G_B_ Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Even though he did not get a wicket today he was extracting sharp turn This guy is a classic offie. Varies his pace and flight. Thats it. Why is he bowling better than the likes of Ashwin? Much better. Lyon has been the sole reason why India lost the first test. Do India need a spin coach who is a foreigner who can tell our bowlers what to do outside the sub with different balls?
rkt.india Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 beating batsmen in loop, flight, and dip that he gets, never seen Ashwin doing that on this tour. He is a classical off spinner. Ashwin isnt. Spin too depends a lot on right seam position which Lyon has, Ashwin does not.
rkt.india Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I feel Parvez Rasool would have done better than Ashwin who is also a classical off spinner and could have used rough better than Ashwin.
sylon Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 In the last 15 odd years (post Rajesh Chawhan days) the only Indian spinner that I saw turn the ball consistently was Sachin Tendulkar. He really gave his leg-breaks and offies a rip! Rest have been inconsistent bounce bullies. No sharp turners, and I think Mr Kumble started that trend of spinners that rely on bounce and speeds rather than turn. We need a sharp turner! All Aussie spinners since Warne even the not so great ones have turned the ball consistently. I mean all of these i would say are better than recent Indian spinners - Macgill, Brad Hogg and now Nathan Lyon is doing it too.
G_B_ Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 raises the question who are the classic offies in India? people who get turn.
Kalia_Test Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Home conditions, better used to pitches and the ball, huge scores behind him, coming after their pacers have bowled well - all are factors. When you have all pacers leaking runs before you and from the other end, you tend to not be so attacking.
rkt.india Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 raises the question who are the classic offies in India? people who get turn. Finding off spinners in domestic cricket these days is very difficult. Most teams mainly play 1 spinner due pitches being favoring seamers and that spinner will be most often a left arm spinner who can bowl defensively.
youngindia Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The basic difference is subcontinent pitches tend to be dry, with good purchase and with SG balls. the wickets outside asia tend to be "skiddy" and mostly uses the kookaburra. our spinners hate the kookaburra.kumble practiced a lot with the kookaburra and increased his output since 2003.as a support bowler only bhajji also contributed in nz and sa in 2010. our spinners need to chip in with some wkts for us to have overseas wins. this is where the real problems are...not with 5 bowlers, allrounders and other useless issues.
pindxb Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 It is the line and the loop that they bowl that makes the difference. Ashwin's line is closer to off and middle whereas Lyon starts an extra stump outside off and the loop makes it a lot more difficult to determine the amount of turn. With Ashwin's line you dont have to worry about being beaten outside off or whether you are leaving a gap between bat and pad..
kosingh Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Fast bowlers who can't bowl cast, and spinners who can't spin the ball. And if the occasional fast bowler comes along who can bow l,fast -- or a spinner comes along who can bowl spin -- they have absolutely no control over anything.
rkt.india Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Fast bowlers who can't bowl cast, and spinners who can't spin the ball. And if the occasional fast bowler comes along who can bow l,fast -- or a spinner comes along who can bowl spin -- they have absolutely no control over anything. I will take such bowlers any day If I am a coach or captain and make them work hard in the nets to get that half decent control, but unfortunately, people concerned dont seam too bothered about it.
CoverDrive Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 many teams nowadays are investing in spin bowling coaches. we have some of the best retired spinners we should make use of them. our spinners got outbowled by Eng at Home - that has to be a new low.
vvvslaxman Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 In the last 15 odd years (post Rajesh Chawhan days) the only Indian spinner that I saw turn the ball consistently was Sachin Tendulkar. He really gave his leg-breaks and offies a rip! Rest have been inconsistent bounce bullies. No sharp turners' date=' and I think Mr Kumble started that trend of spinners that rely on bounce and speeds rather than turn. We need a sharp turner! All Aussie spinners since Warne even the not so great ones have turned the ball consistently. I mean all of these i would say are better than recent Indian spinners - Macgill, Brad Hogg and now Nathan Lyon is doing it too.[/quote'] Rajesh sadly would have been banned in this era. Yea bye tried to turn bi g always.
G_B_ Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 I remember Raju too used to give it a rip or was it Joshi? The point is I feel all these mystery balls for T20 and line and length crap. Thats not to say Lyon is world class. Did not do well in the UAE. Even Shane warne sucked in India which is supposed to help spinners but prospered in Aus. There must be some other factors involved. This is why we need a foreign spinning coach. Somebody like say a Swann who knows how to operate outside the sub
sandeep Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Also Keep in mind that Lyon has had the perfect platform to come in and bowl - with big totals behind him and the match situation already putting batsmen under pressure.
vvvslaxman Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Ashwin is not a classical offie. He will not be any different. He has this strange front on action which will restrict him from turning square. Lyon is more like swann. Axhar, Jaddu both don't turn as well. Ojha turns better than these 3. But he is a chucker. So we have to scout for a spinner who can turn on any surface.
Cricket_Hacker Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Ash bowls very defensive lines outside Asia,middle and leg
asterix Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Our bowlers are IPL mould defensive bowlers.. Leave them alone...
rkt.india Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Our bowlers are IPL mould defensive bowlers.. Leave them alone... Lyon is also a T20 product, came into limelight through T20.
putrevus Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Craig from NZ showed how important spinner is on fifth day for winning matches as did Lyon in first test. Both Ashwin and Jadeja had big scores to back them but could not do anything in SA and NZ.Spinner chipping in with some wickets is totally absent from this Indian team.
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