Can still make replacements. Otherwise Axar seems best choice.

[express bowling]

Fastest by Indians today against Pakistan 

 

Siraj            147 kph

Bumrah     144 kph

Hardik.      140 kph

 

 

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

Shaheen  79 runs off 10 overs ! 

 

Well done !     

 

 

Looks like he was down on speeds, this is the difference when batter has to face 145+ and 135-143.

[tapandrun]

Do not want to stir any conspiracy but Its too often that Pak bowlers gets injured when they do not do well in the match/game.

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Looks like he was down on speeds, this is the difference when batter has to face 145+ and 135-143.

 

These days Shaheen is bowling 131 k to 143 k in a lot of matches. 

[tapandrun]

19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

These days Shaheen is bowling 131 k to 143 k in a lot of matches. 

He may struggle if he keeps operating at that pace, most of his wkts comes on fuller/yorkish balls.

 

Not much of a indipper, bouncers or with the angle balls in his repertoire 

[singhvivek141]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

yes there only. Can still make replacements. Otherwise Axar seems best choice.

28th is the final cutoff.

 

Hope better sense prevails..both Jadeja & Axar makes no sense in the team. Coz neither of them will bowl if there is a leftie at the crease.

 

Even Ashwin is a good choice on grounds like Chennai & Lucknow. 

[MediumPacer]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Bangar now asking Waqar whether Indians are getting more swing as they are slower than Pakistanis. 

 

Speed Gun is there.

 

It showed Bumrah and Siraj swinging the ball at 135 k to 145 k.

 

But all this bugger can see is Shardul bowling 130 to 136 k.

 

What is wrong with the Indian cricket fraternity !!  They just want to promote Indian pacers as slow even when facts show otherwise.

Shardul and Hardik were bowling wobble seam not swing,the balls that got babar and rizwan went off the pitch but likes of bangar think it was swing.

 

 

And why wasnt bangar such great bowler? he used to bowl gently.

[Suhaan]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Bangar now asking Waqar whether Indians are getting more swing as they are slower than Pakistanis. 

 

Speed Gun is there.

 

It showed Bumrah and Siraj swinging the ball at 135 k to 145 k.

 

But all this bugger can see is Shardul bowling 130 to 136 k.

 

What is wrong with the Indian cricket fraternity !!  They just want to promote Indian pacers as slow even when facts show otherwise.

All they promote is Pakistan fast bowling,Indian batting

When things have not remained same as it was before,they live in the past look at England,BD they didn't have genuine pacer before

Now England has one of the fastest attacks,BD has two three guys clocking 140

But India for them is all about Boobie type swing bowlers,gira gira ke maarna chahiye inn bhosdivalo ko match ke baad

[singhvivek141]

26 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

All they promote is Pakistan fast bowling,Indian batting

When things have not remained same as it was before,they live in the past look at England,BD they didn't have genuine pacer before

Now England has one of the fastest attacks,BD has two three guys clocking 140

But India for them is all about Boobie type swing bowlers,gira gira ke maarna chahiye inn bhosdivalo ko match ke baad

I think part of blame lies with the brand value which these batters offer.

Indian Cricket heroes has mostly been batters, while we have produced some great quicks in the past ...they mostly have introvertish personality which our "youth" don't like and is not marketable. 

 

Pak has reverse, their good batters like Inzi, Youhana, Younis all have boring & quiet personalities...so their chhapri youth feel attracted to fake machoism of their bowling quicks.

 

Sponsors know what sells, and that's what they try to feed to the audience. Gullible school/college going youth which play a big role in the SM advertisement gets attracted to this extrovertish behavior.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by singhvivek141

[express bowling]

53 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I think part of blame lies with the brand value which these batters offer.

Indian Cricket heroes has mostly been batters, while we have produced some great quicks in the past ...they mostly have introvertish personality which our "youth" don't like and is not marketable. 

 

Pak has reverse, their good batters like Inzi, Youhana, Younis all have boring & quiet personalities...so their chhapri youth feel attracted to fake machoism of their bowling quicks.

 

Sponsors know what sells, and that's what they try to feed to the audience. Gullible school/college going youth which play a big role in the SM advertisement gets attracted to this extrovertish behavior.

 

 

 

But why do Indian quicks have to be put down in an attempt to promote Indian batters  ?? 

 

Why can't both happen simultaneously  ?

[express bowling]

Gambhir and Irfan always promote Indian quicks. Even Gavaskar does. 

 

And it was good to see Manjrekar point out the high speeds of Bumrah and Siraj for a change, till now in this Asia Cup. 

 

But there are always some pr*cks like Karthick and Bangar who are trying to put down Indian quicks.

 

Marketing the pace of Indian quicks is very essential if we want next gen guys to bowl quick and bowl well. 

[Rightarmfast]

I got the feeling Bangar was trying to get Waqar committing that slow bowling is more effective. Waqar gave a solid reply. I dont think it was to put down Indian bowlers, but it was just to promote the slower military medium bowlers into the team. sifarishi bowlers.

But he got it bad from Waqar. 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

, but it was just to promote the slower military medium bowlers into the team.

 

What is the need to do this  ?

[tapandrun]

Mediocracy breeds and promotes Mediocracy. Do not think/believe in only great player can be great coaches, even a nobody can be a great coach.

 

Ind cricketing structure is like that coaches promotes batters to get 100s and big hundreds, no one coaches bowlers to take 5fer/sixfer taking down a batting on their own.

In Indn cricket this (promoting bowlers to take 5fer) only happened under Virath and Sastri.

 

Also in Ind they do not have understanding how to create a bowling attack, They try to pick bowler and ask then to bowl at random no.s . Not all bowlers are good/comfortable/confident to be no. 1/2 bowler they could be gr8 no.3/4 bowler. Under kolhi Ind realized that but now again they are going back to same old ways.

 

Plus Ind commentators and ex-players are lazy do not read enough books or improve vocabulary and use same old cliches (faster it comes faster it goes, Fast bowling scares no1 but the swing and seams does and few other statements on the same lines ).

 

Read somewhere-Eng. has been developing or have a program to promote and develop quick bowler for last 3/4 years now, they are using some different type of speedometer like something used in Tennis, they call upon blowers who  are bowling fast or have the potential to bowl fast then measure their speeds and they keep monitoring their progress in domestics

 

Additionally innovation is restricted in Ind crckt - Do not think bowler like Malinga would have made into Ind team without altering this action.

Edited September 12, 2023 by tapandrun

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

I got the feeling Bangar was trying to get Waqar committing that slow bowling is more effective. Waqar gave a solid reply. I dont think it was to put down Indian bowlers, but it was just to promote the slower military medium bowlers into the team. sifarishi bowlers.

But he got it bad from Waqar. 

Agree, the comment imo was not necessarily that bowling slow is preferable. It was to ask him whether more pace through the air has as much of an effect when the ball is jagging around. it wasn't swing so he was wrong, seam movement at high speeds is possible. When the ball swings staying around or below 140 is better as the ball has more time to swing before it reaches the batsman. Even Steyn used to crank it up only when there was no swing on offer.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

What is the need to do this  ?

I don't know if I should say this, but because we're trained to be the follower and not an adventurer/explorer.

 

From the childhood, we're taught to be in discipline and agree to whatever is taught to us without questioning, innovation is not at all promoted. Even in the cricket club where I used to go, coaches/trainers used to tell bowlers to go slow and try to hit same spot consistently, during the matches as well, the line length medium pace bowlers were given first priority while the bowlers who were a bit erratic but fast, were often used as second or third change fast bowlers.

 

That's why you will hardly see bowlers with unorthodox actions in Indian cricket, every commentator/cricket expert has a rota memory of line and length when talking about pace bowling. Even in batting, you will see a preference for "technically correct" batsman, no matter how much he suck in reality (Smith vs Rahane is a prime example).

 

Now, as were developing, we are becoming little courageous to try out new things. Likes of Bumrah are lucky that his coaches didn't try to mould his action, while there are examples where pacers were advised in their young age by the coaches to bowl spin because "India me spin hi chalta hai, fast bowlers maar khate hai".

Edited September 12, 2023 by singhvivek141

[Mesky99]

10 hours ago, tapandrun said:

He may struggle if he keeps operating at that pace, most of his wkts comes on fuller/yorkish balls.

 

Not much of a indipper, bouncers or with the angle balls in his repertoire 

He is one dimensional, even in test cricket with the old bowl he has been dominated by the likes of liton das, shakib, his deliveries don't quite get the skid which bumrah, Naseem, shami get, let's see how good the Pak back up pacers are.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

Agree, the comment imo was not necessarily that bowling slow is preferable. It was to ask him whether more pace through the air has as much of an effect when the ball is jagging around. it wasn't swing so he was wrong, seam movement at high speeds is possible. When the ball swings staying around or below 140 is better as the ball has more time to swing before it reaches the batsman. Even Steyn used to crank it up only when there was no swing on offer.

 

My impression was that Bangar was asking Waqar whether the ball.swings more at lesser pace. And in an attempt to do that, he said that Pakistani pacers are quicker in the air and hence got less swing maybe.

 

My points are as follows ... 

 

1. Bumrah got the highest degree of swing among the 8 pacers on show yesterday. It was shown on TV. And he is the quickest pacer from India and only Rauf is distinctly quicker than him from Pakistan. Yesterday Bumrah got big swing with a lot of 143 k and 142 k balls.

 

2. Naseem got significant swing with a lot of 142 k snd 143 k balls too. 

 

3. Swing at 140 k+ often results in late swing, which is far more difficult to handle than banana swing from the hand at medium pace. 

 

 

But so many older Indian ex-cricketers just like to beleive that swing can happen only at 130 k even when facts show otherwise. 

 

And they always like to believe that Indians are slower, less powerful and more gentle .... even if facts show otherwise.

 

The new India, of the last 15 to 20 years, is about assuming leadership, being powerful and charting our own destiny. I just love it and hate the old school mentality, outlined above, of cherishing the image of meek Indians.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by express bowling

[rollingstoned]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

My impression was that Bangar was asking Waqar whether the ball.swings more at lesser pace. And in an attempt to do that, he said that Pakistani pacers are quicker in the air and hence got less swing maybe.

 

My points as follows ... 

 

1. Bumrah got the highest degree of swing among the 8 pacers on show yesterday. It was shown on TV. And he is the quickest pacer from India and only Rauf is distinctly quicker than him from Pakistan. Yesterday Bumrah got big swing with a lot of 143 k and 142 k balls.

 

2. Naseem got significant swing with a lot of 142 k snd 143 k balls too. 

 

3. Swing at 140 k+ often results in late swing, which is far more difficult to handle than banana swing from the hand at medium pace. 

 

 

But so many older Indian ex-cricketers just like to beleive that swing can happen only at 130 k even when facts show otherwise. 

 

And they always like to believe that Indians are slower, less powerful and more gentle .... even if facts show otherwise.

 

The new India of the last 15 to 20 years is about assuming leadership, being powerful and charting our own destiny. I just love it and hate the old school mentality, outlined above, of cherishing the image of meek Indians.

 

 

 

 

Hah yes, even when Pakistan were bowling yday Bangar said that the extra pace they are offering is helping the Indian batsmen score faster. Taking pace off the ball is among the stalest of commentary cliches.